Jedi Archive

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MasterSheep wrote:

firstly my background - im a weaponsmith who has recently unlocked jedi. as such i have a detailed understanding of how the weapons in this game work.

Im amazed at the number of comments i see on these boards along the line of..

""SABERS ARE RUBBISH _ A REGULASR RUN OF THE MILL JEDI CAN GET ABOUT 400-500 MAX DAMAGE ON THERE SABER WHERE AS ANY OLD WEAPONSMITH CAN MAKE ME A1160 MAX DAM LASER RIFLE!!! - OMG SABERS ARE SUCH RUBBISH WEAPONS!!!!!!!"

the caps are included to emphasise how these posts are often written

let me explain something that most players miss about sabers and why even an average 400-500 damage saber is still a terrifically good and ballanced weapon in this game.

lets compare 2 weapons

saber

400-500 damage

elemental heat - 125 (no banes crystal)

Gorax featherweight fwg5 kinetic weapon

384-966 (damage capped)

no elemental

i am aware that a pistol can be puped - however most will use a sac capped weapon - the stats on that pistol are one of the best pistol stats you can get and we are comparing it to a run of the mill saber

ok now the thing to remember is this - in low end pvp (farming the aacunan caves - killing cl4 womp rats etc) the weapons MAX damage comes into play. The difference between the weapons max and min is difided by 30 and depending on the CL difference between you and your target the weapon does an appropriate damage. eg 10 CL less than you it does max dam - 20 more than you it does min damage.

NOTE elemental damage is NOT effected by this - another + to the saber

WIth adv critical shot the PISTOL will hit a CL 70 for 1055 and a CL 100 for 420 - a huge range.

With improved saberpowerattack the saber will hit a CL70 for 653 and a CL 100 for534 - a tight range

NOTE the average saber does more damage vs high level targets than even the most enhnaced a pistol can get!!

ok PvP

first thing to note all weapon damages except elemental gets cut by .7 for pvp calculations - another + for a saber with its high elemental (also another + for commando weapons in PvP - but thats another story)

for PvP the weapons base damage is based on your acc vs the targets defences

if acc is 750 over defence you hit for the max

if acc is 750 less than defence you hit for the min

first test subject - master DEF jedi running im Aura - not AB

Pistol will hit for 317

Saber will hit for 325

(again using power attack and crit shot)

almost identical - that is in high end PvPa mediocre saber is pretty much equivelent to the very best pistols on the market...

vs a low defence opponent however..

eg a carbineer with 6000 resist battle armour and 4500 elemental..

pistol hits for 480

saber hits for 488

so even vs a weaker target the saber still holds its own

CONCLUSIONS

Max dam is a poor guide to high end PvP damage

Min damage is a much better guide

Elemental damage is vital for a good pvp weapon - sabers have alot of it

Sabers are remarkably well balanced - an average saber is just as good in high end PvP as the best a pistol can possible - simular stuff applies when you look at rifles and carbs - they hit slightly harder however fire slower

SABERS are NOT underpowered as weapons. they are desinged for high end PvE/PvP rather than low end grey con mob killing though - vs a CL90+ opponent even an average saber is by far the best choice.

A'ru

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Yup I think they've got you there....the warmup timer pretty much kills your argument for the specials comparison.

agree with that on the first post i did - i did a rehash with head hit - saber still holds its own - its on page 3 i think

Yup I think they've got you there....the warmup timer pretty much kills your argument for the specials comparison.

I, personally, do not profess a profound understanding of the damage calculations in this game, but based on my large amount of experience as a BH before going jedi (I was MBH/MCM):

The only jedi I really ever had problems with were the ones with Pre-CU sabers that had DPS's of well over 500+. As a CM (unless I screw up horribly), the only way for a Jedi to have a good shot at killing me is to land a KD and then pound the crap out of me as fast as they can. Hence, unless the jedi in question has one of these now somewhat difficult to obtain lightsabers, they pretty much have no chance to kill me, and stand a good chance of getting killed by me if they stick around to fight (although this is not by any means a universal truth...I have been beaten by post-CU saber wielding jedi in very creative fashions...).

The point? Post-CU sabersmay be abit on the underpowered side, but not by too much, if any (frankly, I"ve read a lot of posts on this issue, and I don't think either side has definitive arguments...there are just too many exceptions to each case).

Regardless of what they are now, I have a feeling that the advent of the new FRS (whenever that comes about) is going to completely change the subject. My theory: the devs pretty much have no way around being forced to fix the pearl drop issue, because it would be a bad business strategy to never give new jedi a good chance at competing in the new FRS...they are more concerned about attracting new customers than keeping old ones. Once this is fixed, the whole saber damage problem goes away.

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MasterSheep wrote:

Yup I think they've got you there....the warmup timer pretty much kills your argument for the specials comparison.

agree with that on the first post i did - i did a rehash with head hit - saber still holds its own - its on page 3 i think

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Wrong my BH using a power up'ed ALR

655-1347 damage

Acc with foods and aim bonus is 801(55 on rifle)

hitting a jedi with no armour/defender fora damageoff: (second figures with 2287 PSG)

Critical Shot :1792 1338

Imp Head shot:16981315

Imp Conceal Shot :2170 1681

AdvanSniper shot :3207 2884

BH attacks Jedi with a basic 20 in def

Message Edited by NoviceRangerFlurry on 09-08-2005 09:45 PM

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MasterSheep wrote:
correct - vs a jedi without aura for defence a rifle does huge damage much mroe than a saber would... switch on aura and give the jedi some armour and its a different matter entirely...

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Message Edited by NoviceRangerFlurry on 09-09-2005 02:49 PM

i agree with you - vs a non defender (ie no aura) with limited armour even a half decent rifle is much better than a saber.. as you hit near the top end of your huge damage range - these ae the numbers you quoted me above

my point is that vs a defender on aura (+500 defence) unless you really stack up accuracy mods your gonna hit near the bottom end of your damage range (as i demonstrated in my original post -0 and my rehash with more comparable specials on page 3) it is under those circumstances that a saber outperforms a rifle...

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NoviceRangerFlurry wrote:

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MasterSheep wrote:
correct - vs a jedi without aura for defence a rifle does huge damage much mroe than a saber would... switch on aura and give the jedi some armour and its a different matter entirely...

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No that is damage agains't a non defender! And so what your saying is that you must have Aura and this again leads us to FOTM templates, something the CU was to stop!

Note that SOE said there would be no one hit incaps and you can see from the damage that this is not true!

Message Edited by NoviceRangerFlurry on 09-09-200502:49 PM

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yep - if you dont wanna be 1 hit incapped vs a rifleman as a jedi get some armour or some defence mods without them you are as weak as a novice marksman in defence

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MasterSheep wrote:

i agree with you - vs a non defender (ie no aura) with limited armour even a half decent rifle is much better than a saber.. as you hit near the top end of your huge damage range - these ae the numbers you quoted me above

my point is that vs a defender on aura (+500 defence) unless you really stack up accuracy mods your gonna hit near the bottom end of your damage range (as i demonstrated in my original post -0 and my rehash with more comparable specials on page 3) it is under those circumstances that a saber outperforms a rifle...

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