Jedi Archive

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Big-Rug wrote:

I am Master Healer, MLS, 0404 Enhancer.

I feel kind of special for playing the weakest and least-played profession in the game (see recent Astromech stat additions by Virrago [I think it was]) - Master healer is the least played profession for a reason: It is outdated and underpowered; no longer reflecting the needs of the post-CU game.

I still have my token respec, and I am tempted every time I log in to change to a dabbler template that I may be able to have more fun with. But Master Healer is where I wanted to be right from the first day I made my character. It suits my playstyle, and is not the cookiee-cutter template I see the majority of the time.

It has become even weaker ever since its abilites had extra action and mind costs added and the cool down timers extended in publish 19. While I agree that CM and Docs definitely needed to have their abilities increased, healer jedi should not have been toned down to that extent. I noticed that a developer comment on that issue after healer had been nerfed was (to paraphrase) 'your heals will be fine, how often are you fit for 200 damage more than once per second. I couldn't believe this to be honest - have they ever actually played this game? 20 mins hunting on Dantooine and you will see its very common to be attacked by 3 or more animals at once. Quite often (especially in my circumstance of having little defence) being hit for 500+ cumulative damage per second.

Not to mention Bounty Hunter/Combat Medic Fights - they can boost on food and spice while knocking out superior heals. They have no long term stat (force) to worry about and can quite often dish out superior damage to post-cu jedi. They can also apply DoTs and debuffs that heal states and total heal cannot even touch.

Lest to say I feel a very weak character for the amount of effort invested in my beloved character. I have thought long and hard about the Master Healer profession, and have though of general ideas, hich if worked upon properly, would help Master Healers be much more viable in the post-cu climate.

Master healers should be able to get jedi xp from healing in the same fashion as docs and CMs do.

Healing should not be a set amount at the different levels, but instead should have the amount linked to a force healing efficiency skill in the same way as normal healers do, having one tree to give more bonuses to the skill, but still have efficieny spread throughout the trees with a larger single bonus for master healer.

Novice Force Healer:

• Force Heal

• Mild defence bonuses.

• Beast Calm - allows the jedi to break aggro by beasts for 8 seconds, and cannot be aggroed again in that time. (this should help low level padawans when they are grinding and get in too deep. Note this is for beasts only to minimise any possible exploits with dungeons etc - would also have a long cooldown i expect.

Tree 1: Force Healing

• Incremental increases in force healing

• Personal healing over time as now at box 2.

• aura of healing at 4th box to provide a very slow, low power heal over time for group characters within 12m

Tree 2: Force Focus

• Only 1 version of remove fire and heal wounds - to be honest since CU these are both much less important in the game.

• Introduce buffs that can be applied by the healer - however make them jedi-orientated so as to not step on the feet of docs. The Force Enhancer quite rightly has the area of personal buffing covered. I suggest this tree be there to cater for group buffs. This will also encourage jedi to group together and go off to be self sufficent: so perpetuating an illusion that there are not as many jedi around.
  
  Examples I have thought of could be buffs that give mild increases to force regen, saber block and total force. This gives very specific jedi bonuses but will still mean doc buffs will be greatly sought after. Also a form of battle meditation could be implemented in box 4 - giving mild benefits in defence and accuracy to squad members within range whilst reducing the defences and damage output of the jedi healer (I dont't want to step on the toes of the awesome new changes to Squad Leader, so this would definitely need their input).

Tree 3: Force Debuffs

I see the Jedi Healer taking aspects of both the CM and doc roles and merging them into a hybrid profession that has great flexibility. This tree I see as being able to apply debuffs that actually make a difference! Force shock and force sap already do good things, they just need to be made more effective now most players are sussed on the best way to maximise action and mind regen with food and spices.
In addition to sap and shock, I suggest implementing a jedi power whichis documented in the d20 RPG as well as the EU:

• Malacia (box3?)- this is a force technique used by light siders which causes extreme dizziness and nausea in a target. This allows jedi to overcome an opponent without causing them harm, I suggest his causes the target to become dizzy, and then have the same effect as a spice downer, with associated animation. This debuff would last for the same time as a spice downer.

