Jedi Archive
Thread: AI Nerf, New Master Defender Ability?
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KalamMerkor
Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:27 am
#1
For a long time Master Defender has had one ability, AI, and for a long time because of its supremacy this was enough no defender could complain. Come the cu we got 3 new moves but this is nothing to compare to the 26 the enhancer proffession has all together. But still with ai and aura defenders couldnt complain, valor less useful vs jedi and ranged taunt nice but not greatly needed but still ai was strong enough to make up for this.
Now however master defender is getting closer and closer to thedefence of dabbler templates with no real bonus. Dabblers can get aura and some nice defences, and at master what is there gunna be shortly? Avoid incap which cant be used in pve (due to non-agro) or in pvp most of the time (due to the snare). Other masteries such as enhancer or mls atleast have some bonus to taking the master box, regain consciousnes, Fr3, stasis... dervish adv sabre throw more dmg + spd. But defender is soon going to have little benifit for master other than a little bit more defence, for which alot has to be sacrificed.
So.. Defender needs a new reason to be master, since its main move has been nerfed, and i think most pre-cu defenders would agree they did not want aura or valor or dominate mind especially as a trade off for ai.
What do you think a good new master defender ability would be?
This abilities objectives would be to:
1. NOT make defender new ftw, not a i win move to be grieved about and to have to be nerfed.
2. To spice up defender and bring it in line with the skills of other proffesions.
3. To bring more point of Defender being Defender atm defender only defends himself maybe it would be nice for a defender to defend someone else for a change.
4. Equate the master box of defender to the master box of enhancer, a skill like regain consciousness which isnt all that powerful but is useful.
5. Neither Fubar or uber lame something to brighten up game rather than dominate it 
Suggestions so far for master defender abilities (My thoughts in red):
1. Advanced aura + valor combo (Kamujin) (Atm dabblers can easily get the defensive abilities a master defender has - other than ai - it would be good to move or create a new defensive ability like these in the master box. But questions of strength and combining with normal aura might make it inpractical and unbalancing for another such ability in master defender)
2. Aoe aura (D-frost) (A good idea to take away defender from a purely solo role, issues of how effective this would be though would have to be addressed, and exploitabilty like bh's using defenders heh. Has good potential but could be a bit complicated in implication, questions of whether this would stack with normal aura would also be brought into the arena)
3. A skill which is good but only lasts a short time and has a big cool down so it isnt too strong. (Hydro) (Certainly one way to prevent a new skill being a move everyone wants is to not make it useless but to make it scarce enough to be useful but not a must I win button)
4. i. Force Power Boost, Enhances Health at SACRIFICE to mind/action regen (wolfe) (I like the idea of sacrifice skills, they offer the chance to give good skills with big penalties, main problem is exploitability)
4. ii. Improved Force Warcry (Aoe??) - Delay ability (wolfe) (Everyone loved warcry but i have a feeling taking it out probably means the devs dont want it back like it was before, and surely this would be a powers power?)
4. iii. Aoe taunt (wolfe) (This would be nice though single taunt works quite well atm and i dont think such an ability could really compare to the likes or regain conscious and fr3)
5. Ability to remove all state affects (kracken) (I prefer the idea of remove all movement hinderances etc, healer alrdy has remove all states)
6. Shot reflection, Riposte, an ability to not only block but also reflect dmg, (Vaashtkk Ib) (A nice idea fits into defender template atatcking through defence, sounds a bit like a counter attack ability)
7.Abilities like squadleader to affect a grps defence rather than only the defenders. (Trinity) (Would make sense with all the new squadleader changes, i like the idea of defender being able to influence a few people rather than a whole grp like specific buffs like squadleader, obviously this would have to be a scale to not make defenders a must be in pvp. Though there usually is a defeneder about)
8. Adv aura ability - increased defence- in master box (master) (Again a nice idea to differenciate master defender from dabbler)
9.Increase inate defences to a level to compensate for lack ofgd skills, and togive a reason to be master defender not just dabbler. (Tarn) (This would be great to bring inline master defender with its strength pre-cu and to compensate for ai nerf)
10. i. Areas shield - protect friendly targets with increased defences (possibly 100) (Naughty Rocket) (Nice idea like area aura, gives defender more than a singleminded focus.)
10. ii. Force Rage - Imune to Dots, state effects + movement hinderence for 2 mins with big force cost. (Naughty Rocket) (This is one of my favourates defenderhas no fr or cloak and atm if itssnared with ai snare even with low fr ya cant do alot, it makes sense that a mgiht defender could push forward for a short time)
10. iii. Force Sacrifice - Restores health of group members, increase acc and defences and regen for 3 mins but kills defender, would need some penalty like cant clone for 3 minutes either. (A nice idea though it could be exploited alot, defender might become the new health holocron lol, the idea of last ditch fighting though is nice)
10. iv. Force Symbosis - Links defender with other jedi, sharing force pool, health mind and action at 1000fc. (lasts 10 minutes) (A good idea for putting more depth to defender, defending not only yourself but another ally)
11. Move improved valor and aura to master (True Gunner) (A way of making more reason for master defender since atm all dabblers can get aura, but would this violate the viability of some dabbler templates?)
