Jedi Archive
Thread: Pearl Drops SOE's Intellectual Dishonesty
Page 1 of 2
YarKi
Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:41 am
#1
I feel there are serious logical inconsistancies in the most recent post by Tiggs regarding this issue.
Lets take a look at the post in detail.
The "rare" pearls are simply ones which dropped from very high level creatures. What changed was that combat upgrade altered the levels of creatures. So where a pearl might before have been considered "premium" because it dropped from a level 287 creature, now it isn't considered premium because the creature dropping the pearl isn't level 287 any more.
Ok so far so good. This was postulated as a theory on this forum a while ago. It matches the observable behaviour and it is nice to ge the confirmation. However it is important to note that in terms of relative difficulty the Krayts are about where they were pre-CU - that is a lot of combat elite templates can solo Juvies, some can solo Dune and Giants. Small groups of 2-4 can hunt all Krayt types witl little or no difficulty. That is what I experienced pre-CU and that is what I am seeing now. So while some "magical" number changed - the challenge level did not.
The possible stats that a pearl can give you are the same, regardless of the pearl quality. The only advantage a "premium" pearl gives you is a better chance of getting higher stats.
Again a useful piece of information that is confirmed by the observable behavior in the game. The tricky bit here is the one about "better chance of getting higher stats". I have a limmited experience with pre-CU pearls (I wish I had more of them then I did). But in my experience it would be accurate to say "immensly better chance of getting higher stats." Actually I am yet to tune a post-CU pearl to overall quality of my pre-CU premiums although some came close on one or two stats (and sadly my pre-CU pearls tuned only ok).
But here is where I think we start getting into realms of strange logic.
"Fixing pearls" would be a matter of changing the level ranges for different quality pearls. This would be a retroactive change which would suddenly change all the pearls in the game to be high-level pearls, increasing the power of Jedi globally and almost instantly - Unless we simultaneously lowered the advantage of premium pearls so that they don't give as much an increase to the odds of getting higher stats as they do now.
I think there are several logical fallacies that are bundled together in this one statement.
Follow me on this:
If the tuning quality of the pearl is based on the CL of the creature that dropped it (as stated by Tiggs) then there is no reason why the formulacould not be easilly adjustedto pre-CU results - those being - Quality dropping off Juvies, Premiums off the Canyons and Giants and Flawless off Aincients. Since all of thosecrittershave different CLs it is only a question of tweaking some numbers to achieve the desired results. There is no reason why Juvies would all of the sudden drop flawless for instance as is implied by the statement above. Note that the change would only affect either the freshly dropped pearls if the calculation is done at the time of the loot drop. Or all untuned pearls if the calculation is done at the moment of the tune. In either case there is no issue of pre-CU pearls significantly unbalancing the new calculaition. THere is barely a handful of untuned pre-CU pearls left on any of the serrvers.
Next comes the issue of "increasing the power of Jedi globally and almost instantly". I am not exactly clear on that whole "almost instatly" part to start with. With the drop rate (not quality for the moment, just the drop rate) being what it is, it would take some time for all the Jedi to swap out their pearls. Besides the most Jedi could achieve is what many Jedi with pre-CU pearls already have....So is Tiggs saying that Jedi with pre-CU pearls are not properly balanced? That there is an issue with pre-CU pearls? Because they had an opportunity to address that in the CU conversion. But that is not what he is saying, is it? In fact if pre-CU tuning levels were an issue - then they would have lowered the potential tunes on the new pearls. And according to Tiggs the maximum levels are still the same.
We would rather keep the premium pearls as they are - highly desirable and much better (in terms of the odds of getting higher stats) than normal pearls, but not drop them as casually as they dropped in the past. These should be rare, elite quest rewards and very high-end, elite-monster drops - not things that players "farm" from creatures that are no match for the player.
Once again the challenge levels of krayts have not changed from pre-CU.They are about as hard to kill as they used to be regardless of whan number is didplayed next to them. However for some reason SOE feels justified in reducing the rewards...for Jedi. Non-Jedi can loot countless slicing components that can further improve their already superior weapons. But hey do not forget we are 1.5 of any other elite combat profession. In conclusion I would like to tranlate the whole thing for those of you not versed in SOE doublespeak.
