Jedi Archive
Thread: Jedi in the Combat Upgrade
Page 11 of 11
Chauncey98
Sun Mar 27, 2005 10:38 pm
#131
I think alot of you should keep a few things inmind.
1. For a long time now the general concencus is that SOE feels there are already too many Jedi. They are probably going to make it much much worse before it gets better. (Pub 9, FRS, Broken Mods, New Tef System, etc...) Think of it like their goal is to make Jedi so unbearable that most people DON'T WANT to play it. Which certainly would fulfill their original statement about a biological system to limit Jedi.
2. On the other hand, these people have to realize if they screw up another big publish like this most of them are out of a job. Or at least out a game title. It certainly doesn't take a full team to support a game with only a small fraction of the numbers they used to have. Have a little faith (As much as I hate to say that in reference to SoE) in this. I would be willing to bet on any given server 15-20 percent of the active population is currently a Jedi or working to become one. Of those 15-20 percent I would bet well over half of them have multiple accounts to support themselves. Now account for the veteran population who plays with these people and consider them friends many of which would probably soon quit if their friends were suddenly gone. We are talking about roughly 1/3 of every server, at least. Too many of these people have been through nerf after nerf, bug after bug, lack of content, and a recent dramatic decrease in player activity and PvP (Which happens to be basically the sole remaining aspect of a Knights game) and they will not put up with much more. If they screw the pooch on this one for us too bad, in the long run I think it could be bye bye SWG.
3. Has anyone actually officially said that anything was going to change as far as Jedi dmg? LS dmg? defenses? SP re-allocation? Do you honestly think they could change the entire code of the combat system and not change Jedi a bit? His post said there were going to be some changes, but that was it. That is inevitable. The simple fact that the HAM system is changing in any wayabsolutely requires changes to be made to Jedi. Just because changes have to be made doesn't necissarily mean it is going to drasticaly revamp the Jedi again. For all we know the changes they say are coming could be a change in the description of the attacks and focusing them all on health. (Not likely, but possible)
I don't know. I have readevery postin this thread, and though there are alot of really good questions and concerns, it seems most of you just like to whine, which is kind of sad considering the amount of information which actually has been released. Sometimes when I read this forum I almost miss perma-death, it would certainly thin out the crowd a bit.
Jab-Ra
Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:23 am
#133
Lol the sad thing is, if im understanding this right....my alt i can respec to make a MBH? And just by doing that ishould be as powerful as my jedi knight? Seems pretty dumb to me....unless they are doing something to put alot of power in the FRS i for one would have rather never even had a Jedi.
ReylandKrane
Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:52 am
#134
Has anyone mentioned if they will let full template Jedi Sentinels or Knights reallocate their skill points if they have negative Jedi experience?
I feel it unfair that they design a system for a Jedi Knight to be forced to PvP to gain status in the Ranks, not to mention always being overt, then lose massive Jedi xp upon being deathblowed by a Bounty Hunter, only to have to possibly end up grinding it out to get the skills the Jedi already has pre-CU.
If this happens, there will be a lot of upset Jedi Knights and above...
Cranial
Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:54 am
#135
Jab-Ra said:
i for one would have rather never even had a Jedi.
________________________
Could this be the point to the CU? The complete destruction of Jedi in SWG would be the only way to balance combat. If you make MBH so powerfull as to be a match for a Jedi Knight then they will dominate in PvP against all other professions. Is this balance? I think not.
Respectfully Submitted
Dr. Cranial Vapor
UNKnown
tezzla
Mon Mar 28, 2005 10:14 am
#136
First off seems no one actually read the CU release info by blair, it was glanced at and picked a few words you did not like and made them into a statement rather then the actual statement that was made.
1. It was stated rather clearly that the combat profesions WOULD be seeing changes and jedi WAS specifically listed as one of those profesions.
2. The afor mentioned profesions WOULD go through a respec. this was not listed as a maybe or might it it was stated they WILL be respeced.
