Jedi Archive

Thread: The Terrible Truth of Force Regen and a Possible Solution!

ussormi
Sun Jul 06, 2003 4:35 am
#1

I agree TOTALLY with you Ludo, I would add 1 thing... POWER. Other than that this post was PERFECT!
Ludo4Real
Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:49 pm
#2







Here's an issue all Jedi can come together and hopefully unite with one voice: Force isn't long in this world. AKA /forceslit


Learning to conserve your Force pool is a unique challenge while playing any Jedi template. "Guys, can we all have a sit, I need to regen," or the ever popular, "Can someone toss me some Force, I'm out." Out of Force, indeed.


A choice was made some time ago by the developers tohave the Force pool act as a long-term limiterthat wouldforce Jedi to conserve their 'power' and not behave recklessly. In actual practice we all know a brief duel or fighting one CL80 mob will drain your force pool by half (even those with low SAC sabers).


Regardless if you're a Powers or Lightsaber based template, running out of force and then recovering your Force pool is a pain and commonly feels a little, well, gimped (I didn't say nerfed).


Remember, it's a galaxy of Jedi PADAWAN - full templates aren't real Knights, regardless of their old tags, so I can stomach being over powered in a galaxy full of MCM/BH and Doc/Swordsman, butthe Force bottle necks all Jedi and is the REAL Achilles heel of our profession and must be fixed before any FRS is formulated and goes live.


You think the real Jedi weaknessis about pearls and dps? Where does that leave Master Powers templates? I'll say it again: the REAL weakness of the Jedi profession is Force management and regeneration. Force is what gives Jedi their strength, toughness,abilities, and allows you to fend off yourfoes or escape to fight another day.


They can give Jedi all kinds of great enhancements to our skill trees with the pending FRS, but as it stands, the particle effect light show will last about 8 minutes (if you get my drift).


Jedi PADAWAN should never be an everlasting tank of Force, but I hope you see where I'm coming from.


The Devil is in the Details:


Getting your Force regenerated is determined by your Force Power Regeneration mod andcan also be assisted by some Enhancer skills, such as Channel and Force Meditate.


For example, a full template, 1 masterytemplate could offer:


6150

Maximum Force Pool

with a Force Regeneration of 55


That 55 means every 10 seconds you'll regenerate 55 Force. That means you'll regenerate 5.5 Force every second.


With the above template if you become fully drained of Force it would take you 18.63 minutes to fully recover your Force Pool (6150 / 5.5 = 1118.18 seconds / 60 seconds in 1 minute).


Adouble mastery template will havegreater Maximum Force and slightly better Force Regeneration but you'll still be looking at nearly a 20 minute recovery to 100% Force.


*BTW - Padawan Robes, which are supposed to add +10 to Force Regeneration aren't working at all. Don't believe me? Take a stopwatch, pop a defensive skill such as aura (Force Cost 150) and time how long it takes for your Force to return to 100%. Now equip your Padawan Robe and repeat the test. You'll be disappointed.


For anyone that has Enhancer in his or her template, we all know how great Channel is. Force Meditate, however, is a luxury ability that you can go without but is nice to have. Personally, I have become proficient enough to use Channel Force during combat, but it's always risky.


No Enhancer in your template eh? "Eh m8, can I bum some Force off ya?" So working as intended means you have to pick up some Enhancer or farm Holocrons to last in combat, well done.


"Show me the Force!" - JerieMac'Guyver (Jedi Padawan)


Day 1 Jedi Padawan should be given the ability to Meditate. Period.All Jedi should know how to meditate so they can begin to explore the mysteries of the Force within. If only for the reason that sitting on the floor cycling idle animations looks bloody silly. At this point the benefit might provide +10 Force Regeneration, but it's better than nothing.


Summary: Padawan gain ability to /forcemeditate


Force should regenerate only slightly less than the rate of the Mind Pool (if Meditating). In this way the Jedi can learn to contract and expand, like the tide, using the Force and then returning to center. Just like the Mind Pool, Standing Posture and Combat will delay the Force Pool Regeneration.


Summary: Force Regeneration (while meditating) should be similar to Mind Pool (while sitting).