"Dear full template Jedi players. Congratulations, you have completed the only end-game content that we have available. Since GCW is a useless joke and we are unable to come up with any interesting PvE content to save our lives- your new end-game isconstructing a viable weapon. To do so you will have to hunt countless mobs hoping first fora rare drop of a pearl ora crystal and then for an unlikely decent tune. Isn't this fun? But hey mindless slaugther of countless creatures is how you became a Jedi in the first place so it should all be familiar to you by now. See, how accomodating we are to you. And for as long as you contunue to pay your monthly fee we will continue to accomodate you as we do now."
mauvros
Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:43 am
#2
"Dear full template Jedi players. Congratulations, you have completed the only end-game content that we have available. Since GCW is a useless joke and we are unable to come up with any interesting PvE content to save our lives- your new end-game isconstructing a viable weapon. To do so you will have to hunt countless mobs hoping first fora rare drop of a pearl ora crystal and then for an unlikely decent tune. Isn't this fun? But hey mindless slaugther of countless creatures is how you became a Jedi in the first place so it should all be familiar to you by now. See, how accomodating we are to you. And for as long as you contunue to pay your monthly fee we will continue to accomodate you as we do now."
Welcome to every MMO that has ever been developed. If you can figure out how to slow progress without the grind then please fill in the Devs because you will have the greatest MMO ever.
Message Edited by mauvros on 09-06-2005 11:43 AM
TaloKarrde
Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:02 pm
#3
post-cu jedi are screwed and thats it
for now
unless we have enough money to buy enough pre-cu pearls to get a decent saber (compared to pre-cu sabers)
hopefully ToOW will somehow fix this, but I doubt it
for now
unless we have enough money to buy enough pre-cu pearls to get a decent saber (compared to pre-cu sabers)
hopefully ToOW will somehow fix this, but I doubt it
WookieOgre
Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:03 pm
#4
YarKi wrote:
But here is where I think we start getting into realms of strange logic.
"Fixing pearls" would be a matter of changing the level ranges for different quality pearls. This would be a retroactive change which would suddenly change all the pearls in the game to be high-level pearls, increasing the power of Jedi globally and almost instantly - Unless we simultaneously lowered the advantage of premium pearls so that they don't give as much an increase to the odds of getting higher stats as they do now.
I think there are several logical fallacies that are bundled together in this one statement.
Follow me on this:
If the tuning quality of the pearl is based on the CL of the creature that dropped it (as stated by Tiggs) then there is no reason why the formulacould not be easilly adjustedto pre-CU results - those being - Quality dropping off Juvies, Premiums off the Canyons and Giants and Flawless off Aincients. Since all of thosecrittershave different CLs it is only a question of tweaking some numbers to achieve the desired results. There is no reason why Juvies would all of the sudden drop flawless for instance as is implied by the statement above. Note that the change would only affect either the freshly dropped pearls if the calculation is done at the time of the loot drop. Or all untuned pearls if the calculation is done at the moment of the tune. In either case there is no issue of pre-CU pearls significantly unbalancing the new calculaition. THere is barely a handful of untuned pre-CU pearls left on any of the serrvers.
Next comes the issue of "increasing the power of Jedi globally and almost instantly". I am not exactly clear on that whole "almost instatly" part to start with. With the drop rate (not quality for the moment, just the drop rate) being what it is, it would take some time for all the Jedi to swap out their pearls. Besides the most Jedi could achieve is what many Jedi with pre-CU pearls already have....So is Tiggs saying that Jedi with pre-CU pearls are not properly balanced? That there is an issue with pre-CU pearls? Because they had an opportunity to address that in the CU conversion. But that is not what he is saying, is it? In fact if pre-CU tuning levels were an issue - then they would have lowered the potential tunes on the new pearls. And according to Tiggs the maximum levels are still the same.
I think you misunderstood what she was talking about. To me I read this and came away with the following:
1) Devs could raise the level of a Krayt to drop Prem pearls again JUST like DJK/DJM were dropping prem Crystals at the begining of the CURB.
2) Devs think prem dropped too casually. They want to make them rare.
3) They refuse to raise the CL of a Kryat due to #2 BUT they also invented another reason, saying if they bumped up the level of all Krayt in game it will retroactively make all Pearls that dropped from these lesser ones suddenly turn to Prem quality.
Now that is where I call BS. If #3 was infact true, when they nerfed the CL of DJK/DJM the 10 prem Crystals I had looted would have all turned to 'good' quality. Can anyone guess what actually happened.......that's right they remained prem. Not only was I able to trade for ADK's a nice Barc Speeder (my favorite transportation) but I was also able to help a friend who unlocked Jedi that week. Three weeks later he is a finished template with a pretty good saber lol.