Everyone seems to be ignoreing the fact that in the past when a statement was made with the all encompasing ALL WEAPONS statement, its proposed changes never affected LS or there damage. The fact of the matter is we simply dont know at this point and leads one to belive (if there thinking) that this is undecided or unknown at this time. Maybe it willaffect it maybe not but, based on past statements we have no facts either way.
The questions that should be asked that WERE mentoned in the CU by blair are not being asked such as,
1. It WAS stated that soloing a rancor or other high end stuffwill NOT be possible and friend or two will be needed to take out some of the higher stuff, does this mean that lower lvl jedi still tring to get there temp done are going to be stuck with tring to get the xp grinding kreetles as afriend or two will get them killed ?
2 . If padiwansARE to be stuck with grinding lower lvl creatures to gain xp will there be anything done to make it worth there time? the grind up jedi skills is already a painfully long process (as it should be) but, under the CU will it be worth it?
3. As I stated above we dont actually know yet about LS damage but, the statement it will go away leads one to wonder,Whats the point in being a jedi ifthe only wepon I can use only does one type of damage considering it was stated in th CU you will have to choose weapon and armor/defense based on what you choose tofight? if iam stuck with one weapon at one type of damage seems this will leave me out of some battles or content.
4. Will jedipadiwans get any actually defense in there robes? If everyone has defense against my weapon basically makeing it useless illneed defenses to live long enough to run away.
I doint think a padiwan should be able to own everything but, makeing a padiwan no better then your average new toon is just wrong, to become a padiwan is not like walking intoa marksmans shop and start training you have to prove your self worthy andstrong so why is it that after you fight off hords off things and go through a bunch of trials to prove your better then average you are left with a sub-standard char to go out and face more potential friction then anyone else? makes no sense. If not able to kill attackers you shoiuld at minimum be able to last longer then a few seconds when the super stacked ultra elite toon comes after you to think this people WONT hunt the easy mark is just foolish on behalf of the devs.
Will this change ? I doubt it they seem set on yelling balance and then leaveing new jedi seriously unbalanced, works out to, you bust your butt to atain this goal of becomeing a jedi padiwan now, you are forced to hide from all your friends as they will with out choice make a BH come after you that you have no hope in hell of even escapeing from.
I live with these things cause I enjoy the battle and seeing the blade but i would like to participate in my guild stuff which i am restricted from until next year some time when the temp plate is finished cause as soon as they see my sabre i can look forward to a super elite wonder toon comeing and costing me a few days of work just to get where i was.
Point being is that jedi should be hard but the current system it appraoches impossible at times or at the very least extreamly boreing. Hopefully the CU will help this as well but, like many other jedi its got me wondering if i even want this toon anymore if all it effectiveness is going to be striped to make it BALANCE with everyone else. To acheive true balance if there going to make everyone and his sister able to resist a jedi weapon then they need to make it so that you you need only whay other profs do to make lvls and gain xp, there is nothing fun about playing a toon that is suppose to be a warrior elite that cant kill his/her opponent or even scuff them good.
PeccaviCraft
Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:08 pm
#137
the last 2 long posts had some very good thoughts .. not trying to flame you but it's spelled Padawan.
tezzla wrote:
First off seems no one actually read the CU release info by blair, it was glanced at and picked a few words you did not like and made them into a statement rather then the actual statement that was made.
1. It was stated rather clearly that the combat profesions WOULD be seeing changes and jedi WAS specifically listed as one of those profesions.
2. The afor mentioned profesions WOULD go through a respec. this was not listed as a maybe or might it it was stated they WILL be respeced.
Everyone seems to be ignoreing the fact that in the past when a statement was made with the all encompasing ALL WEAPONS statement, its proposed changes never affected LS or there damage. The fact of the matter is we simply dont know at this point and leads one to belive (if there thinking) that this is undecided or unknown at this time. Maybe it willaffect it maybe not but, based on past statements we have no facts either way.
