Jedi Archive

Thread: MLS needs a boost, suggestions on Dervish

Torleen
Sun Sep 18, 2005 2:55 am
#1

Dervish, for being the uber speacial that a master of the lightsaber has, is still not worth the master box. If it were not for the other bonuses from Master Saber, I would not be a Master Saber now. Dervish and it's other saber counter parts used to be devastating. And while I dont think it should go back to what it was, it needs something. My suggestion, was either an area knockdown, an area Armor Break, or an area Bleed. Suggestions?
Blinky999
Sun Sep 18, 2005 2:57 am
#2

That master box has +25 LS speed for all types and +20 General melee speed ..... MLS is fine.



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Ryal
Sun Sep 18, 2005 3:40 am
#3

It *will* be fine when our modified speed gets used, not our saber speed.

Until then, its busted
p897t98
Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:08 am
#4

As I have said before, Improve the 4x4x Lines to be on par with x4xx and we might be getting somewhere. I agree Dervish needs to have a use too.




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HardwiredXMan
Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:10 am
#5






Torleen wrote:

Dervish, for being the uber speacial that a master of the lightsaber has, is still not worth the master box. If it were not for the other bonuses from Master Saber, I would not be a Master Saber now. Dervish and it's other saber counter parts used to be devastating. And while I dont think it should go back to what it was, it needs something. My suggestion, was either an area knockdown, an area Armor Break, or an area Bleed. Suggestions?






I think what the devs did was in their attempt to make CU more group oriented, dervish was one of those specials ( like many others) that they wanted to be used for groups. If you noticed, dervish has one of, if not the highest damage mod of all area specials (at least to my knowledege, i haven't checked them all). The fact that your doing the same damage to multiple enemies as one advanced saber throw does to one enemy actually makes dervish a decent special. However, i think the issue is that noone has ever valued a group oreinted attack over one that is single target focused. That's because most people would rather solo than group. I beleive that's because you gain more by soloing. ONly time people really favor grouping over soloing is when you do it with your good friends and guildies. Noone wants to group with a total stranger and go group hunting and share.


So for dervish to be a master level special and built for grouping, many jedi don't like it becuase of the above reasons. I think dervish current state is a bit useless simply because double blades spinning attack is the exact same thing with a little less damage. So dervish is nothing more than an advanced spinning attack.


Another issue I think makes jedi dislike dervish so much (and this is one of my issues) is that nearly every profession has a master ability that is very powerful which can change the tide of a fight. Stasis, A.I., stopping shot, choke, breech, critical shot, adv. sniper shot just to name a few. Some professions even have multiple abilities that aren't even in the master box which is more valuable and useful than dervish is. Point is that noone fears dervish in PVP, Even in PVE, dervish is only as good as your defense because to draw arggo from all the mobs around you is not a good idea if you dont' have the defense to handle it. So where other professions have master level specials that are powerful all by themselves, dervish is a master level special that needs support (either defender or other players). EVen then it's only good for groupgrinding because with no other special states and only an area attack, vs a single target it is not favored over power attack.


Some improvements that would be nice besides giving it blind, dizzy and stun at once would be to make it a traveling move. By that I mean make it an extended ranged move like lunge for brawler. If the damage is to be increased, then it must be made into a cone attack or a single target attack. I'd rather keep the area on it myself.


Either way, if you like dervish or not, MLS needs something more than what it has now. All the speed it has simply just brings a saberist up to par with normal professions speed anyway, having the master box in sabers don't give you speed that makes you faster than every one else, so that is not as special as most people think. However, the speed issue on sabers could change that if it ever gets fixed or if it even needs fixing at this stage of the game. I think that's the debate the devs are having now......does saber speed need to be fixed or is where it's at now adequate enough....with the rate that jedi keep killing Bh's, I'd say they are leaning towards leaving it the way it is.


One thing I would like to see though whether dervish is changed or not, is another saber special added to the master box. I can't really say what that special should do, but I'm leaning towards some kind of ability that would hinder your opponent somewhat....we don't really need another powerful damage dealing attack as body/leg/head hit and power attack are good enough. My reasoning is that the other melee professions have some kind of hindering move or one that enhances their professions.....like swordsman's Swords flurry giving a defensive bonus when used, or pikes intimidate. Frankly, the blind, dizzy, stun type of attacs are all too common to add another one of those to the master box and that's why I'm not really in favor of adding those to dervish although having them all in one move would be nice...but all that does is make 4 other jedi specials obsolete, therefore something else needs to be done with dervish. it simply is a useless move in PVP and only useful in PVE if your in a group or if your solo, if you have the defense to support using it.


