Jedi Archive
Thread: defender is inate, enhancer is using the force
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GeckoFighter
Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:43 am
#2
defender is sheer toughness, a defender doesnt need to use the force to modify his toughness. therefor Force Aura and Force Valor need to be nmoved to Enhancer because they 'enhancer' a defensive ability of the jedi. Since enhancer focuses on enhancing offensive and defensive powers it only makes sense to move those two moves into the enhancer tree. Defender doesnt need the extra defense in an enhancement, but it should be put in there as an inate, always active skill. (mabey not the 500 defense from aura but possibly 250 or so like center of being)
Defenders should be given the values of aura and valor as an inate ability, the only move that should cost them force (besides saber specials and heals) is Avoid Incap.
Enhancers should recieve Aura and Valor because it qualifys as their skill, using the force to enhance their mind and body for defense/offense
I was a defender and an enhancer, and i see no problem or nerf with this suggestion.
Leiowyn
Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:01 am
#3
All well and good but i can see your proposal being unbalanced and everyone taking defender as there would be no fc associated with it.
Postman_Splat
Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:02 am
#4
But with this then you have the problem of big FOTM style templates, Dabblers will be able to get a crap load more skills to use and asfor a double mastry jedi they will become pretty much useless.
FOTM is all well and good but tbh i cant see myself grinding a new emplate every month or two, im just gunna stick with what i have, MLS MDF enhan 2xxx healer 3xxx.
and if you take away my valor and aura i will kill you 
BooleScaric
Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:05 am
#5
GeckoFighter wrote:
defender is sheer toughness, a defender doesnt need to use the force to modify his toughness. therefor Force Aura and Force Valor need to be nmoved to Enhancer because they 'enhancer' a defensive ability of the jedi. Since enhancer focuses on enhancing offensive and defensive powers it only makes sense to move those two moves into the enhancer tree. Defender doesnt need the extra defense in an enhancement, but it should be put in there as an inate, always active skill. (mabey not the 500 defense from aura but possibly 250 or so like center of being)
Defenders should be given the values of aura and valor as an inate ability, the only move that should cost them force (besides saber specials and heals) is Avoid Incap.
Enhancers should recieve Aura and Valor because it qualifys as their skill, using the force to enhance their mind and body for defense/offense
I was a defender and an enhancer, and i see no problem or nerf with this suggestion.
uhhmm.. you are enhancer right?
But defender ia all about defense, so give ForceArmor to Defender and all Resistence against Bleed etc. to defender.. you see it works vice versa (and not as passive skills).
Spreading some Defense to 2 Professions is a reason for getting more variaty throughout the jedi.
Message Edited by BooleScaric on 09-19-2005 11:07 AM
Durzel
Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:06 am
#6
Leiowyn wrote:All well and good but i can see your proposal being unbalanced and everyone taking defender as there would be no fc associated with it.
The FC of Aura is negligible. Can't remember the FC of Valor off hand but I don't think its particularly bad.
Most people I've seen run Aura/Infusion on a constant macro so the FC can't be that bad.
I agree with your points as it happens, Aura and Valor should technically both be in the Enhancer tree.
GeckoFighter
Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:15 am
#7
BooleScaric wrote:
GeckoFighter wrote:
defender is sheer toughness, a defender doesnt need to use the force to modify his toughness. therefor Force Aura and Force Valor need to be nmoved to Enhancer because they 'enhancer' a defensive ability of the jedi. Since enhancer focuses on enhancing offensive and defensive powers it only makes sense to move those two moves into the enhancer tree. Defender doesnt need the extra defense in an enhancement, but it should be put in there as an inate, always active skill. (mabey not the 500 defense from aura but possibly 250 or so like center of being)
Defenders should be given the values of aura and valor as an inate ability, the only move that should cost them force (besides saber specials and heals) is Avoid Incap.
Enhancers should recieve Aura and Valor because it qualifys as their skill, using the force to enhance their mind and body for defense/offense
I was a defender and an enhancer, and i see no problem or nerf with this suggestion.
uhhmm.. you are enhancer right?
But defender ia all about defense, so give ForceArmor to Defender and all Resistence against Bleed etc. to defender.. you see it works vice versa (and not as passive skills).
Spreading some Defense to 2 Professions is a reason for getting more variaty throughout the jedi.
Message Edited by BooleScaric on 09-19-2005 11:07 AM
it should be inate, aura and valor are enhancements witch compliments a totally different profession. you dont see what im going for, force armor is an enhancement using the force, so is force aura so it means it doesnt belong in defender
defender needs to have an inate aura and valor. its not meant to be activated, enhancer abilities are meant to be activated.
Aura and Valor should compliment enhancer because it infact uses force cost to activate, defender shouldnt have hardly any FC associated with the profession besides sabers and healing.
Add an inate saber block and aura, it wont delve into fotm professions because it will still maintain its original (or close to original) defense capabilities. It doesnt make sense that you would put force armor in defender, because defender doesnt need to use the force to enhance the defense because its inate
Defender doesnt get changed, all previous abilites are INATE and enhancer gets the activations.