Tree 4: The living force.
This tree represents a jedi healer's connection to the living force within himself and the natural world, and would show as a tree with some crowd control, states heals and some proactive measures to apply states at range.

• Box 1: Cure Toxin - heals poison, disease and bleeds.

• Box 2: Plant surge - the jedi causes roots and vines etc on the ground around a target to wrap around their legs, causing them to be rooted for a time.

• Box3: Force Light - the jedi projects a beam of light force energy at a target, causing them to be blinded (and possibly a slight snare effect as they stumble around?). This ability would also cause damage to npcs who are associated with the dark side (dark jedi ncs and/or dark side spirits if they are ever introduced).

• Box4: Heal states - this heals ALL states that are now in the game.. including all post-CU states. It would also heal snares, and reduce roots to a snare.

Master Healer

• Imbue life - a resurrection ability (after all, now that docs and CMs no longer use res packs to ressurect players, their abilities are essentialy force-like anyway, so why shouldnt master healers have a rez ability too?

• Total Heal (at the moment this is weak compared to the force required, especially considering BF has been removed) this heals all damage, removes ALL states and debuffs and will remove snares and roots.

• Morichro - this is a documented light jedi technique which is banned to all but the most experienced (master) healers. The technique slows the bodily functions of a target, potentially killing it if continued for extended durations. The technique can also be used to extend a meditative state indefinitely, keeping the jedi alive for years if necessary.
  
  I am not totaly sure of the exact effect morichro should use. But i suggest an extreme combat speed debuff and minor damage over time. The technique would be toggled on/off in the same way force run can be done so now, and of course as this is a potentially powerful power if used properly, it would have an appropriate force cost.
  

Obviously these are only tentative ideas that need lots of work on them, but I think in general changes like this would make jedi healer a great template to use, and very light-side orientated for those who like to act like jedi! (not just the roleplayers, I bet a lot of people like me see it as a bit odd that we become better jedi by killing - the ability to get jedi xp from healing should help with this also).

Please let me know what you think, if there is enough feedback and ideas, I will draw this up into a proper in-concept community idea.

Thanks guys,

BR

*Edited for Spelling*

Message Edited by Big-Rug on 09-17-2005 12:29 PM

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Great post man...

I am Master Healer, MLS, 0404 Enhancer.

I feel kind of special for playing the weakest and least-played profession in the game (see recent Astromech stat additions by Virrago [I think it was]) - Master healer is the least played profession for a reason: It is outdated and underpowered; no longer reflecting the needs of the post-CU game.

I still have my token respec, and I am tempted every time I log in to change to a dabbler template that I may be able to have more fun with. But Master Healer is where I wanted to be right from the first day I made my character. It suits my playstyle, and is not the cookiee-cutter template I see the majority of the time.

It has become even weaker ever since its abilites had extra action and mind costs added and the cool down timers extended in publish 19. While I agree that CM and Docs definitely needed to have their abilities increased, healer jedi should not have been toned down to that extent. I noticed that a developer comment on that issue after healer had been nerfed was (to paraphrase) 'your heals will be fine, how often are you fit for 200 damage more than once per second.' I couldn't believe this to be honest - have they ever actually played this game? 20 mins hunting on Dantooine and you will see its very common to be attacked by 3 or more animals at once. Quite often (especially in my circumstance of having little defence) being hit for 500+ cumulative damage per second.

Not to mention Bounty Hunter/Combat Medic Fights - they can boost on food and spice while knocking out superior heals. They have no long term stat (force) to worry about and can quite often dish out superior damage to post-cu jedi. They can also apply DoTs and debuffs that heal states and total heal cannot even touch.

Lest to say I feel a very weak character for the amount of effort invested in my beloved character. I have thought long and hard about the Master Healer profession, and have though of general ideas, which if worked upon properly, would help Master Healers be much more viable in the post-cu climate.

Master healers should be able to get jedi xp from healing in the same fashion as docs and CMs do.

Healing should not be a set amount at the different levels, but instead should have the amount linked to a force healing efficiency skill in the same way as normal healers do, having one tree to give more bonuses to the skill, but still have efficieny spread throughout the trees with a larger single bonus for master healer. This will allow dedicated healers to invest in force healing effiency tapes the same way damage dealers invest in saber accuract tapes etc.