STLpMpNu
Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:53 am
#6






Torleen wrote:

Dervish, for being the uber speacial that a master of the lightsaber has, is still not worth the master box. If it were not for the other bonuses from Master Saber, I would not be a Master Saber now. Dervish and it's other saber counter parts used to be devastating. And while I dont think it should go back to what it was, it needs something. My suggestion, was either an area knockdown, an area Armor Break, or an area Bleed. Suggestions?






I have to say it you sir are a moron. Area kd on dervish? Area Armorbreak? Area Bleed? Wow Lets just look at this from a objective point of view. Dervish does roughly 50-60 dmg less than lets say head hit. Now you want to area kd people with it? So not only do you dish out overpowering dmg yes i said overpowering Dervish is a AOE meaning its a 10 meter radius If anything it should be changed to a cone effect instead of a aoe. Anyway back ontopic Area knockdown is very powerful pikeman is the only proffesion with one and the dmg is extremly low because putting a high dmg on it would be OVERPOWERING. Area armor break? Armor break as is is already overpowered. It has low dmg because putting a high dmg with a armorbreak state would be yes you guessed it overpowering.


Like i said Dervish is overpowered not underpowered as you put it. The dmg output is through the roof with a aoe attack with that much dmg. The only proffesion in the game that can dish out that much damage. So aside from all the speed and accuracy you get from it i think you need to get over it and not make stupid suggestions that make the rest of the people think jedi are a joke.



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Aikes
Sun Sep 18, 2005 5:16 am
#7

BEST FIX FOR MLS:


ROLL BACK TO Pre-Combat Downgrade
HardwiredXMan
Sun Sep 18, 2005 5:24 am
#8






STLpMpNu wrote:





Torleen wrote:

Dervish, for being the uber speacial that a master of the lightsaber has, is still not worth the master box. If it were not for the other bonuses from Master Saber, I would not be a Master Saber now. Dervish and it's other saber counter parts used to be devastating. And while I dont think it should go back to what it was, it needs something. My suggestion, was either an area knockdown, an area Armor Break, or an area Bleed. Suggestions?






I have to say it you sir are a moron. Area kd on dervish? Area Armorbreak? Area Bleed? Wow Lets just look at this from a objective point of view. Dervish does roughly 50-60 dmg less than lets say head hit. Now you want to area kd people with it? So not only do you dish out overpowering dmg yes i said overpowering Dervish is a AOE meaning its a 10 meter radius If anything it should be changed to a cone effect instead of a aoe. Anyway back ontopic Area knockdown is very powerful pikeman is the only proffesion with one and the dmg is extremly low because putting a high dmg on it would be OVERPOWERING. Area armor break? Armor break as is is already overpowered. It has low dmg because putting a high dmg with a armorbreak state would be yes you guessed it overpowering.


Like i said Dervish is overpowered not underpowered as you put it. The dmg output is through the roof with a aoe attack with that much dmg. The only proffesion in the game that can dish out that much damage. So aside from all the speed and accuracy you get from it i think you need to get over it and not make stupid suggestions that make the rest of the people think jedi are a joke.





Give the guy a break, no need to call him a moron. You do realize that any change to any ability means it will have to be balanced right. THat means if the guy was to get his wish of any one of those things, the devs will likely give dervish the same damage reduction that AB and sweep gets, like a .5 damage modifier. So just because someone suggest somethign like he has, doesn't make them a moron. Sometimes you have to give people the benefit of the doubt and read between the lines...sure it borders on assumption, but his post does not make him out to be a moron. he simply wishes that dervish could be better useful, because right now it's not a master level attack that it should be.

Anyway, I just see a guy tryiing to get a discussion going about somethign that he thinks is an issue (at least to him), where he gave a couple of quick suggestions and your first post is attacking his judgement or his competance (darn did I spell that right...LOL). Now I understand that you can say what ever you feel but honestly you have to ask yourself, does it do any good for the discussion at hand? The best discussions in the world where solutions are made and things are fixed so everyone is happy is when emotions, name calling and making judgements is left out of the discussion. That stuff just puts people in a defensive mode and once that happens, all progress you seek in rectifying an issue will cease. If that's what you want to do, then by all means keep calling people names and flaming their post.


