Jedi Archive
Thread: Official list of common Jedi Board Misconceptions
1) 4+1 Theory
Many people believe that you have 5 total professions you need to master. Holocrons keep telling you professions until you have one left, and that is your 'hidden' or 'silent' profession. Then, you need to random master professions until you unlock FSCS.
THIS THEORY IS UNTRUE
Someone recently used a 4th holocron. It told him COMBAT MEDIC. He had mastered 3 previous holocron professions. Frustrated with the outcome of the final holocron, he mastered other professions.
Then, wishing to continue on the path to Jedi, he used another holocron. IT WAS SILENT. This would mean, while mastering other professions, he found his 'hidden' profession. He then mastered Combat Medic, and recieved no FSCS.
WHAT THIS MEANS - There is a 4+X theory where X is greater than or equal to 1, there is other things besides profession masteries that matter, etc.
2) There is no pattern in Holocron Professions
THIS CAN NEVER BE PROVEN
You cannot prove something doesn't exist. You cannot prove there isn't life in any other galaxy, you cannot prove Iraq never had WMD's, and you cannot prove it is impossible to travel the speed of light.
Everything is just a mystery until it is found. The ONLY way you can prove ANYTHING is a statement from the Dev's themselves. The Dev's have NEVER stated there is no pattern anywhere, just that every person has a different way of reaching Jedi.
JUST BECAUSE A PATTERN HAS NOT BEEN DISCOVERED NOW, DOESN'T MEAN THERE ISN'T ONE.
There is no pattern until one is found. But, you CANNOT say there is no pattern. No one has proof there is none. Until the Dev's make a statement, this is just a rumor. So STOP insulting those who believe there IS a pattern. If you aren't a part of the solution, you are a part of the problem.
So please, lets stop thread crapping and have EVERYONE assume 4+1 which isn't true, and have everyone assume everything is random. These are both false.
/bump
If I see one more post of people assuming 4+1, or one more post of people saying everything is random, will make my head explode
If he opened a 4th holocron and it said Combat Medic, then if he didn't master it the next holocron he opened would have also said Combat Medic; like everyone else that uses one without matering their previous.
Sounds like he was bugged to me..
4+something is still viable until you can disprove it. 1 persons bug doesnt disprove that if you master nothing, holocrons will tell you 4 professions. The only thing we cannot say for sure is that theres only 1 hidden profession.
When I see a person with ONLY 5 mastered profession unlock then we can say that 4+1 is pretty solid. I don't think we will see anyone guess their hidden on a single mastery after mastering 4 holo professions and no other.
I am telling people that there is still a possibility of a pattern, someone using this information might continue to seek one and one day find it. If they are kept being told lies, they may never look for one.
They should stop looking for patterns and after their 4th or silent holocron, use their current professions to start mastering complementary professions. IF you went silent on Armorsmith, they should do weaponsmith, droid engineer, and architect.
And yes, the 4+1 theory is BS. It has been proven like this at least twice, people posting with the same scenario. Mastered 3 holocron professions, recieve a 4th profession, master OTHERS, use a holocron and have it go SILENT, master the 4th profession they are told before and not unlock.
I have seen nothing to prove that these "at least two" people were told a "fifth" hint that did not coincide w/ their previous holocron. If it is true, we can all start taking the metrics theory a bit more seriously.
Also, if you would have read THE WHOLE POST, you would have seen I said that there is most likely a 4+X pattern, where X >=1.
Again, you have "proof" of two people saying that they got something other then 4+1. So tell me, how did you determine that X can equal 1, 2, or 3? Seems like quite an assumption based on 2 users data.
X may be 1 for some, could be up to 3 for others.
Keep in mind friend, that just as you are sick of people hopping up and down screaming 4+1 there are just as many of us sick to death of people screaming, "OMG I found THE pattern! Give me Egoboo! (or Whuffies, intellectual currency, whatever).
Xader_Vartec wrote:
This is not true. You CAN prove that it is random using a signficant size sample and college level statistics. Many people have done this (including myself and requested a friend verify my results) and posted to the boards. Just because you don't understand the math behind it doesn't mean it's not true.
The data posted to the boards shows that the professions ARE random.
This must be the biggest joke post ever.
Either you have the IQ of a peanut or just another random troll.
JUST BECAUSE YOUR INABILITY TO FIND A PATTERN DOESN'T MEAN ONE DOES NOT EXIST. STATISTICS CAN'T PROVE OTHERWISE.
Just because no one has found a model that fits the data does NOT mean a model does not exist. PI existed before it was found, just no one found it for awhile. Before that, people thought the area/circum of circles was not based on its radius/diameter at all.
Go back to high school before you attack a post that you know nothing about
4+X is just a guess. It is a theory, just like 4+1.
Only difference is 4+1 was disproved, 4+X has not been.
4+X is still very generic, meaning it would take a lot to disprove it. I'm not suggesting 4+X as a solution to everyone's problem either, just a similar theory that has not been disproven.
How bout you answer my questions instead of repeating yourself.
4+1 Theory: OK I'm not saying it's 100% and its fact BUT all evidence except a few cases that you mention point toward the 4+1 theory. Now one can look at this one of two ways......either they were lying or telling the truth. Now this being a messageboard and all and this being a board where many post their frustration with the system and not finding their last profession or holocrons or whatever has em pissed, it is extremely likely that people lie on this board. What LIE? Yeah, lie! Frustration does that and the need for attention.
