Jedi Archive

Thread: more jedi ideas from your most hated CL1 :P

pizzathehut67
Sun Sep 11, 2005 9:43 pm
#1


READ THE ENTIRE POST, take a 5 minute break to think about it... THEN reply. it gets old having to repeat myself.


why read what a CL1 has to say? because you clicked the link... because you probably want to read it. i have an idea and would like a discussion. not a debate about whether or not my ideas have merit... if you read them and think about them they absolutely have just as much merit as anyone else's idea. you already read the topic... if you know that you dont think my idea's have merit... why are reading this post?


complaint: there is not enough content for jedi

my response: there isnt enough content for anyone. I do however see alot of potential for content that is being used. for instance (and it is off topic here) why do BH's have an investigation tree when they dont actually investigate anything? Why not add in a quest that is a mystery story. Where the player would have to put together the clues on their own and ACTUALLY investigate. How many of you would open up a BH alt just to play through that storyline?


as for jedi, their adventures should be just that... adventures. An ancient jedi ghost appears and tells the jedi of a growing evil... their travels (progressing by helping someone or hurting them depending on light/dark) would take them all over the galaxy. The story would be immersive and engaging and not just "kill 20 snorbles". Envoking the ancient glowies as npc's could open so many doors for storylines and content.


complaint: there is no jedi "feel" in the game... i.e. no master/padawan type thing

my response:since SWG is meant to be a group game, and jedi learn in groups, it would make sense that each new padawan should have a master. they can only learn from their master and no one else. no skill trainers or anything like that except for basic skills. I think the numbers are high enough now to actually do this. Also, master jedi could make scrolls for their padawan's. a scroll would take up one "knowledge lot" (so someone doesnt make scrolls for mass sale) and makes the scroll for a specific person to use. this way, if a master is not online it will not interfere with a padawan's gameplay.


To go along with this, difficult quests would be given that the master and padawan must undertake together in order to progress the padawan at certain points in the leveling.


complaint:jedi hurt the community by being too self sufficient

my response: jedi should be, for the most part, self sufficient. however, certain things should ALWAYS be a necessity. Jedi, as well as everyone else, should regularly need the services of a doctor, droid engineer, dancer/musician, and bio-engineer. The other crafting profs would be utilized at lower levels (guns to help leveling or a thin armor for some protection at padawan). I think there are several core professions (doctor, dancer, droid engineer) that need to have more use by all players. Jedi should be able to circumvent some of these professions at higher levels provided they have the proper template. i think jedi should not have the ability to heal wounds... luke couldnt, anakin couldnt... why can players?


complaint: jedi do not have the ability to reflect damage

my response: jedi should end of story. i really have no clue why BH has a reflect ability. Duelist stance should last longer than it does and have the reflect removed the skill entirely. The reflect ability should be specific only to jedi. Also, i do not think jedi should automatically block attacks at the rate they do. There should be a lower base chance for a non buffed jedi. There should be a skill buff added in that significantly increases the chance to block shots (the damage reflection would be part of this new skill). before anyone flames this idea, id really like to hammer out details of it... such as how much damage should be reflected? currently its broken and always reflects 25 points of damage. it should be higher than that... but, maybe say once an assault special is used the defensive buff dissapears. such that the jedi cant stack his own damage with that of a hard hitting rifleman. thoughts?

Message Edited by pizzathehut67 on 09-13-2005 08:43 AM



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-Southern-
Sun Sep 11, 2005 9:47 pm
#2

i belive they're calling it, The Trials of Obi-Wan.....



Accounts Deleted
pizzathehut67
Sun Sep 11, 2005 10:06 pm
#3

yes yes... but those npc's are static and available to everyone.


im saying that there needs to be special chance encounter quests and content that are profession specific



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magneto2
Sun Sep 11, 2005 10:16 pm
#4

who cares what a combat lv 1 has to say about jedi? anyone?




MaGnEtODark Jeedai "Carebear"
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pizzathehut67
Sun Sep 11, 2005 11:56 pm
#5






magneto2 wrote:
who cares what a combat lv 1 has to say about jedi? anyone?





its an outside opinion on ideas to help the game be better. i also have a CL78 alt... but im a crafter at heart. you know its interesting... i just read a thread posted by someone who claims they are a jedi proposing a total nerf of cloak... i once proposed that cloak should be nerfed and moved to tier 2 and a more powerful cloak be put in the master box... and got flamed incessantly by people who are too stupid to realize that outside thought can often be the most balanced.