As far as dervish being overpowered, I don't think so. For a master level special it isslightlyunderpowered. Just because it's the highest damage dealing AOE, doesn't make it a viable master level special. For what it takes to get MLS, it sure as hell isn't as good as some of the master level specials of other professions. From that point of view, any AOE attack is inferior. Would you rather have stopping shot type ability, choke/DOT, a 3x damage special, a 15m range attack, an attack that reduces damage taken while dishing out damage at the same time or would you rather have dervish. From my point of view, dervish has no advantage on any of those abilities. To use dervish other than in a special occasion, you need some good defense, crowd control abilities or some group memebers to help out. A jedi who doesn't have good defense does not and should not want to use dervish and have 5, 6, 7, 8 or more creatures/npc's attacking him all at once.....if you don't have the defense, all the AOE Damage int he world won't augment the damage you will be taking. That leaves you desiring more from dervish. Point is that every other profession including jedi has multiple master level specials that are very viable in any situation, PVP or PVE....yet dervish has no place in 1-vs-1 PVP. Since massive PVP is extremely rare these days and good PVP'ers don't congregate in a close tight area (most people like to stay at range because they know a jedi dominates at melee range), dervish is not as strong for PVP.


So Overpowered, I'd say no.....underpowered, I'd not by much, but still yes. Still, it gets on my nerves to see people flamed for trying to make an improvement....I mean would your rather his post be about nerfing another jedi skill instead?
Zorrion
Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:45 am
#9

Dervish is extremely overpowered in PVP and under powered in PVE. Just think about it. 8 Jedi doing dervish in a small clump in pvp generates mass dmg per second. I watch people drop like flies when near this. In PVE it is too weak due to FC and lack of dmg multipliers for PVE.



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williamvereb
Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:22 am
#10

I wouldn't mind having to equip a double-bladed to do an area kd with dervish.
RosaShyanne
Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:27 am
#11

I'm not too sure I really want the speed fixed. While I certainly want my temp fixed and working as intended, I stopped getting Doc's speed buffs cuz I use too much force (postCU saber). If I was lightning quick, would I really drop these MBH/Jedi before running out of force? Or would I end up spending all my force faster than ever?


As for Dervish, I think it sucks, if soloing, you aren't AoE too often, and if in a AoE group, there's so much dmg being done that you can sit on Imp Spin and save the force while contributing to the dmg effectively.


If I was to alter anything in LS, I would ask that saber throw be availble in 2 forms with and without the KD.



---Rosa, Jedi
emovamalla
Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:29 am
#12






Torleen wrote:

Dervish, for being the uber speacial that a master of the lightsaber has, is still not worth the master box. If it were not for the other bonuses from Master Saber, I would not be a Master Saber now. Dervish and it's other saber counter parts used to be devastating. And while I dont think it should go back to what it was, it needs something. My suggestion, was either an area knockdown, an area Armor Break, or an area Bleed. Suggestions?






Yeah... /stretch... MLS needs a lot of help now that MPowers will be useless after Cloak nerf. Awesome idea.


Make the strong stronger and the weak weaker. Sounds like a good time to me.


Oh, I got a suggestion. Can I havea 32m radius knockdown, intimidate, armor break, bleed, stun, dizzy, blind, and choke move?




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uberchief
Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:05 am
#13



emovamalla wrote:


Torleen wrote:
Dervish, for being the uber speacial that a master of the lightsaber has, is still not worth the master box. If it were not for the other bonuses from Master Saber, I would not be a Master Saber now. Dervish and it's other saber counter parts used to be devastating. And while I dont think it should go back to what it was, it needs something. My suggestion, was either an area knockdown, an area Armor Break, or an area Bleed. Suggestions?



Yeah... /stretch... MLS needs a lot of help now that MPowers will be useless after Cloak nerf. Awesome idea.

Make the strong stronger and the weak weaker. Sounds like a good time to me.

Oh, I got a suggestion. Can I have a 32m radius knockdown, intimidate, armor break, bleed, stun, dizzy, blind, and choke move?






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