Jedi Archive
Thread: a CL1 has ideas for the jedi profession
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sic_nos_defleo
Tue Aug 12, 2003 5:51 am
#1
pizzathehut67 wrote:
Is every other poster on these boards a communist? When did work stop providing a reward? I had an AS and my crap bone armor was ignored on the bazaar, that was totally against the greater good of thegame and I should have the same bankroll as that illiberal malcontent that made the armor that sold while mine went unnoticed. I deserved the same game experience that the 90% comp peddlers were having! Yes Mr. Bounty hunter I know you spent 12 million on your armor not including adk's, but your hurting my game experience because I cant kill you. McCarthy help!!!
more work unlocked a cool character that should bring with it added content and a slight but noticeable advantage. it became cummunistic as you when we all payed the same 15 dollars a month to play the game. So by your terms... because of the way you choose to play your game you should be better than everyone else because of a raised baseline?
YES, the BH with thegazillion credit75% ABADK'D suit and the super soaker full of hurt deserves the reward for the acquisition of his gear and template, YES, the AS that spends endless hours pouring over schematics and spending untold fortunes on resources to make the best gear deserves forthose suits to sell like hot cakes, and YES a person that puts the time into grinding a jedi deserves a powerful character. Heres a little perspective on the effort to payout ratio. My main for 2 years took7 months from unlock to full temp. My alt, 5 days from nerf herder to mbh mrifles, 7 days of npc missions for 2 killer ca's, 20 mil and the best gear available minus it all being adk'd. When you put forth effort, you reap the reward of that effort. How does that make sense in every pursuit other than having a powerful character that THEY PUT IN THE GAME FOR PEOPLE TO PLAY!
larryburns
Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:32 pm
#2
jedi are 1.5X stronger then a normal player. A normal lvl 54 player. Not a lvl 80 combat class. In fact I think some of us have found that many BH builds now are actually stronger then us. I've seen swordsman/tk builds do more damage to a jedi then the jedi doing to them. If your CL1 then you really have a limited view of the real situation. It doesn't matter if you once did combat or not. If you haven't fought recently then you wouldn't know what it's like. I feel bad for all the new jedi coming in because they think we are awsome and cool looking when all we are is flashy glowsticks of 300 damage against 7700 AB resist armor with a pre-cu saber. Defender has a lot of defenses which is ok, but powers has the shaft, enhancer is ok if you like running, and mls and healer are a joke. Jedi need to be slightly harder to get, and more powerful.
pizzathehut67
Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:00 am
#3
So ive been up all night reading about non-jedi servers and nerfs and things like that. But i think i actually have a solution that works for everyone... or rather a series of idea. The complaints i mention are not mine... remember im a NON-COMBAT CL1. i did just buy an alt and am making it BH... and i will try a few jedi missions to see what its all about... but im more about the loot and vendors 
. Before you say it, i have not fought or lost to a single jedi. My one PvP death came at the hands of a CL80 Teras Kasi Master.
. Before you say it, i have not fought or lost to a single jedi. My one PvP death came at the hands of a CL80 Teras Kasi Master.READ THE WHOLE THING AND POST ONLY IF YOU WANT TO BE POSITIVE, HELPFUL AND THOUGHTFUL! i know its the status quo to flame, but i did put some effort and thought into trying to think of an equitable solution for everyone. Show some respect and put your thoughts into constructive criticism. If you dont like my ideas then please tell me why and what you think should change.
-remove all bugs related to stacking pearl damage, using macros to dole out massive amounts of damage in a second, and anything else that can be used as an exploit. when coupled with the template... the 1.5X stronger thing becomes 10X stronger. These need to be removed if they havent been already (sometimes i read old posts and dont know it). Likewise, remove exploits from all other combat profs as well. These exploits should be a top priority.
Complaint: "Jedi are too powerful"
Answer from player base: "we should be... we did a long grind for it. You just need to use your skills better"
my take: Allowing any one profession to be more powerful off the bat in any fight is ludicrous. I dont care how long your grind was. Im a tailor/chef/artisan (merchant dabble). I did plenty of grinding and i dont think i deserve a better selling product or more money because i did more grinding than someother crafting prof. Why does a combat prof feel they need more power because they had to grind more? While it is true that jedi are more powerful in the movies (although there are parts that conflict with that directly), you cant have a multi-player game have an alpha or better class. It simply unbalances the game. Why should everyone else need to be the best and most skilled PvP'er when you dont have to? Besides all that, the continuity argument is simply trash... SOE doesnt give a damn about continuity or else they wouldnt have allowed so many people to become a jedi would they?
my answer: Give jedi more special abilities and lower the bonuses on some. im not exactly sure what bonuses the jedi have, but i have heard that several are over-powered. There is one i read about that gives 500 defense while advanced aim in the rifle tree doesnt even give half that bonus in accuracy. more diverse specials (but on par with other profs) would still give jedi the edge... but would require a jedi to also have to rely mainly on their skill. Claiming "i grind so i should be what i am" is an ignorant argument. To have a game be fun for everyone... everyone should be on a generally equal playing field. As stated, jedi would still have a distinct advantage... but this advantage would come from a greater number of tactical choices and not simply having a more powerful base line.
