Jedi Archive
Thread: Compare Apples to Apples when complaining please.
Message Edited by jason67 on 09-01-2005 07:03 AM
I have a rifle and a bowcaster both with 500-1000 damage without powerups
You forgot to mention armorbreak which affects force armor
armorbreak sliced armor
adnauseum
alot of variables people convinetly leave off when comparing things on both sides.
How much effort and time goes into getting a 750 saber with an action cost comperable? Is it even possible if you started as a Jedi tomorrow?
Lorelai_Seabreeze wrote:
Your stats are a bit off
I have a rifle and a bowcaster both with 500-1000 damage without powerups
You forgot to mention armorbreak which affects force armor
armorbreak sliced armor
adnauseum
alot of variables people convinetly leave off when comparing things on both sides.
Yep, my stats are slightly off, and I didn't account for bowcasters at all in there(since I can't craft them or use them on any of my characters). My min damages are only general ranges at the moment since I'm not ingame and can't look up more exact values, but I'm hoping this will at least get the point across and I'll try to post some more accurate figures on them a bit later. But, max damages and SAC are both accurate on their for the respective caps on weapon types.
Message Edited by jason67 on 09-01-2005 07:03 AM
Better yet add in mine
4th Gen Double blade 2 pearls 2 crystals
31 force cost
2.4 speed
460-550 damage
114 SAC
Message Edited by Lorelai_Seabreeze on 09-01-2005 09:06 AM
Lorelai_Seabreeze wrote:
Add in current Post Cu lightsabers into that mix while your at it.
Better yet add in mine
4th Gen Double blade 2 pearls 2 crystals
31 force cost
2.4 speed
460-550 damage
114 SAC
Message Edited by Lorelai_Seabreeze on 09-01-2005 09:06 AM
I am, My personal Lightsaber is 719max damage, with a 9fc and 96 SAC. Yes that was crafted after the CU. And no I did not have all of my post-cu pearls(though I did have several) I tuned the last pearl I needed for those stats after the CU, and yes I invested the money into tuning all premiums, which can still be done by those that are really interested in obtaining a good lightsaber.
And as I stated in my original post I do understand where premium pearls not dropping is an issue, but this is a seperate issue than the one being addressed above. My post mainly addresses those that are proclaiming that Jedi are worthless and need to have the damage on their LS's increased etc... you get the point. This is not an accurate statement in the context it is typically delivered. You dont' need the overall stats of the LS increased based on their examples or yours, what you need are premium pearls to start dropping again so that you can get decent stats on what already exists in game. this is already an issue they are working on addressing.
jason67 wrote:
Lorelai_Seabreeze wrote:
Add in current Post Cu lightsabers into that mix while your at it.
Better yet add in mine
4th Gen Double blade 2 pearls 2 crystals
31 force cost
2.4 speed
460-550 damage
114 SACMessage Edited by Lorelai_Seabreeze on 09-01-2005 09:06 AM
I am, My personal Lightsaber is 719max damage, with a 9fc and 96 SAC. Yes that was crafted after the CU. And no I did not have all of my post-cu pearls(though I did have several) I tuned the last pearl I needed for those stats after the CU, and yes I invested the money into tuning all premiums, which can still be done by those that are really interested in obtaining a good lightsaber.
And as I stated in my original post I do understand where premium pearls not dropping is an issue, but this is a seperate issue than the one being addressed above. My post mainly addresses those that are proclaiming that Jedi are worthless and need to have the damage on their LS's increased etc... you get the point. This is not an accurate statement in the context it is typically delivered. You dont' need the overall stats of the LS increased based on their examples or yours, what you need are premium pearls to start dropping again so that you can get decent stats on what already exists in game. this is already an issue they are working on addressing.
Its a question of how long it will go on though and what the final resolution will be. Right now its already been months and promises to be at least 2 more. People are understandably frustrated. 6 months is a very long time in MMO life.
Ei pearls and the way tuning is done might be overhauled.
or the way the pearls drop is being looked at and current premium pearl users can enjoy their uberness for several more months
Message Edited by Lorelai_Seabreeze on 09-01-2005 09:18 AM
DocSavag wrote:
I haven't seen anyone suggesting that perfect sabers aren't decent weapons. The main issue is that for under 2 million credits I can have a T21 That (with powerups and slices) is at the Damage cap and has a SAC of 85ish. I can use that weapon with a week or so of grinding to get to master Rifle.
How much effort and time goes into getting a 750 saber with an action cost comperable? Is it even possible if you started as a Jedi tomorrow?