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DarthFettmule
Mon Sep 12, 2005 1:12 am
#6

> who cares what a combat lv 1 has to say about jedi? anyone?

Yup. If an idea is good I care not about who has come up with that idea.
Seems you're into a bit of ad-hominem there, "Don't listen to this guy,
he's only CL1".

pizzathehut67
Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:01 am
#7

so does anyone have any thoughts on this?



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Eskie
Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:11 am
#8

Im only commenting on two points:

- Jedi hurting the economy by being too self-sufficient:

Not true. Jedi are regular customers of chefs (any Jedi without a proper food combo has a severe disadvantage), docs (most Jedi do not have Healer x1xx currently, and if they do they sacrifice other skills for it), entertainers (xp-grinding usually is done with inspiration buffs), and last but not least Bounty Hunters with their loot. Thats the buyer's side.
On the seller's side, Jedi usually sell loot.
Looking at all this, a Jedi is more woven into the economy than a resource miner who only buys harvies from architects now and then and sells the resources afterwards.

- Jedi dont have the ability to reflect damage:

Actually, Enhancer Jedi do - its called Force Feedback and annoys any Force Wielder Jedi
Concerning reflecting blaster fire - no, Jedi can only block blaster fire, but reflecting might be a bit unbalancing to the one using a 600 - 1100 Laser Rifle on a Jedi without having a Center of Being like skill himself



Eskona Runningstar
12pt Master Doctor - Master Riflewoman
Light Jedi Padawan
-ERI- medical supplies CLOSED

Left to explore new galaxies far, far away
after this galaxy had been enhanced far too much for her taste
Neomonk
Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:12 am
#9






pizzathehut67 wrote:

READ THE ENTIRE POST, take a 5 minute break to think about it... THEN reply. it gets old having to repeat myself.


complaint: there is not enough content for jedi

my response: there isnt enough content for anyone. I do however see alot of potential for content that is being used. for instance (and it is off topic here) why do BH's have an investigation tree when they dont actually investigate anything? Why not add in a quest that is a mystery story. Where the player would have to put together the clues on their own and ACTUALLY investigate. How many of you would open up a BH alt just to play through that storyline?


as for jedi, their adventures should be just that... adventures. An ancient jedi ghost appears and tells the jedi of a growing evil... their travels (progressing by helping someone or hurting them depending on light/dark) would take them all over the galaxy. The story would be immersive and engaging and not just "kill 20 snorbles". Envoking the ancient glowies as npc's could open so many doors for storylines and content.






Content (for everyone) would be great. However, SOE's idea of content is just adding new stories with the same cookie-cutter methods. Talk to NPC, he tells you some story, gives you a quest to go kill MOB X and return. Or NPC tells you to go talk to MOB Y and return. They need to think of a new way to handle quests. They need to realize there is more to stories than fetch and return type things. Secrets of the Syren story was a nice step in the right direction. It had an involved story and a lot of twists. However, it still used the fetch and return method.


To be honest, I don't have any good ideas at the moment on how they can change it, either.





__________________________________________________________
Knomoen Neomonk - Jedi Padawan Cancelled
Pnomoen - Bounty Hunter / Carbineer Cancelled
Gnomoen - Armorsmith / Architect Cancelled
Nomoen - Master Brawler / Teras Kasi Master Cancelled
Jedi_Xan
Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:23 am
#10


complaint: there is no jedi "feel" in the game... i.e. no master/padawan type thing

my response:since SWG is meant to be a group game, and jedi learn in groups, it would make sense that each new padawan should have a master. they can only learn from their master and no one else. no skill trainers or anything like that except for basic skills. I think the numbers are high enough now to actually do this. Also, master jedi could make scrolls for their padawan's. a scroll would take up one "knowledge lot" (so someone doesnt make scrolls for mass sale) and makes the scroll for a specific person to use. this way, if a master is not online it will not interfere with a padawan's gameplay.


To go along with this, difficult quests would be given that the master and padawan must undertake together in order to progress the padawan at certain points in the leveling.



I am so not in agreement with this. No, no, no... not now not ever force a master/padawan relationship where the master is a player. I am sorry, but that will not work. Too much to go wrong.



Callale Xan
Imperial Colonel


Currently on vacation in Freeport. Please leave a message.
Jacella
Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:36 am
#11









complaint:jedi hurt the community by being too self sufficient

my response: jedi should be, for the most part, self sufficient. However, certain things should ALWAYS be a necessity. Jedi, as well as everyone else, should regularly need the services of a doctor, droid engineer, dancer/musician, and bio-engineer. The other crafting profs would be utilized at lower levels (guns to help leveling or a thin armor for some protection at padawan). I think there are several core professions (doctor, dancer, droid engineer) that need to have more use by all players. Jedi should be able to circumvent some of these professions at higher levels provided they have the proper template. i think jedi should not have the ability to heal wounds... luke couldn't, anakin couldn't... why can players?