12. Mitigation ability like synth. (Caeser) (Would be nice but might be too overpowered)
13. i. Desensitize -Reducing Dmg draining force instead(Kryptis) (Sounds an awful lot like force armor, question of whether master defender needs another such ability to go with aura and valor or something different. Also does this move fit into defender? It seems very force intensive forcing defenders to take channel to use their own abilities?)
(Updated) Posted Responses
- Kalam Merkor
Message Edited by KalamMerkor on 10-15-2005 10:44 AM
Message Edited by KalamMerkor on 10-16-2005 11:15 AM
Message Edited by KalamMerkor on 10-16-2005 11:20 AM
Message Edited by KalamMerkor on 10-16-2005 11:20 AM
Kamujin
Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:32 am
#2
Advanced ValAura
Combines Valor and Aura into 1 skill and increasesmelle def bonusto700 and lightsaber blocking to 50%.
trajen2
Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:36 am
#3
perhaps defender just isnt one of those trees to master? Like healer, it is more useful for dabbling. . . one of the best temps i ever had was a dabbler template:
MLS
Def 2040
enh 3404
healer 4000
Kamujin
Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:39 am
#4
trajen2 wrote:
perhaps defender just isnt one of those trees to master? Like healer, it is more useful for dabbling. . . one of the best temps i ever had was a dabbler template:
MLS
Def 2040
enh 3404
healer 4000
Perhaps if your logic was followed then everyone would have the same template?
All trees should have incentive for mastery, this should be obvious.
Asking for the decision of which tree to master to be simplified (as your suggesting) is asking for a dumbed down game.
D-Frost
Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:54 am
#5
What about an AOE aura power? Something similar to what a squad leader can do to increase the defense of teamates? Or something that constantly draws aggro to help protect teamates - an agro aura with an area of effect, but also provides a little extra defence?
trajen2
Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:58 am
#6
Kamujin wrote:
trajen2 wrote:
perhaps defender just isnt one of those trees to master? Like healer, it is more useful for dabbling. . . one of the best temps i ever had was a dabbler template:
MLS
Def 2040
enh 3404
healer 4000
Perhaps if your logic was followed then everyone would have the same template?
All trees should have incentive for mastery, this should be obvious.
Asking for the decision of which tree to master to be simplified (as your suggesting) is asking for a dumbed down game.
there is still a HUGE advantage to master defender....500 max power, more regen, increase MD/RD, more innate armor...so many more innate forcecost-less abilities...
I chose to master ME b/c it has more abilities but has a HUGE forcecost...... its a tradeoff on how you want to play and if you want to be bothers by managing force bar / bufff times
Kamujin
Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:16 am
#7
trajen2 wrote:
Kamujin wrote:
trajen2 wrote:
perhaps defender just isnt one of those trees to master? Like healer, it is more useful for dabbling. . . one of the best temps i ever had was a dabbler template:
MLS
Def 2040
enh 3404
healer 4000
Perhaps if your logic was followed then everyone would have the same template?
All trees should have incentive for mastery, this should be obvious.
Asking for the decision of which tree to master to be simplified (as your suggesting) is asking for a dumbed down game.
there is still a HUGE advantage to master defender....500 max power, more regen, increase MD/RD, more innate armor...so many more innate forcecost-less abilities...
I chose to master ME b/c it has more abilities but has a HUGE forcecost...... its a tradeoff on how you want to play and if you want to be bothers by managing force bar / bufff times
All master boxes get the 500max power bonus. This is not a reason to pick master defender over master enhancer (for example)
Most of the HUGE advantages you mentioned can be obtained without getting the master box. The extra innate armour is a valid point but not enough to justify the box by itself.
MasterHydro
Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:50 am
#8
give master defenders an evade special, increase's chance to dodge/block by 50% and increase's melee defense by 200 for 20 sec. give it a 3 minute cooldown.
Wolf24601
Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:58 am
#9
Why can't people just make suggestions and follow the thread? OMG...
Here are a few thoughts, in order of what I would like to see.
1) Force Power Boost...enhances health significantly at a huge sacrifice of mind/action regeneration...in other words, makes you a betterTANK. This should have been implemented instead of the mythical AI.
2) Improved Force Warcry (area?)...causes attackers to pause for a number of seconds, unstackable, delay between uses, etc. Add a force warcry to a lower ability that affects only one opponent.
3) Area Taunt (While still letting you use the lower ability!). This should actually be a lower ability than master...so I would add to this a warcry affect...it delays everyone then they come after you?
Wolf
KRAKEN666
Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:00 am
#10
defender should have a remove all states power at master level box. thats the only thing that would make defender worth having again.
Vaashtkk
Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:04 am
#11
Nice ideas there Wolf.
I doubt it's gonna happen, but what I'd like to see is shot reflection. A chance for a blocked shot to return to sender. It's seen frequently in the movies, and I think the MDef box would be an appropriate place to see it in the game.
Ibecomesmallandgo
Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:35 am
#12
I would like to see a riposte ability and maybe give it return fire, so all melee attacks and ranged attacks could be returned.Would be interesting if they made a version to use on your self and an area one that would deflect all damage from enemiesattacking you or group members within a certain radius. To balance it you could make it similar to force armor in that while the ability was active it would use force for each attack deflected. That would be nice be taking heavy damage and group is going down defender could save em, give them time to regroup. As far as names not sure, maybe Saber flurry?
XanKrieger
Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:57 am
#13
Hows about...and get this one....remove the snare from AI and dont nerf it come ToOW?
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