The questions that should be asked that WERE mentoned in the CU by blair are not being asked such as,
1. It WAS stated that soloing a rancor or other high end stuffwill NOT be possible and friend or two will be needed to take out some of the higher stuff, does this mean that lower lvl jedi still tring to get there temp done are going to be stuck with tring to get the xp grinding kreetles as afriend or two will get them killed ?
2 . If padiwansARE to be stuck with grinding lower lvl creatures to gain xp will there be anything done to make it worth there time? the grind up jedi skills is already a painfully long process (as it should be) but, under the CU will it be worth it?
3. As I stated above we dont actually know yet about LS damage but, the statement it will go away leads one to wonder,Whats the point in being a jedi ifthe only wepon I can use only does one type of damage considering it was stated in th CU you will have to choose weapon and armor/defense based on what you choose tofight? if iam stuck with one weapon at one type of damage seems this will leave me out of some battles or content.
4. Will jedipadiwans get any actually defense in there robes? If everyone has defense against my weapon basically makeing it useless illneed defenses to live long enough to run away.
I doint think a padiwan should be able to own everything but, makeing a padiwan no better then your average new toon is just wrong, to become a padiwan is not like walking intoa marksmans shop and start training you have to prove your self worthy andstrong so why is it that after you fight off hords off things and go through a bunch of trials to prove your better then average you are left with a sub-standard char to go out and face more potential friction then anyone else? makes no sense. If not able to kill attackers you shoiuld at minimum be able to last longer then a few seconds when the super stacked ultra elite toon comes after you to think this people WONT hunt the easy mark is just foolish on behalf of the devs.
Will this change ? I doubt it they seem set on yelling balance and then leaveing new jedi seriously unbalanced, works out to, you bust your butt to atain this goal of becomeing a jedi padiwan now, you are forced to hide from all your friends as they will with out choice make a BH come after you that you have no hope in hell of even escapeing from.
I live with these things cause I enjoy the battle and seeing the blade but i would like to participate in my guild stuff which i am restricted from until next year some time when the temp plate is finished cause as soon as they see my sabre i can look forward to a super elite wonder toon comeing and costing me a few days of work just to get where i was.
Point being is that jedi should be hard but the current system it appraoches impossible at times or at the very least extreamly boreing. Hopefully the CU will help this as well but, like many other jedi its got me wondering if i even want this toon anymore if all it effectiveness is going to be striped to make it BALANCE with everyone else. To acheive true balance if there going to make everyone and his sister able to resist a jedi weapon then they need to make it so that you you need only whay other profs do to make lvls and gain xp, there is nothing fun about playing a toon that is suppose to be a warrior elite that cant kill his/her opponent or even scuff them good.
Omar_Hawk
Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:23 pm
#138
Hi there,
slowly comming up from FS to Jedi (one more unlock to do)
After reading most of the postings in this thread i have to say, 99% are just speculation whats maybe comming up and whats not.
Sure Jedi Healer would be affected, but dont get killed by Action or Mind pool didn´t say thhat pools are worthless.
Maybe (another speculation) buffs will be nerfed a little so you slowly use up your action and mind pool by using special attacks, so if it reaches a low leavel you are not able to use any it would be usefull to have the ability to heal action and mind pool.
So where is the point, if i use a Headhit and you got no helmet equiped i´ll do a lot more damage to your health pool so headhit is also usefull again.
Fact is simple, we all got not enough Informations to drive anything into stone, also i guess Beta will change a lot of Things now writen on paper.
Also it´s should be logic, if i need a lot of time and i guess from Padawan to Jedi knight is not a 2 week grind like MBH, each template should have the power how hard it´s to reach.
So if you want an equal Template to Jedi, and lets say its MBH, than MBH should even use up an equal amount of XP to grind.
You want to beat a Jedi Knight in a 1 vs 1? So don´t whine and be prepared to do the same Work than a Jedi got to do.