Novice Force Healer:

• Force Heal


• Small defencebonuses. (+5 to Ranged and Melee defence)


• Beast Calm - allows the jedi to break aggro by beasts for 8 seconds, and cannot be aggroed again in that time. (this should help low level padawans when they are grinding and get in too deep. Note this is for beasts only to minimise any possible exploits with dungeons etc - this ability has a long (eg 120 sec)cooldown timer.

• Incremental increases in force healing (+10 boxes 1-3, +15 Box 4)


• Box 2: Force Infusion (effect remains as it is now)


• Box 4: Improved Force Infusion (effect remains as it is now)


• aura of healing at 4th box to provide a very slow, low power heal over time for group characters within 12m

• Box 1: Force Rejuvenate heals 100 wounds and has a chance to remove fire (because to be honest since CU these are both much less important in the game, so warrants having both of them linked)

[Jedi buffs: jedi-orientated so as to not step on the feet of docs. Iwanted this tree be there to cater for group buffs. This will also encourage jedi to group together and go off to be self sufficent: so perpetuating an illusion that there are not as many jedi around.]

• Box 2: Centered - Group buff that uses 100 force to activate and 50 force every 5 minutes (Total buff time 15 mins): Provides the jedi in the groupwith a +2increase to their force pool regeneration for the duration of the buff


• Box 3: Healing aura - Area heal for the jedi.
  +5 Healing efficiency.


• Box 4: Battle Meditation (I estimate 500 force cost) - Increases +10 saber accuracy of jedi group members within 10m and gives +5 to melee and ranged defence, and+5 saber block to jedi in group. The healer has his accuracy lowered -10, defences lowered by 15 and Damage output is reduced to 10% of normal as his concentration is focussed on improving his jediteammates.

Hopefully these buffs will assist jedi in the group (the area heal will assist all in the group). And hopefully having the area heal in this tree, and battle meditation at box 4 will reward those who invest in the profession, and will limit dabblers gaining all the benefits without having to fully invest.

Tree 3: Force Debuffs

I see the Jedi Healer taking aspects of both the CM and doc roles and merging them into a hybrid profession that has great flexibility. This tree I see as being able to apply debuffs that actually make a difference! Force shock and force sap already do good things, they just need to be made more effective now most players are sussed on the best way to maximise action and mind regen with food and spices.
In addition to sap and shock, I suggest implementing a jedi power whichis documented in the d20 RPG as well as the EU:

• Box 1 - Force Shock


• Box 2 - Force Sap


• Box 3 - Improved Force Sap


• Box 4 - Malacia: this is a force technique used by light siders which causes extreme dizziness and nausea in a target. This allows jedi to overcome an opponent without causing them harm. Causes Dizzy, and -20% to Health, Action and Mind regeneration for 1 minute. Puke Animation. +5 Force Healing Efficiency

Tree 4: The living force.
This tree represents a jedi healer's connection to the living force within himself and the natural world, and would show as a tree with some crowd control, states heals and some proactive measures to apply states at range.

• Box 1: Cure Toxin - heals poison, disease and bleeds.


• Box 2: Force Light - the jedi projects a beam of pure light force energy at a target, causing them to be blinded. This ability would also cause damage to npcs who are associated with the dark side (dark jedi ncs and/or dark side spirits if they are ever introduced).


• Box 3: Plant Surge - the jedi causes roots and vines etc. on the ground around a target to wrap around their legs, causing them to be rooted for a short time. 40 second cooldown.


• Box4: Heal states - this heals ALL states that are now in the game.. including all post-CU states. It would also heal snares, and reduce roots to a snare. Base Cost 25 + 25 per state healed.
  +5 Force Healing Efficiency

• +20 Force Healing Efficency


• Imbue life - a resurrection ability (after all, now that docs and CMs no longer use res packs to ressurect players, their abilities are essentialy force-like anyway, so why shouldnt master healers have a rez ability too?)


• Total Heal (180 force, as battle fatigue is no longer in the game) this heals all damage, but does not removes states.(I think this is fair, considering the force cost and the fact you have to invest the skillpoints to get the ability.)