Complaint: There are too many jedi
Answer from player base: im really not sure anyone disagrees with this... there simply are too many
my take: i think we do have an over-population problem with jedi. But im beginning to believe more and more that jedi is a pretty much empty profession. Sure, you can do grievous runs as those are geared towards jedi. But, how many times can you kill grievous before its boring as hell?
my answer: Make jedi more engaging and immersive to play. Add fun random events that can occur to a jedi. A special quest where the ghost of some ancient jedi simply appears to a jedi when they are alone and gives the quest to only that jedi for only that jedi to do. Make some sort of penalty for using force skills within cities or do somthing to make the jedi feel illegal. Honestly, if a sliced gun gets you assaulted by stormtroopers... so would tossing a saber around! Why would this reduce the number of jedi? it really wouldnt... but adding in little things like the imperials hunting you, the feel of being an outcast or illegal, and more content for jedi would help to alleviate the 30vs.30 jedi battles in theed. By content i do not mean more special loot that jedi can get... but rather engaging stories the jedi can play through.
Complaint: The high level caves are geared for jedi... making it too difficult for regular profs to accomplish.
answer from player base: use your skills better
my take: again, having a class that is simply better to begin with is unfair. and arguing that it holds true to the canon is a nerfed argument as there no longer is any correlation to canon in this game at all.
my answer: simple! when Luke was on Dagobah and stared into the decapitated head of darth vader in that little cave, he found himself in a dark place he couldnt bare to be in. Even the all powerful yoda didnt go in there. Why not add in caves geared for regular profs that have a similar ailment the cave on dagobah has? jedi would be allowed inside... but say that force powers and skills dont work inside of the cave. the content and loot in the cave would be geared for regular combat profs just as the content and loot for the current high level mobs should be revamped to be geared to jedi. To put it another way, if a cave is geared to a jedi's level, make the loot acquired geared towards a jedi. Dont make a high level mob a money making tool for a jedi.
more to come later... i do need a teeny bit of sleep 
JerremThoth
Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:03 am
#4
Long post bud break it up in small bites for us hehe. But yeah i agree with most of what you said.
Raz
pizzathehut67
Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:07 am
#5
JerremThoth wrote:
Long post bud break it up in small bites for us hehe. But yeah i agree with most of what you said.
Raz
a little reading wont kill you... put that in word and i bet you it's maybe a 1 page to 1.5 pages tops.
magneto2
Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:09 am
#6
gotta love non-jedi posting on this forum.....sounds like a true non-jedi....nurf FTW!!!!
PrettyPistol
Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:12 am
#7
i hope not. Just forget that a Jedi Forum exists...
pizzathehut67 wrote:
more to come later... i do need a teeny bit of sleep
Eskie
Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:14 am
#8
Jedi are only 1.5 times more powerful in 1 vs 1 situations. Most Jedi abilities can be found with similar or better stats under a different name in regular professions.
The power of a Jedi stems from having more skills in one template than a regular template (Center of Being and Armor Break and+Root+). A Jedi is a jack-of-all-trades. There are only a few iconic Jedi abilities that are not present in regular professions. A short rundown:
- Improved Force Aura: Same as Improved Center of Being
- Improved Saber Armor Break: Only slighty better than Swordsman Armor Break
- Advanced Force Heal: Surpassed by any Doc 4xxx or CM 4xxx, can heal while KDed, though
- Cloak: Iconic skill, but pretty much Rifleman cover with movement ability and without the auto-decloaking if approached
- Choke: Iconic skill, although the same as a CM poison - not cureable, though.
I could go on with this list, but you get the idea.
If you can muster a group of 8 different, highly specialized regular players, they will perform on the same level as a group of 8 Jedi - but it requires coordination. The only difference is the group of 8 regular players will drop in performance a lot when a member is killed, while the group of 7 Jedi might not even notice the 8th guy missing.
The problem is most people get beaten by Jedi 1 vs 1.5 and think the same will carry over in the GCW, and dont even try it.
Complaining about being ganked by 8 Jedi does not mean Jedi are overpowered - 8 Swordsmen would have killed in the same time.
A group of riflemen complaining about being rolled by Jedi groups does not mean Jedi are overpowered - somebody just chose a bad place to fight and did not diversify his group's skills. If you are a rifleman, base defense turrets are your friend as is range. Dont try to fight Jedi in Theed where Jedi (and any other melee player) can break your line of sight easily.
The problem also is that Jedi are too easy to spot in game and dont care a lot about hiding their abilities until they actually fight. Jedi duels in Theed should not be happening on a regular basis, for example. But this can be adressed by changing the BH death penalty system, no changes to Jedi skills involved in this one.
