Jedi Archive
Thread: move drain force to force wielder?
HavelockVetinari wrote:
Yeah, a few people mentioned this awhile back, too. It makes sense to me, but enhancer already got beat with the nerf bat pretty hard, taking anything else away from them needs to be offset by giving them some new toys to play with or enhancing the functionality of some of their other skills. Either way, I also think drain force should be countered by the force defense line of defender.
Excuse me? They brought forceRun2 and 3 into line and you're calling that being hit hard with the nerf bat? These were NEVER intended to be used as a combat additive, rather a means of escape.
Basically everything in Enhancer is attractive and useful. The same cannot be said for any other Jedi profession other than Lightsabers.
**EDIT BELOW**
I forgot to add, I fully agree that /drainForce should be in the powers tree, and it should also have a drain LIFE move so that Dark Jedi don't have to rely on healing so much. I'm not asking for a huge drain life move, since it would be an attack as well, but it should be there.
Message Edited by certifiedandrew on 09-09-2004 07:45 AM
- intimidate 1 - Novice brawler is cheaper and better
- weaken 1 and 2 - Don't harm the opponent nearly enough nor nearly long enough
- choke - give me a break, a master skill that isn't even as powerful a DOT as a combat medic poison
- animal scare - Why exactly would I want to scare something and have it come back after me?
- animal calm - Umm yeah whatever, a couple hits will kill it and I want to calm it?
- animal attack - If my gen 4 saber isn't going to killmy opponent, that rancor doesn't stand a chance.
- mind trick - Why grief a CH when you can kill his pet in 2 hits?
- knockdown - miss miss miss miss .. what the hell, how do you dodge the force?
- The entireEnhancerforce resistance tree - worthless
- Force absorb - absorbs so little that most people can't even notice it.
- regain conciousness - great a self res! but you still lose jedi exp? besides who needs it? Why would I want to be groggy next to the players that just killed me.
- force run 3 - I spent 89 points to get a skill that lets me run away? I am playing a Jedi that can .. run away? Why the hell would a Jedi run away? When was the last time you saw a Jedi Knight in a movie that ran away? And why would someone pick up the master box to run away faster when forcerun2 lets you still runaway??
- drain force - what like 100 and I get 50? who gives a crap?
- transfer force - because I am a nice guy? who in their right minds would take this skill if it wasn't something you got just because of channel force or meditate?
- force armor 2 - I think instead of innate natural defenses that cost me nothing, I will put up a shield that drains my force pool in 30 seconds. Yeah that's a great plan.
Ok so with all these issues, you are going to campaign to move one lousy, idiotic skill from one broken tree to another broken tree? More power to ya mate! Hell I hope ya get it. I hope ya find another knight to PVP with because if the FRS and Jedi skills aren't fixed soon, you are going to have to wait a few months for the patch 10 unlockers to challenge ya.
certifiedandrew wrote:
HavelockVetinari wrote:
Yeah, a few people mentioned this awhile back, too. It makes sense to me, but enhancer already got beat with the nerf bat pretty hard, taking anything else away from them needs to be offset by giving them some new toys to play with or enhancing the functionality of some of their other skills. Either way, I also think drain force should be countered by the force defense line of defender.
Excuse me? They brought forceRun2 and 3 into line and you're calling that being hit hard with the nerf bat? These were NEVER intended to be used as a combat additive, rather a means of escape.
Basically everything in Enhancer is attractive and useful. The same cannot be said for any other Jedi profession other than Lightsabers.
**EDIT BELOW**
I forgot to add, I fully agree that /drainForce should be in the powers tree, and it should also have a drain LIFE move so that Dark Jedi don't have to rely on healing so much. I'm not asking for a huge drain life move, since it would be an attack as well, but it should be there.
Message Edited by certifiedandrew on 09-09-2004 07:45 AM
I totally agree the force runs needed to be brought in line, but you can't tell me that a whole bunch of enhancers wouldn't be extremely upset if, after having their premiere skill nerfed (even if that nerf was justified), SOE yanked another decent skill from their tree without replacing it with something new and useful or increasing the usefulness of their other skills. I don't have any force run, I know the pain of the jedi on the short side of the jedi tree imbalance stick, but that doesn't mean I want to shaft people who already feel very shafted. They are a whole lot less powerful now than they were before, and that defines being hit hard with the nerf bat. Doesn't matter if you agree with the nerf or not, it's still a nerf.
IdrisTycho wrote:I am trying to understand why everyone considers Force Powers as a set of darkside skills, but I cannot. The movies showed many of the Force Powers skills being used by light Jedi. To try to move /drainForce or any skill into the Powers tree because it is a "darkside" skill is not a strong argument.In fact /drainForce is so close to being an irrelevant skill that even arguing about moving it in the first place is basically a waste of time. You efforts would be better spent in trying to think up some new force powers skills or coming up with ways to fix the current ones. One should choose one's battles carefully. Why argue strongly for something that is nearly irrelevant.And to address Alexea's point: forceRun2 and 3 were not brought into line. The reason for nerfing these skills in the first place was to prevent hit and run tactics. Well guess what... this nerf didn't do that. All it did was make enhancer suck in PVE, they can still use hit and run tactics in PVP and are still nigh unkillable due to their "I don't lose" button. So yes they were hit hard with the nerf bat. And the developers were so illinformed as to NOT EVEN ADDRESS THE ORIGINAL PROBLEM! Instead they nerfed the wrong thing and they nerfed it hard. What kills me more is that they did this while people proposed all kinds of other solutions that would actually solve the problem.People who say Enhancer was "brought into line" are usually those who never even fully understood why they were overpowered in the first place. It irritates me to no end to read about Jedi asking to remove broken skills from broken Jedi trees to move them into other broken Jedi trees and leave them broken!WAKE UP! Fight for what is important, fight for skills that freakin' work and are useful.list of worthless force skills:
- intimidate 1 - Novice brawler is cheaper and better
- weaken 1 and 2 - Don't harm the opponent nearly enough nor nearly long enough
- choke - give me a break, a master skill that isn't even as powerful a DOT as a combat medic poison
- animal scare - Why exactly would I want to scare something and have it come back after me?