• Morichro - this is a documented light jedi technique which is banned to all but the most experienced (master) healers. The technique slows the bodily functions of a target, potentially killing it if continued for extended durations. The technique can also be used to extend a meditative state indefinitely, keeping the jedi alive for years if necessary.
  - 100 Force to activate, and 50 force every 20 seconds when in use (toggle ability like force run)
  - Attack speed -20 on target, and target snared (snare has 15 second duration with 30sec re-apication downtime) 100 Damage every 20 sec.
  
  This ability would need a lot of tweaking I think.

Message Edited by Big-Rug on 09-17-2005 12:29 PM

Message Edited by Big-Rug on 10-17-2005 07:15 PM

Message Edited by Big-Rug on 10-24-2005 03:22 PM

Message Edited by Big-Rug on 10-24-2005 06:08 PM

Message Edited by Big-Rug on 10-24-2005 06:24 PM

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Big-Rug wrote:

I am Master Healer, MLS, 0404 Enhancer.

I feel kind of special for playing the weakest and least-played profession in the game (see recent Astromech stat additions by Virrago [I think it was]) - Master healer is the least played profession for a reason: It is outdated and underpowered; no longer reflecting the needs of the post-CU game.

I still have my token respec, and I am tempted every time I log in to change to a dabbler template that I may be able to have more fun with. But Master Healer is where I wanted to be right from the first day I made my character. It suits my playstyle, and is not the cookiee-cutter template I see the majority of the time.

It has become even weaker ever since its abilites had extra action and mind costs added and the cool down timers extended in publish 19. While I agree that CM and Docs definitely needed to have their abilities increased, healer jedi should not have been toned down to that extent. I noticed that a developer comment on that issue after healer had been nerfed was (to paraphrase) 'your heals will be fine, how often are you fit for 200 damage more than once per second. I couldn't believe this to be honest - have they ever actually played this game? 20 mins hunting on Dantooine and you will see its very common to be attacked by 3 or more animals at once. Quite often (especially in my circumstance of having little defence) being hit for 500+ cumulative damage per second.

Not to mention Bounty Hunter/Combat Medic Fights - they can boost on food and spice while knocking out superior heals. They have no long term stat (force) to worry about and can quite often dish out superior damage to post-cu jedi. They can also apply DoTs and debuffs that heal states and total heal cannot even touch.

Lest to say I feel a very weak character for the amount of effort invested in my beloved character. I have thought long and hard about the Master Healer profession, and have though of general ideas, hich if worked upon properly, would help Master Healers be much more viable in the post-cu climate.

Master healers should be able to get jedi xp from healing in the same fashion as docs and CMs do.

Healing should not be a set amount at the different levels, but instead should have the amount linked to a force healing efficiency skill in the same way as normal healers do, having one tree to give more bonuses to the skill, but still have efficieny spread throughout the trees with a larger single bonus for master healer.

Novice Force Healer:

• Force Heal

• Mild defence bonuses.

• Beast Calm - allows the jedi to break aggro by beasts for 8 seconds, and cannot be aggroed again in that time. (this should help low level padawans when they are grinding and get in too deep. Note this is for beasts only to minimise any possible exploits with dungeons etc - would also have a long cooldown i expect.

Tree 1: Force Healing

• Incremental increases in force healing

• Personal healing over time as now at box 2.

• aura of healing at 4th box to provide a very slow, low power heal over time for group characters within 12m

Tree 2: Force Focus

• Only 1 version of remove fire and heal wounds - to be honest since CU these are both much less important in the game.

• Introduce buffs that can be applied by the healer - however make them jedi-orientated so as to not step on the feet of docs. The Force Enhancer quite rightly has the area of personal buffing covered. I suggest this tree be there to cater for group buffs. This will also encourage jedi to group together and go off to be self sufficent: so perpetuating an illusion that there are not as many jedi around.
  
  Examples I have thought of could be buffs that give mild increases to force regen, saber block and total force. This gives very specific jedi bonuses but will still mean doc buffs will be greatly sought after. Also a form of battle meditation could be implemented in box 4 - giving mild benefits in defence and accuracy to squad members within range whilst reducing the defences and damage output of the jedi healer (I dont't want to step on the toes of the awesome new changes to Squad Leader, so this would definitely need their input).