The highlighted part is just one of many reasonswhy you have no more prem pearls dropping.
Schadwe13
Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:27 pm
#5
WookieOgre wrote:
YarKi wrote:
But here is where I think we start getting into realms of strange logic."Fixing pearls" would be a matter of changing the level ranges for different quality pearls. This would be a retroactive change which would suddenly change all the pearls in the game to be high-level pearls, increasing the power of Jedi globally and almost instantly - Unless we simultaneously lowered the advantage of premium pearls so that they don't give as much an increase to the odds of getting higher stats as they do now.I think there are several logical fallacies that are bundled together in this one statement.Follow me on this:If the tuning quality of the pearl is based on the CL of the creature that dropped it (as stated by Tiggs) then there is no reason why the formula could not be easilly adjusted to pre-CU results - those being - Quality dropping off Juvies, Premiums off the Canyons and Giants and Flawless off Aincients. Since all of those critters have different CLs it is only a question of tweaking some numbers to achieve the desired results. There is no reason why Juvies would all of the sudden drop flawless for instance as is implied by the statement above. Note that the change would only affect either the freshly dropped pearls if the calculation is done at the time of the loot drop. Or all untuned pearls if the calculation is done at the moment of the tune. In either case there is no issue of pre-CU pearls significantly unbalancing the new calculaition. THere is barely a handful of untuned pre-CU pearls left on any of the serrvers.Next comes the issue of "increasing the power of Jedi globally and almost instantly". I am not exactly clear on that whole "almost instatly" part to start with. With the drop rate (not quality for the moment, just the drop rate) being what it is, it would take some time for all the Jedi to swap out their pearls. Besides the most Jedi could achieve is what many Jedi with pre-CU pearls already have....So is Tiggs saying that Jedi with pre-CU pearls are not properly balanced? That there is an issue with pre-CU pearls? Because they had an opportunity to address that in the CU conversion. But that is not what he is saying, is it? In fact if pre-CU tuning levels were an issue - then they would have lowered the potential tunes on the new pearls. And according to Tiggs the maximum levels are still the same.
I think you misunderstood what she was talking about. To me I read this and came away with the following:1) Devs could raise the level of a Krayt to drop Prem pearls again JUST like DJK/DJM were dropping prem Crystals at the begining of the CURB.2) Devs think prem dropped too casually. They want to make them rare.3) They refuse to raise the CL of a Kryat due to #2 BUT they also invented another reason, saying if they bumped up the level of all Krayt in game it will retroactively make all Pearls that dropped from these lesser ones suddenly turn to Prem quality.Now that is where I call BS. If #3 was infact true, when they nerfed the CL of DJK/DJM the 10 prem Crystals I had looted would have all turned to 'good' quality. Can anyone guess what actually happened.......that's right they remained prem. Not only was I able to trade for ADK's a nice Barc Speeder (my favorite transportation) but I was also able to help a friend who unlocked Jedi that week. Three weeks later he is a finished template with a pretty good saber lol.The highlighted part is just one of many reasons why you have no more prem pearls dropping.
3 weeks later? Yea, there will ALWAYS be someone who can grind 24/7 and get to the finish line before anyone else. It's been that way in EVERY MMORPG. But, does that mean the devs should punnish everyone else for this?? The majority of the players cannot get a full Jedi template in 3 weeks because of time contraints in RL. Please stop perpetuating this myth that it is "insanely easy" to grind. All it will yield is more nerfing for everyone else.
-Snipe
Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:33 pm
#6
WookieOgre wrote:
Uninformed wrote:
The real intellectual dishonesty is that EVERY PVE ENCOUNTER IS FARMABLE, even on timers. Look at Necrosis.
So the rationale doesn't hold water.
None of it does.
Why don't premiums drop? Because they dont want them to. That's it.
This I believe is more correct. Every PvE encounter no mater what the creature/npc is farmable.
Technically BH missions are farmable, N-K is farmable (lol, I was soloing this guy every 20 mins), and yes even the mighty Krayts are farmable.
The thing is they shove this new combat system out there yet they failed to address how a SINGLE player can solo almost anything. With the removal of the unhealable MIND pool, they've made the problem worse. Now with reguards to our sabers, Devs probably wised up after the Kryat boom (when a lot of Jedi got their sabers) and decided the way to control Jedi is not by limited the numbers, it's by making the majority of them combat handicapped.
As you said, they don't drop premiums because they don't want them to. That's all it boils down to.
could'nt agree more.