My simple response to this would be that Jedi is supposed to be difficult, and I agree if you are comparing max damage/sac to any other weapon it really appears that Jedi are being screwed, and we are slightly 
. However what you're not looking at is the minimum damage difference. We have a significant advantage there which helps to really balance out the overall damage output. We start at 600+ damage and go up from there, while everyone else starts at 400 damage and moves up depending on accuracy vs defenses. Also keep in mind that Jedi have significantly higher defenses than any other profession available to them. It is simply your choice if you want to take those defenses or not, but regardless they are available. This is also assuming that the Jedi ONLY has aura, and is not also using force armor or force valor against a ranged profession which drastically changes the combat in favor of the Jedi.
And I do agree that our action costs are extremely high, I think that we should be getting the SAC stats that exist on our current pearls but for some reason always show up as zero. The real question is what amount of reduction on those pearls would be reasonable. If you gave us up to a -9 sac on all pearls that would give us the lowest sac of any weapon, a -7 sac would give us about the same overall sac as a pistoleer, which given our increased minimum damage would hardly seem fair or balanced. i would however not mind seeing a -3 sac possible on sabers, I think that would be a reasonable amount of sac decrease and would put us once again in the range of sac for a rifleman. But this is more of a wish I think than a factual basis for balance. I'll try to calculate out some more exacting results for my rifles vs my LS later so that we can actually compare.
jason67 wrote:
DocSavag wrote:
I haven't seen anyone suggesting that perfect sabers aren't decent weapons. The main issue is that for under 2 million credits I can have a T21 That (with powerups and slices) is at the Damage cap and has a SAC of 85ish. I can use that weapon with a week or so of grinding to get to master Rifle.
How much effort and time goes into getting a 750 saber with an action cost comperable? Is it even possible if you started as a Jedi tomorrow?
My simple response to this would be that Jedi is supposed to be difficult, and I agree if you are comparing max damage/sac to any other weapon it really appears that Jedi are being screwed, and we are slightlyAnd I do agree that our action costs are extremely high, I think that we should be getting the SAC stats that exist on our current pearls but for some reason always show up as zero. The real question is what amount of reduction on those pearls would be reasonable. If you gave us up to a -9 sac on all pearls that would give us the lowest sac of any weapon, a -7 sac would give us about the same overall sac as a pistoleer, which given our increased minimum damage would hardly seem fair or balanced. i would however not mind seeing a -3 sac possible on sabers, I think that would be a reasonable amount of sac decrease and would put us once again in the range of sac for a rifleman. But this is more of a wish I think than a factual basis for balance. I'll try to calculate out some more exacting results for my rifles vs my LS later so that we can actually compare.
My point is that you compare a top of the line rifle with a top of the line saber but one is available for sale for 1 million credits and the other is no longer attainable or only at a cost of 10x to 100x the cost of that rifle in pearls and crystals that you still have to roll the dice on to get the damage you so casually toss out. If I had a perfect saber I wouldn't be complaining either but I don't. I have a crappy saber that is far below the weapon that a player in the game a couple of weeks can afford and use. That is the real issue for me.
I am sure that my saber will get better over time. Right now my crafting skills are sub par and I haven't tuned enough crystals or pearls to have a better saber. I'm constantly working toward that goal. The problem is that the lower end is dreadfully below standard weapons for non Jedi and that seems upside down to me.
My max damage is under 500. That sucks. It will get better and I'm not afraid to work for that but the problem is that currently the probabability of it getting better for months is not very good.
KRAKEN666 wrote:
nice post and good effort, but defenses will only take u so far. you fail to take into consideration that our power is limited because of force costs. you dont address that since we got nerfed down to where a good healer just has to outlast our force bar. once we loose force for heals and aura or defenses, we are dead.
Yes that is an issue, but from what I understand it is an intended issue by the DEVS our force bar is our long term limiting factor, preventing us from lasting in larger battles or engagements. Any profession that deals with PvP it is simply a matter of being able to outdamage the heals, and if you can force the healer to continue healing, then his mind will drain long before your force bar ever will. But you are right Defenses will only take you so far, but I believe that it is far enough. Against a ranged opponent(90% of the pvpers out there these days) you can run force arua and force valor and force infusion and that is enough to mitigate the majority of the damage against you. What you are referring to is more of a template issue I think.
DocSavag wrote:
My point is that you compare a top of the line rifle with a top of the line saber but one is available for sale for 1 million credits and the other is no longer attainable or only at a cost of 10x to 100x the cost of that rifle in pearls and crystals that you still have to roll the dice on to get the damage you so casually toss out. If I had a perfect saber I wouldn't be complaining either but I don't. I have a crappy saber that is far below the weapon that a player in the game a couple of weeks can afford and use. That is the real issue for me.
I am sure that my saber will get better over time. Right now my crafting skills are sub par and I haven't tuned enough crystals or pearls to have a better saber. I'm constantly working toward that goal. The problem is that the lower end is dreadfully below standard weapons for non Jedi and that seems upside down to me.
My max damage is under 500. That sucks. It will get better and I'm not afraid to work for that but the problem is that currently the probabability of it getting better for months is not very good.