Tree 3: Force Debuffs

I see the Jedi Healer taking aspects of both the CM and doc roles and merging them into a hybrid profession that has great flexibility. This tree I see as being able to apply debuffs that actually make a difference! Force shock and force sap already do good things, they just need to be made more effective now most players.
In addition to sap and shock, I suggest implementing jedi powers which are documented in the d20 RPG as well as the EU:

• Malacia (box3?)- this is a force technique used by light siders which causes extreme dizziness and nausea in a target. This allows jedi to overcome an opponent without causing them harm, I suggest his causes the target to become dizzy, and then have the same effect as a spice downer, with associated animation. This debuff would last for the same time as a spice downer.

Tree 4: The living force.
This tree represents a jedi healer's connection to the living force within himself and the natural world, and would show as a tree with some crowd control, states heals and some proactive measures to apply states at range.

• Box 1: Cure Toxin - heals poison, disease and bleeds.

• Box 2: Plant surge - the jedi causes roots and vines etc on the ground around a target to wrap around their legs, causing them to be rooted for a time.

• Box3: Force Light - the jedi projects a beam of light force energy at a target, causing them to be blinded (and possibly a slight snare effect as they stumble around?). This ability would also cause damage to npcs who are associated with the dark side (dark jedi ncs and/or dark side spirits if they are ever introduced).

• Box4: Heal states - this heals ALL states that are now in the game.. including all post-CU states. It would also heal snares, and reduce roots to a snare.

Master Healer

• Imbue life - a resurrection ability (after all, now that docs and CMs no longer use res packs to ressurect players, their abilities are essentialy force-like anyway, so why shouldnt master healers have a rez ability too?

• Total Heal (at the moment this is weak compared to the force required, especially considering BF has been removed) this heals all damage, removes ALL states and debuffs and will remove snares and roots.

• Morichro - this is a documented light jedi technique which is banned to all but the most experienced (master) healers. The technique slows the bodily functions of a target, potentially killing it if continued for extended durations. The technique can also be used to extend a meditative state indefinitely, keeping the jedi alive for years if necessary.
  
  I am not totaly sure of the exact effect morichro should use. But i suggest an extreme combat speed debuff and minor damage over time. The technique would be toggled on/off in the same way force fun can be done so now, and of course as this is a potentially powerful power if used properly, it would have an appropriate force cost.
  

Obviously these are only tentative ideas that need lots of work on them, but I think in general changes like this would make jedi healer a great template to use, and very light-side orientated for those who like to act like jedi! (not just the roleplayers, I bet a lot of people like me see it as a bit odd that we become better jedi by killing - the ability to get jedi xp from healing should help with this also).

Please let me know what you think, if there is enough feedback and ideas, I will draw this up into a proper in-concept community idea.

Thanks guys,

BR

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While I'm sure all that is real nice, I hope you understand and are willing to take a back seat to the professions that have been borked for so long. There are plenty that are a bit further ahead in line that master healer.

As an MLS MH 0440 Defender i'm going to agree with you that we are the least chosen profession and need some changes.

so for now until I can think of anythign to add...i'll second

Of course I understand there are other things and other professions that need a good look at. For one as a long time Master Ranger and Squad Leader before I focussed on Jedi, I am overjoyed that those two professions are finally getting the focus and attention they deserve. If we can get the same sort of focus for Smugglers then SWG will be a better place to game. I was also pleased to see a new Creature Handler system put into place that looks exciting and definitely makes me want to have a go at CH at a later date witha toon.

However the fact remains that Master Healer is officially the least played profession in the game, even under Force Senstive Crafting! To me that screams out that there is a definite problem with the profession. So there needs to be something done to it, for the good of the game in terms of balance and variety. My personal oppinion is SOE were under so much pressure to get the CU released, that they had inadequate time to factor jedi balance into the whole scheme of the normal professions, which is why jedi received so many patch changed in the months following the CU just to mak us barely viable. At this stage we are not balanced in terms of the wider game, and I think fixing the healer profession would benefit the integration into a fully balanced (as much as any mmorpg can be) game.