The Enhancer ability Channel should function like this: You can give yourself a buff of Maximum Force by channeling from your Health Pool. The buff might last 10 minutes and give an additional +500 Force for a 500Health sacrifice. Use it again and you can sacrifice another 500 Health (-1000 Health) for a total Force bonus of +1000.


Summary: Channel Force should be a buff (that can stack) that temporarily sacrifices Health for Force.


The Enhancer ability Force Meditate will be renamed to Improved Force Meditate, which will increase Force Regeneration but also provide a Power Boost like Buff that gives a 15-minute +500 Force Bonus.


Summary: Force Meditate renamed to Improved Force Meditate and will also provide ashort term Force Power Buff.


*The First ability a REAL Jedi Knight should be granted upon any future FRS should be an ability called /focusforce. Focus Force, a25 minute buff, will decrease Force Costs by 25-50%.


You ready for a curve ball?


A Jedi at any level must endure hardships and suffer through many unorthodox trials, such asBounty Hunter attacks and facing high end content NPC's.


These encounters challenge any Jedi's knowledge of the Forceand might offer the JediInsight into the mystery of the Force.


These "Insights" might translate into an increased Maximum Force Power.


For example, a treacherous Bounty Hunter attacks a Jedi Padawan, and the young Jedi slays the Bounty Hunter. At which time the Padawan will receive a system message: "You have survived the attack of the Bounty Hunter and gained insight into the Mystery of the Force."


Your journal would reveal all a Jedi's Force Insight Bonus:



  • Ackalay: 250 Force

  • NK-Necrosis: 250 Force

  • Dark Jedi Master: 150 Force

  • Tusken Witch Doctor: 150 Force

  • Katarn: 150 Force

  • Black Sun Overlord: 350 Force

  • Bounty Hunter Attack: 150 Force

In this example, the Jedi would have a total Force bonus1450 Force. Death penaltywould not only include experience loss, but also a negative to accumulated Force Insight Bonus.A full template Jedi would lose 500 Force Insight per death, for example.


You can't obviously go below your normal Maximum Force Power, but your death would eventually overshadow any Insights that you've had.


To prevent Insight Force farming, recently achieved Insights would appear in your Journal for a debuff time, and until the entry disappears, would prevent a Jedi from farming the Ackalay over and over again, for example.


What gives Force Insight bonuses would initially remain a mystery and prompt exploration and discovery for all Jedi players.


"Dude, a Jawa warlord just gave me 50 Force Insight bonus, sweeet!"


Crafty Developers could even plug in NPC events, similair to the Old Man or Sith Attacks of the Villiage, which would occur oncea Jedi achieves a certain amount of Force Insight (i.e. a Dark Jedi Master spawns near player and attempts to slay them or IG-88 spawns and tries to blast the Jedi).


Long toothed die hard Jedi would have a tremendous advantage in terms of Maximum Force.


Summary: Jedi gain ability to earn more Maximum Force Power than can be lost upon death.


Guess what Bounty Hunters? Now we have a reason to stand and fight.


/Sign /Scream /Flame, either way, give us the Force.


Message Edited by Ludo4Real on 10-02-200511:16 PM

Message Edited by Ludo4Real on 10-02-2005 11:16 PM

LandonRyuu
Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:49 am
#3

Some great ideas here, a /focusForce ability would be neat beyond belief.


Other than that I think Force Regen should be modified to tick almost as fast as your mind pool.
ahood
Fri Sep 30, 2005 2:09 am
#4

It will never happen because its wrong and misses the whole point of having a Force Pool.


The force pool is intended to be a strategic limiter on players actions. It is supposed to take significant downtime to recover and it is suppose to limit player on a long playing session. The light which burns twice as bright burns half as long.


However, there are problems. The force pool is supposed to limit a players LONG TERM endurance. It is not supposed to burn out in a single fight. Players should be able to fight several lairs and a few players before needing to take a breather. The problem is not how long it takes to recover, but how quick the pool drains. Rather than speeding up regeneration by a factor of 2, the better approach is to cut force costs by a factor of two.


Adjusting the costs not the regeneration give the same amout of "action" over time, but rather than having lots of smaller breaks after every fight itallows for longer playing sessions before the longer break - and truely gives a strategic pool to manage.