Also i think a large Base of Players just play SWG to go for an Jedi, many of them would leave the game if Jedi would be nerfed to hard, just for the Reason, why should anyone work on a template for months ifhe/she can get a "simple" Template that does the same in a few weeks.
You dont want to do the work to become a jedi, sorry so just use another Template and dont whine if you get smashed by a 1 Year Work Template.
LS Damage: It sounds to me LS would become a basic damage and then maybe each LS got a different Elemental Damage or just LS Damage as elemental, maybe there will be some LS resist Armor so its usefull to have LS with Kinetic damage.
But until we got final Docs what will be, 90%+ will be speculation, also if you read between the rows and think you find a in stone written Rule for anything. It´s driven in Stone when it goes live on the servers and then there will be another balancing again cause most things dont work like they was written on the paper.
JediMasterZero
Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:18 pm
#139
"Always in motion, the future is." -Yoda
We won't be able to make a'sses nor eblows of the CURB until about May 12th. That's my bet.
Everything's gonna be tweaked, then re-tweaked, then re-re-tweaked and ultimately, it'll all come out broken. 
I've seen every damn publish of this game come to live...along with the inevitable and innumerable fixes accompanying said publishes. This combat update will just be the latest in a long line of failures and letdowns.
As you can tell, I don't have much in the way of optimism for SWG anymore. I've seen too much tolet myself think optimistically.
WookieOgre
Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:33 am
#140
Thanks for coming here and clearing up your points StarNick. Usually I take a wait and see attitude or look for the bright side of thingshoweverno where in your posts was I seeing the "bright" side of things. For all I know you are a Jedi supporter on the Correspondent forums even though it might look completely the opposite (and even you have to admit some of those comments almost look personal towards this profession). You have to understand that Jedi had the nerf stick for almost a year, little by little we get weaker or more broken. Then we have the whole community that would sooner see us removed from the game rather than be balanced. I personally laugh at all these people since half of them don't even know what they are talking about however it's one thing for some random player to say something it's another for a Correspondent.
So after all this we were not supposed to be part of the CURB yet in this document it clearly states Jedi will be changed in some way. Then our correspondent says he can not give out any information yet. But then you start posting ,although slightly vague, your opinion on how things are looking for the Jedi profession. Knight, Padawan, Master....who knows what you were refering to, that was the whole point of my complaint. You give these vague statements with no detail, just MBH will be like TKM and defeat some Jedi. Just incase you didn't know, TKM's already easily handle Padawans (unfinished templates) and yes depending on the stacking or use of PSG they can also kill Knights. So what might be an innocent little comment in your eyes is HUGE to us considering we have been asking for some kind of balance. Most Jedi believe we are overpowered to Ranged yet are very weak to melee. Your comment made it look like MBH will just have the power of a current TKM template........who knows what you meant by template, could be stacker or BH /shrug. I ask, why do you even have to mention that? It's not like SonG is going to come back and say, no he is wrong because of X. What you currently have is a lot of paranoid Jedi thatarethinking the worse and then you make statements that confirm something bad is going to happen.
Sure one could deduce that LS damage is going away, yet no one really knew as it wasn't specifically mentioned in the information released. You could guess but TBH Lightsabers are the only weapon that is not crafted by a WS, why can't I guess that it would be different from all other weapons? Reason I believe this should have been handled with more care is there are current balance issues with us not being able to wear armor. So you confirm one piece of information and leave SonG just say he is fighting for us because he can't comment on anything. That's pretty unfair. Not to mention we at the moment have only one weapon type which will not be the case for the rest of the professions. Now we will be resisted by everyone with armor, I'm waiting for the balancing part.
You are right it's more frustration than anything that they release little information yet it already causes balance issues since we can't look at the overall picture. However don't you think it would be better to let each professions Correspondent to comment on the changes? IMO, SonG isnot saying anything until he is able to give the full picture. Again I'll say I like the fact you were talking about your profession and answering their questions but maybe you should let SonG give us information regarding Jedi since he will know the questions that will arise that you might not be able to clarify.
Page 11 of 11