Regards,

BR

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Big-Rug wrote:

Of course I understand there are other things and other professions that need a good look at. For one as a long time Master Ranger and Squad Leader before I focussed on Jedi, I am overjoyed that those two professions are finally getting the focus and attention they deserve. If we can get the same sort of focus for Smugglers then SWG will be a better place to game. I was also pleased to see a new Creature Handler system put into place that looks exciting and definitely makes me want to have a go at CH at a later date with a toon.

However the fact remains that Master Healer is officially the least played profession in the game, even under Force Senstive Crafting! To me that screams out that there is a definite problem with the profession. So there needs to be something done to it, for the good of the game in terms of balance and variety. My personal oppinion is SOE were under so much pressure to get the CU released, that they had inadequate time to factor jedi balance into the whole scheme of the normal professions, which is why jedi received so many patch changed in the months following the CU just to mak us barely viable. At this stage we are not balanced in terms of the wider game, and I think fixing the healer profession would benefit the integration into a fully balanced (as much as any mmorpg can be) game.

Regards,

BR

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First paragraph totally clarifies your post to me, just glad to hear you say it. Very tired of the Jedi 'fix us first' garbage we always see here. I hate that 95% of this board can't see past themselves or their Jedi toon (thats supposed to be an alt anyways) for the betterment of the rest of the game. Not that you care, but your clarification earned you a ton of respect in my book man.

Am i dreaming? A postive and constructive post about a solution to an issue!

/pinch self

OMG I'm not

/faint

Great ideas! Considered Master Healer myself for a while since i like healing people
But it never seemed to have much going for it, but these ideas would make it a much
loved prof. And make choosing a Jedi template all the more harder!

as i can see it is very nice idea i just want to remove heal al stat and such to the master box as total heal

and the other about some kind of root is allready in enhancer

but the rest is a very nice boost to healer wich need great boost

just thought on something aswell why not somekind of speed debuff in tree3 like in tierr box 4 and not as powerful as CM but somthing like -25% speed debuff so we can debuff the force speed

I take on board your thoughts in total heal at master. On paper it seems like a lot all at once. Basically it boils down to 2 options: you either give a lot of benefits for the current 800 force cost and mind/action cost - after all what I have put down is little more than is currently advertised in the master box - the differences being snares and roots are removed (fair I think as BF was removed from the game) and all of the states are healed, not just the pre-cu ones (which is what is meant to be now, except the ability is broken).

The other option is to reduce the benefits to simply healing and let the 0004 tree cater for states. If this is the case the force and mind costs need to be lowered accordingly.

Also, regarding the issue of the root.. this is intended to supplement the jedi healer's role as a group support and crowd control backup character. Yes enhancer has a root, but that does not mean healer should not - for example if you were rifleman/carbineer you would have the ability to use 2 snares. My point is even though the jedi professions are all under a jedi banner, they are all professions in their own right, and should be balanced their individual role as well as balanced in a wider scpoe when used together and with other non-jedi professions. I see the root entangle as a very in-theme power that will give jedi players a lot more options when choosing their template - you wont always have to go for enhancer if you want a root.

Enhancer will still have its own benefits from personal buffs on top of a root and an effective snare. The Enhancer should be the true crowd control aspect of Jedi, but that doesnt mean healer cannot have 1 skill that lets them perform a backup role.

*Edit* I read your comments on a speed debuff - and I have included that in the morichro ability at master healer. Including it at a lower level would mean the trees would become cluttered with skills, and make some trees wholely too powerful when considered by themselves. So in the realms of balance it seems better to me to make a signiature Power that can be given at the Master box, and as such make it poweful enough to make people think 'wow what a cool ability, that makes me consider getting master healer.'

Regards,

BR

Message Edited by Big-Rug on 09-17-2005 12:52 PM

when you put it like this i have to agree with you

but if you give all those skills to master healer i think it might get to powerful

but with the right balance it might be perfect

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lovisa wrote:

when you put it like this i have to agree with you

but if you give all those skills to master healer i think it might get to powerful

but with the right balance it might be perfect

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i think some of these ideas are very nice, but tbh, a long wait for you to have such changes to happen