- animal calm - Umm yeah whatever, a couple hits will kill it and I want to calm it?
- animal attack - If my gen 4 saber isn't going to kill my opponent, that rancor doesn't stand a chance.
- mind trick - Why grief a CH when you can kill his pet in 2 hits?
- knockdown - miss miss miss miss .. what the hell, how do you dodge the force?
- The entire Enhancer force resistance tree - worthless
- Force absorb - absorbs so little that most people can't even notice it.
- regain conciousness - great a self res! but you still lose jedi exp? besides who needs it? Why would I want to be groggy next to the players that just killed me.
- force run 3 - I spent 89 points to get a skill that lets me run away? I am playing a Jedi that can .. run away? Why the hell would a Jedi run away? When was the last time you saw a Jedi Knight in a movie that ran away? And why would someone pick up the master box to run away faster when forcerun2 lets you still runaway??
- drain force - what like 100 and I get 50? who gives a crap?
- transfer force - because I am a nice guy? who in their right minds would take this skill if it wasn't something you got just because of channel force or meditate?
- force armor 2 - I think instead of innate natural defenses that cost me nothing, I will put up a shield that drains my force pool in 30 seconds. Yeah that's a great plan.
Ok so with all these issues, you are going to campaign to move one lousy, idiotic skill from one broken tree to another broken tree? More power to ya mate! Hell I hope ya get it. I hope ya find another knight to PVP with because if the FRS and Jedi skills aren't fixed soon, you are going to have to wait a few months for the patch 10 unlockers to challenge ya.
Are you even a Master Force Wielder Idris? Because honestly though i agree KD has horrible accuracy and that although intimidate is an awesome skill it is better to get novice brawler AND that weaken isnt that great i have to say Animal Attack/Calm/Scare are by far some of the most usefull skills you will ever get.
Animal Scare: Not that Great but if your in trouble it gives you a chance to run a bit, usually you will be unagroed
Animal Calm: Great for getting something off you that you dont want, like if your out with a friend and a mob snags you instead of the tank
Animal Attack: I wish i had this but im too damn lazy to finish my grind though i hunt with my friend everyday and we use it atleast 10 times per hunt. We can run the geo cave and hit the Acklay room with nothing agro to us in less then 5 minutes and if a BH ever comes after one of us in the wild just snag some mobs to him so you can get away or just to distract him.
Now onto the topic it is true force wielder is not inherintaly Dark it is true ( no matter how useless ) that force drain Should be in Powers. In no way does it enhance, which is what Enhancer is about. what it does is "hinder" your opponent using the force....which is what powers is all about
BoyOfLight wrote:
Are you even a Master Force Wielder Idris? Because honestly though i agree KD has horrible accuracy and that although intimidate is an awesome skill it is better to get novice brawler AND that weaken isnt that great i have to say Animal Attack/Calm/Scare are by far some of the most usefull skills you will ever get.
Animal Scare: Not that Great but if your in trouble it gives you a chance to run a bit, usually you will be unagroed
Animal Calm: Great for getting something off you that you dont want, like if your out with a friend and a mob snags you instead of the tank
Animal Attack: I wish i had this but im too damn lazy to finish my grind though i hunt with my friend everyday and we use it atleast 10 times per hunt. We can run the geo cave and hit the Acklay room with nothing agro to us in less then 5 minutes and if a BH ever comes after one of us in the wild just snag some mobs to him so you can get away or just to distract him.
Now onto the topic it is true force wielder is not inherintaly Dark it is true ( no matter how useless ) that force drain Should be in Powers. In no way does it enhance, which is what Enhancer is about. what it does is "hinder" your opponent using the force....which is what powers is all about
Egnar the only reason you like to use the animal management skills is because you are so gimped. I SERIOUSLY doubt that ANY of the force wielders took force powers so that they could avoid fighting animals. For you to call them your most useful skills shows just how truly gimped you are. Also, 10 times per hunt is nothing to be bragging about.
As to your original question, what the hell difference does it make if I am a Master Force Wielder or not. I played a Master Force Wielder on TC2 for over a week towards the end of the testing. I seriously considered becoming a force wielder from the very beginning, but its skills were so broken and useless that I couldn't bring myself to play one. Knowing that SOE would just releasepatch 9 and sit back and watch for months, there was no way I was gonna play a gimped profession for months. By the way are you a Master Force Wielder? Have you played one?
At least by choosing enhancer I got some skills that work, although even among those, many are basically worthless. When one has to choose a Jedi profession based on what works, you know that SOE is screwing the pooch again.
jk___ wrote:
All in all, as you diminish someone else's force pool, shouldn't this power be placed in the force diminish line. This would also make wielder a bit more attractive, and furthermore it is really more a "dark" power than an enhancing power
Exellent idea, I agree.
Also...they should add a drain HAM special as well so that Dark Jedi wouldnt be FORCED to take the healing tree. 
EyeDye_SWG wrote:
Exellent idea, I agree.
Also...they should add a drain HAM special as well so that Dark Jedi wouldnt be FORCED to take the healing tree.
Aveng0r wrote:
/disagree
Message Edited by EyeDye_SWG on 09-10-2004 05:49 AM