If they're telling the truth it doesn't mean beyond a shadow of a doubt that the 4+1 theory is wrong. Everything else in this **edit**ing game is buggy why wouldn't the Slot Unlocking system be buggy. Even the way the one guy did it could of caused a bug, not mastering what it told him and then going back to it later. If the the theory is incorrect so what. Its still just profession based until some schmuck masters every profession and doesn't have his slot. How do we know its not 4+1 for some and 4+2 for other and 4+3 for another group. The only people who ever opened the slot doing something besides mastering a profession were the first few Jedi and that was right after the devs threw the switch so the thing could even be unlocked, all they had to do was recordxp of some kind or do something that registers in the database and it opened(yes more speculation, but we know for a fact that the Jedi skill tree wasn't even in game till sometime in October).Until someone opens it doing something besides profession mastery then we have to believe its completely profession based.
Holocron spoke about the system in a thread not too long ago explaining why it was profession based and benefited achievers over other player types.
As far as the patterns go. Do we know for a fact a pattern doesn't exist? No. But we also don't know for a fact that Santa Claus isn't real. We can't prove he isn't. But we also shouldn't plan out xmas around him showing up either. If you have kids you might wanna go to that toystore and buy em stuff because if you're relying on a fat jolly old elf to show up and do it for ya, you're gonna have disappointed children on xmas day. The point is,until there is more proof of the existance of a pattern people shouldn't plan for others to find one, rely on it to find their profession or assume that once they get the silent holocron they can find one. For a pattern to be real it has to at least work most of the time, from what I've seen its helped a hand full of people and thats it. Just because it worked for someone doesn't mean its true. If you look hard enough and you're paranoid enough you can find a pattern in anything. People see what they want to see.
Riddix wrote:
You are proving randomness in nature, and that is exactly not what Albion was talking about. In computers, programming, etc...random number generatorsMUST start with a given string. You cannot get nothing from nothing, as computers can't think for themselves. They only do what we tell them to do. That given, they are not technically random... but they can provide enormous odds that make guessing seem impossible.. therefore given a "random" feel. So, you are correct in your particle example, as Albion is correct in his own example. Sorry to burst your bubble, but you are comparing apples to hotdog buns.
Thummp wrote:
Albion. You could not be more wrong. Take a physics class and study how subatomic particles behave. Examine what happens when you try to determine the EXACT position of an electron at a certain point in time. Do a search on heisenberg.
A random number generator that seeds off of fan noise is pretty damned random. Or do you think you can predict fan noise? Besides, usually we use the term 'sufficiently random'. Which means you can mimin the fan noise with forum posts, but it still won't reliably tell you how to unlock the slot.
--Thummp
Sorry, Riddix, but you apparently haven't been keeping up to speed on the world of random number generators.
Please see http://www.intel.com/design/security/rng/rnghow.htm
The Intel 810 and later chipsets (starting with Celeron, IIRC) provide access to a thermal noise random number generator.
This meets all practical tests for "random", and is not algorithmically driven to produce its results (the results aren't dependent on a "seed"). Hence, it is precisely the sort of real-world example of randomness referenced earlier.
Hope this helps.
Lowca_Fatal wrote:
4+X is just a guess. It is a theory, just like 4+1.
Only difference is 4+1 was disproved, 4+X has not been.
4+X is still very generic, meaning it would take a lot to disprove it. I'm not suggesting 4+X as a solution to everyone's problem either, just a similar theory that has not been disproven.
4+1 cannot be disproved by one instance. Because that one instance could be a bug with the character. Lord knows there are other bugs with just single characters.
Also, there has been no proof of this instance.
Exterminans77 wrote:
As far as the patterns go. Do we know for a fact a pattern doesn't exist? No.
Wrong. Your "belief" is not dependent on mathematics. The truth of the matter is that my friend (a graduate level math student) and I have run numbers on information posted to these boards and determined that it IS random.
Whether you believe in it or not does not change the fact that it is fact. You might not believe that the earth is round but that doesn't make it flat.
Xader_Vartec wrote:
Lowca_Fatal wrote:
4+X is just a guess. It is a theory, just like 4+1.
Only difference is 4+1 was disproved, 4+X has not been.
4+X is still very generic, meaning it would take a lot to disprove it. I'm not suggesting 4+X as a solution to everyone's problem either, just a similar theory that has not been disproven.
4+1 cannot be disproved by one instance. Because that one instance could be a bug with the character. Lord knows there are other bugs with just single characters.
Also, there has been no proof of this instance.
It has been at least 2, and there exists a 4+X model that fits all the old data and the new data.
That is enough to disprove it. If people are mastering 5 professions (ALL of which they needed) and not unlocking, then 4+1 doesn't add up buddy.
Lowca_Fatal wrote:
And yes, the 4+1 theory is BS. It has been proven like this at least twice, people posting with the same scenario. Mastered 3 holocron professions, recieve a 4th profession, master OTHERS, use a holocron and have it go SILENT, master the 4th profession they are told before and not unlock.
Can you provide a link for this claim? If you read the master list of Jedi there are approximately 100 people for whom the 4+1 has been accurate. I'd like proof or at least a link to someones claim that the 4+1 has been disproven.