The power of a Jedi stems from having more skills in one template than a regular template (Center of Being and Armor Break and+Root+). A Jedi is a jack-of-all-trades. There are only a few iconic Jedi abilities that are not present in regular professions. A short rundown:
- Improved Force Aura: Same as Improved Center of Being
- Improved Saber Armor Break: Only slighty better than Swordsman Armor Break
- Advanced Force Heal: Surpassed by any Doc 4xxx or CM 4xxx, can heal while KDed, though
- Cloak: Iconic skill, but pretty much Rifleman cover with movement ability and without the auto-decloaking if approached
- Choke: Iconic skill, although the same as a CM poison - not cureable, though.
I could go on with this list, but you get the idea.
If you can muster a group of 8 different, highly specialized regular players, they will perform on the same level as a group of 8 Jedi - but it requires coordination. The only difference is the group of 8 regular players will drop in performance a lot when a member is killed, while the group of 7 Jedi might not even notice the 8th guy missing.
The problem is most people get beaten by Jedi 1 vs 1.5 and think the same will carry over in the GCW, and dont even try it.
Complaining about being ganked by 8 Jedi does not mean Jedi are overpowered - 8 Swordsmen would have killed in the same time.
A group of riflemen complaining about being rolled by Jedi groups does not mean Jedi are overpowered - somebody just chose a bad place to fight and did not diversify his group's skills. If you are a rifleman, base defense turrets are your friend as is range. Dont try to fight Jedi in Theed where Jedi (and any other melee player) can break your line of sight easily.
The problem also is that Jedi are too easy to spot in game and dont care a lot about hiding their abilities until they actually fight. Jedi duels in Theed should not be happening on a regular basis, for example. But this can be adressed by changing the BH death penalty system, no changes to Jedi skills involved in this one.
Message Edited by Eskie on 09-09-2005 01:18 PM
EHarley
Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:15 am
#9
I'm a non jedi, and I think that most of what was written is complete BS. Some was fine, but I bet he/she has no desire to be jedi. Coming from a non combatant, that's about what I expect. I agree that the bugs need fixed, the exploits of course needs fixed, but Jedi should be tough and jedi should NOT be nerfed. The content however should be geared for jedi if the location is geared for jedi. I do agree there should be a sort of separation there. TO be honest though, NK is gear for GROUPS not nessecarly jedi. Jedi just happen to be able to solo it, MAYBE. I think if enough though and preparation I can solo NK too, but Jedi MDef would have much better time at it than I. That's not cause its a JEDI content, its GROUP content that jedi can solo, MAYBE. AND DON'T NERF EM FOR IT !
*edit* Eskona hit the nail on the head! Perfect way of explaining.
*edit* Eskona hit the nail on the head! Perfect way of explaining.
Message Edited by EHarley on 09-09-2005 04:19 AM
sic_nos_defleo
Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:52 am
#11
"we should be... we did a long grind for it. You just need to use your skills better"
i grind so i should be what i am" is an ignorant argument. To have a game be fun for everyone...
everyone should be on a generally equal playing field
Is every other poster on these boards a communist? When did work stop providing a reward? I had an AS and my crap bone armor was ignored on the bazaar, that was totally against the greater good of thegame and I should have the same bankroll as that illiberal malcontent that made the armor that sold while mine went unnoticed. I deserved the same game experience that the 90% comp peddlers were having! Yes Mr. Bounty hunter I know you spent 12 million on your armor not including adk's, but your hurting my game experience because I cant kill you. McCarthy help!!!
Geepster
Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:59 am
#12
Tryit out before you make any comment/judgements Isay to all non-jedi
- I think we all agree on the bug and exploits to be removed
-I agree that the grind that is so long cant be used as an excuse to be 10x stronger but people who done it do actually deserve 1.5 or 2x stronger. To grind a full template jedi it takes about 60 times longer then a normal lvl 80 combat character, how about you having a job and work 60 hours a week but still make the same amount of money as someone who does exactly the same work for30 hours a week
-There are to many jedi? Maybe, but thats what SOE wants, the ability to become jedi makes most people play the game, complain to them and not to those want to be one. And if they are able to fix the GCW and make PvP fun in a good working system (pre-cu ftw 
) I glady delete my jedi help them balancing this.
-High level caves are not designed for jedi only, they are just easier when you have the help of one or two jedis, this is not very bad in my opinion because you need combat medic/docs for those high end caves too SOE made it a game where grouping is essential and jedi are only a part of it.
Now this is how I see it.
Have fun.
pizzathehut67
Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:00 am
#13
Is every other poster on these boards a communist? When did work stop providing a reward? I had an AS and my crap bone armor was ignored on the bazaar, that was totally against the greater good of thegame and I should have the same bankroll as that illiberal malcontent that made the armor that sold while mine went unnoticed. I deserved the same game experience that the 90% comp peddlers were having! Yes Mr. Bounty hunter I know you spent 12 million on your armor not including adk's, but your hurting my game experience because I cant kill you. McCarthy help!!!
more work unlocked a cool character that should bring with it added content and a slight but noticeable advantage. it became cummunistic as you when we all payed the same 15 dollars a month to play the game. So by your terms... because of the way you choose to play your game you should be better than everyone else because of a raised baseline?
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