Leiowyn
Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:16 am
#8
Durzel wrote:
Leiowyn wrote:
All well and good but i can see your proposal being unbalanced and everyone taking defender as there would be no fc associated with it.
The FC of Aura is negligible. Can't remember the FC of Valor off hand but I don't think its particularly bad.
Most people I've seen run Aura/Infusion on a constant macro so the FC can't be that bad.
I agree with your points as it happens, Aura and Valor should technically both be in the Enhancer tree.
At the moment valor has a damage reduction with it. Making it inate will remove that, making it unbalanced for ppl that don't have def, or that line of it. I'm worried that it would further take away from ability of ppl to be able to choose templates that they find fun, because they cannot compete any other way.
Durzel
Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:19 am
#9
Leiowyn wrote:
Durzel wrote:
Leiowyn wrote:
All well and good but i can see your proposal being unbalanced and everyone taking defender as there would be no fc associated with it.
The FC of Aura is negligible. Can't remember the FC of Valor off hand but I don't think its particularly bad.
Most people I've seen run Aura/Infusion on a constant macro so the FC can't be that bad.
I agree with your points as it happens, Aura and Valor should technically both be in the Enhancer tree.
At the moment valor has a damage reduction with it. Making it inate will remove that, making it unbalanced for ppl that don't have def, or that line of it. I'm worried that it would further take away from ability of ppl to be able to choose templates that they find fun, because they cannot compete any other way.
Imp Valor doesn't have a damage reduction. It probably should (given FR2 and FR3 do), but it doesn't. Imp Valor is actually pretty godly because of this non-damage reduction.
Duskya
Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:36 am
#10
GeckoFighter wrote:
defender is sheer toughness, a defender doesnt need to use the force to modify his toughness. therefor Force Aura and Force Valor need to be nmoved to Enhancer because they 'enhancer' a defensive ability of the jedi. Since enhancer focuses on enhancing offensive and defensive powers it only makes sense to move those two moves into the enhancer tree. Defender doesnt need the extra defense in an enhancement, but it should be put in there as an inate, always active skill. (mabey not the 500 defense from aura but possibly 250 or so like center of being)
Defenders should be given the values of aura and valor as an inate ability, the only move that should cost them force (besides saber specials and heals) is Avoid Incap.
Enhancers should recieve Aura and Valor because it qualifys as their skill, using the force to enhance their mind and body for defense/offense
I was a defender and an enhancer, and i see no problem or nerf with this suggestion.
or move force armor to the defender, whats ur point?
Durzel
Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:41 am
#11
His point (if you bothered to read it) was that Force Armor expends force when you are hit, Aura expends force when you activate it, Valor expends force when you activate it.
Those three skills, logically speaking anyway, are "enhancement" skills - they enhance your existing innate Jedi defences.
Now, if they were just moved to Enhancer without any counter-balance (giving Defenders the equivalent innate armor/melee & ranged defence and lowering the effectiveness of Aura/Valor in the Enh tree to make it "not quite equivalent to Defender") then there would be problems.
The OP point is that if you look at it objectively - Aura, Armor, Valor are all skills that use up Force points, and augment your existing defences - hence they should by all rights be in the Enhancer tree.
Try looking beyond "just moving the skills and leaving them as-is" before jumping on your high horse please..
Those three skills, logically speaking anyway, are "enhancement" skills - they enhance your existing innate Jedi defences.
Now, if they were just moved to Enhancer without any counter-balance (giving Defenders the equivalent innate armor/melee & ranged defence and lowering the effectiveness of Aura/Valor in the Enh tree to make it "not quite equivalent to Defender") then there would be problems.
The OP point is that if you look at it objectively - Aura, Armor, Valor are all skills that use up Force points, and augment your existing defences - hence they should by all rights be in the Enhancer tree.
Try looking beyond "just moving the skills and leaving them as-is" before jumping on your high horse please..
GeckoFighter
Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:52 am
#12
Durzel wrote:
His point (if you bothered to read it) was that Force Armor expends force when you are hit, Aura expends force when you activate it, Valor expends force when you activate it.
Those three skills, logically speaking anyway, are "enhancement" skills - they enhance your existing innate Jedi defences.
Now, if they were just moved to Enhancer without any counter-balance (giving Defenders the equivalent innate armor/melee & ranged defence and lowering the effectiveness of Aura/Valor in the Enh tree to make it "not quite equivalent to Defender") then there would be problems.
The OP point is that if you look at it objectively - Aura, Armor, Valor are all skills that use up Force points, and augment your existing defences - hence they should by all rights be in the Enhancer tree.
Try looking beyond "just moving the skills and leaving them as-is" before jumping on your high horse please..
finally one person that gets it.
GeckoFighter
Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:56 am
#13
its very simple, i dont understand why one person gets it and the rest dont. i guess its the whole 'move from this tree into the other' that gets people confused and thus they dont read the whole post....
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