Is it just me or does anyone else think that they spend as much time coming up with lame reasons why they cant do something or trying to stall with some round about BS than what it would actually take to fix the problem?
MrShipWright
Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:34 pm
#7
omg give up how many posts on this issue intil you guys shut up about it.
KaliMaul
Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:38 pm
#8
The real fun was their first response. This is an issue that we know about and blah blah blah. After that post, they changed the loot table like 20 times, they added the BH loot, removed the cave loots, etc. If SOE did care about customers, they would give us all 4 flawless pearls (if it really was a bug that couldn't have been fixed). Now we just see that we are forced to pvp with the worst weapons ingame, and BHs still want to nerf our escape abilities...
WookieOgre
Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:43 pm
#9
Schadwe13 wrote:
3 weeks later? Yea, there will ALWAYS be someone who can grind 24/7 and get to the finish line before anyone else. It's been that way in EVERY MMORPG. But, does that mean the devs should punnish everyone else for this?? The majority of the players cannot get a full Jedi template in 3 weeks because of time contraints in RL. Please stop perpetuating this myth that it is "insanely easy" to grind. All it will yield is more nerfing for everyone else.
Problem is if they don't change something before you know they'll wake up tommorrow and find that the majority of the people in the game ONLY play their Jedi.
That's why the profession has been nerfed piece by piece and it's also the reason we find ourselves in the situation of no good pearls dropping.
I agree RL makes 3 weeks imposssible for a lot of people, but 3 weeks was impossible pre-CURB unless you exploited. Right now you can do it and it's legit. That's the difference and it's also just ONE of the reasons why they probably nerfed the pearl drops. Let me stress one of the reasons lol.
MrShipWright
Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:51 pm
#11
rscheibler wrote:
/beatDeadHorse
rscheibler wrote:
/beatDeadHorse
rscheibler wrote:
/beatDeadHorse
rscheibler wrote:
/beatDeadHorse
KaliMaul
Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:52 pm
#12
WookieOgre wrote:
Schadwe13 wrote:
3 weeks later? Yea, there will ALWAYS be someone who can grind 24/7 and get to the finish line before anyone else. It's been that way in EVERY MMORPG. But, does that mean the devs should punnish everyone else for this?? The majority of the players cannot get a full Jedi template in 3 weeks because of time contraints in RL. Please stop perpetuating this myth that it is "insanely easy" to grind. All it will yield is more nerfing for everyone else.
Problem is if they don't change something before you know they'll wake up tommorrow and find that the majority of the people in the game ONLY play their Jedi.
That's why the profession has been nerfed piece by piece and it's also the reason we find ourselves in the situation of no good pearls dropping.
I agree RL makes 3 weeks imposssible for a lot of people, but 3 weeks was impossible pre-CURB unless you exploited. Right now you can do it and it's legit. That's the difference and it's also just ONE of the reasons why they probably nerfed the pearl drops. Let me stress one of the reasons lol.
So... I'm a veteran player. I've been playing my char for a lot longer than any of my jedi friends had. After more than one and a half year becoming a jedi seemed to be the only possible endgame. I became a jedi a few months after CU hit, and I didn't even thought about farming pearls when the CU was close. I was like "well I have 2 months that should be enough for some krayting". So my reward for chosing to play my character and not becoming a jedi for a very long time is a 220 dps saber? Come on...
awentwor
Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:43 pm
#13
The highlighted part above says it all... elite quest rewards and elite monster drops. I'm wondering what kind of dragons we will see on the new planet for the expansion. Not fixing the current pearls drops almost ensures that jedi will buy the new expansion if there is just the hint that their premium pearls will be found there. That is probably the main reason pearls aren't being fixed in the current game... if you can get your perfect saber already, what use would the expansion hold?
YarKi wrote:
We would rather keep the premium pearls as they are - highly desirable and much better (in terms of the odds of getting higher stats) than normal pearls, but not drop them as casually as they dropped in the past. These should be rare, elite quest rewards and very high-end, elite-monster drops - not things that players "farm" from creatures that are no match for the player.
Once again the challenge levels of krayts have not changed from pre-CU.They are about as hard to kill as they used to be regardless of whan number is didplayed next to them. However for some reason SOE feels justified in reducing the rewards...for Jedi. Non-Jedi can loot countless slicing components that can further improve their already superior weapons. But hey do not forget we are 1.5 of any other elite combat profession. In conclusion I would like to tranlate the whole thing for those of you not versed in SOE doublespeak.
Page 1 of 2