MauiBeach
Fri Sep 30, 2005 3:37 am
#5

Some neat ideas there, I really like the choice that every padawan should have a basic meditation skill. Even a +10 to force regen would be great, this should be an innate ability available to all Jedi.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thunderheart wrote:

Good afternoon suckers,

If you don't see something you were looking for in this update, it simply means we are still working on it and will have it out to you as soon as we can.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PhantomNIR
Fri Sep 30, 2005 3:52 am
#6


Excellent post. Force cost/regen rates are absurd right now. Nice ideas.





Esar Meros - Nerfed Dark Jedi Elder

(gnn[[[[[[[[[[]nnnWX9ggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg)

- I support a rollback and keeping & balancing the old combat system.
...and making SWG a better place to be.
Your voice counts!
KRAKEN666
Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:04 am
#7

very good post. the force pool shouldnt be a stay of execution, it should be something we use. personally, get rid of the pool and keep force constant. never heard on any movie, hey obi, slow down your bars getting low. we have gotten screwed for 23 patches on fixing the regen rates and we need to be more vocal about it. I posted last night that our regen rates were slower after server reseting last night. with soe hopping from proffesion to proffesion, none of these good ideas will see the light of day. but, you are right, we need to demand to at least be competative against people who dont have limiting factors like force bars. Its ironic that the one thing that is supposed to seperate us from other proffesionsand keep us alive is the one thing that kills us in the end.

how about a special dancer or musican force buff, or even special schematics for force foods?

Message Edited by KRAKEN666 on 09-30-2005 04:21 AM

rLobster
Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:19 am
#8

Very intruiging ideas... I like the ideas!










E'on Lateralus

~ Elder Master of many Professions - Nerfed into Oblivion ~ NGE: Not the SWG I loved.

ussormi
Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:35 am
#9

I agree TOTALLY with you Ludo, I would add 1 thing... POWER. Other than that this post was PERFECT!
Durzel
Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:40 am
#10

If regular Padawans had /forceMeditate, then the Tier 4 skill on Enhancer would have to be a lot better (better than just +500 Force buff anyway). As it is Force Meditate is barely worth having over Channel, it just looks nice.



333333333333333333333333333333333333333
333333333333333333333333333333333333333
333333333333333333333333333333333333333
333333333333333333333333333333333333333
333333333333333333333333333333333333333
333333333333333333333333333333333333333
333333333333333333333333333333333333333
333333333333333333333333333333333333333
333333333333333333333333333333333333333

Dracz / Jashin Acroyear / Ikarus Sterling
Pre-pub 9 Jedi
- Intrepid (email)


Shainninja
Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:42 am
#11

Another option that would be rather cool is if you Kill a BH that attacks you with a mission your reward is that your Force pool is regenerated fully on the BH death. This would make an all out battle something that isnt going to ruin the jedi should he slay one only to be jumped by another after that kill.



I think that the force is deeply misinterpreted in this game. The force is always refered to "everywhere" "in all things" "Controls everything" well im damn sure i wouldnt mind the force bar Yoda has.....


The force bar should increase on Jedi Lvl so when your a Paddie you should have say minimal force regen.. But youstart with at least 2k of force...


Master can pull force from around himself (like force valour animation) and fill his force and others around him with a force pool of around 20k



It really doesnt make much sense limiting us on force as we need mind and action and everything else the same as everyone else. A BH can use stims until he runs out of mind.... no force bar there....


oh well..






If you want to learn of the force you must first learn of yourself.
Attibow
Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:27 am
#12

I agree with your post Ludo. The regen rates (if you can call it regenerating at all) are absurd.



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1111111110110010010001111111111110011111
0000100001001111110111110110111111111001Attibow
0000100110111101101111001100110101011001
1100010011010001111010010001001101101000Tzin
0001101011010010110101110011101111011100
1011100011000010101000111100000000110101Iskivo Aomeh
1000111011100110010001111010100101100101
1101101011100000011111101111010010000001


ChefRubio
Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:32 am
#13

I hardly ever run out of force. I do have a 9fc saber though









Priest |Aenemia
~Jedi Elder~
|||FEDS|||
One of the few, the proud, the pre patch 9.
Page 1 of 2
Previous Next