Jedi Healers. Also, Luke often healed wounds of people...Mara Jade being the most often. Let's talk about other professions that benefit from Jedi:



  • Doctor: Jedi still get buffs, and most of us still need wound healing from time to time

  • DE: Umm..I have like 5 droids...not to mention the flight computers etc

  • Dancer/Musician: We get buffs too

  • Bio-Engineer: We still use stims and BE Clothing

  • Tailor: Most of us wear clothes besides out robes...see above

  • Bounty Hunters: They provide the SEA's that help us...and crystals sometimes

  • Smuggler: Good for Faction Points and Spices

  • Chefs: We consume MORE foods than most as we are 100% combat

  • Artisans: We require resources, bikes, and a lot of other things (vehicle repair kits like mad)

  • Combat Medic: For doing high level caves, POI's, missions

  • Shipwrights: Most of us fly a lot too

  • Archetects: We use buildings as much as anyone else

  • Creature Handlers: Some of us get pets too...even just for fun...and we all need mounts sometimes.

  • Armorers: We use PSG's

  • Image Designers: We all like a change

  • Ranger: Good for hunting krayts

So..as far as I can tell, the only crafter/service professions that don't benefit from us are Weaponsmiths.



Message Edited by Jacella on 09-12-2005 12:40 PM





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pizzathehut67
Mon Sep 12, 2005 1:05 pm
#12








Eskie wrote:
Im only commenting on two points:

- Jedi hurting the economy by being too self-sufficient:

Not true. Jedi are regular customers of chefs (any Jedi without a proper food combo has a severe disadvantage), docs (most Jedi do not have Healer x1xx currently, and if they do they sacrifice other skills for it), entertainers (xp-grinding usually is done with inspiration buffs), and last but not least Bounty Hunters with their loot. Thats the buyer's side.
On the seller's side, Jedi usually sell loot.


see post below



Looking at all this, a Jedi is more woven into the economy than a resource miner who only buys harvies from architects now and then and sells the resources afterwards.

- Jedi dont have the ability to reflect damage:

Actually, Enhancer Jedi do - its called Force Feedback and annoys any Force Wielder Jedi
Concerning reflecting blaster fire - no, Jedi can only block blaster fire, but reflecting might be a bit unbalancing to the one using a 600 - 1100 Laser Rifle on a Jedi without having a Center of Being like skill himself


i agree that the reflect may definitely create problems... but BH certainly should not have it... jedi should. I think that if the skill were implemented like this it would be pretty good (minor tweaking probably needed).


- jedi's current (unbuffed) block rate is reduced. Add a skill to all jedi trees that buffs the chance to block to the current level being used now.


- This buff skill also adds a chance to reflect blaster shots back at the attacker except for certain types of attacks and certain specials. Cover shot would not be blockable (or have a severely reduced chance tobe blocked)nor would any kinetic, flame, acid, or electrical attack. these attacks could still be dodged like normal.


- using any offensive attack would immediately debuff the reflection skill buff. So you can attack or defend... but you cant do both at the same time. this would prevent someone from making a macro to constantly run the reflection buff such that the jedi would always be stacking the attacker's reflected damage with their own.










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pizzathehut67
Mon Sep 12, 2005 1:26 pm
#13






Jacella wrote:









complaint:jedi hurt the community by being too self sufficient

my response: jedi should be, for the most part, self sufficient. However, certain things should ALWAYS be a necessity. Jedi, as well as everyone else, should regularly need the services of a doctor, droid engineer, dancer/musician, and bio-engineer. The other crafting profs would be utilized at lower levels (guns to help leveling or a thin armor for some protection at padawan). I think there are several core professions (doctor, dancer, droid engineer) that need to have more use by all players. Jedi should be able to circumvent some of these professions at higher levels provided they have the proper template. i think jedi should not have the ability to heal wounds... luke couldn't, anakin couldn't... why can players?




Jedi Healers. Also, Luke often healed wounds of people...Mara Jade being the most often. Let's talk about other professions that benefit from Jedi: the jedi never healed any wounds or damage in any movie. luke required a doctor to heal his wounds on hoth just as anakin needed a doctor to heal his wounds



  • Doctor: Jedi still get buffs, and most of us still need wound healing from time to time

the tip rate to docs and dancers is about 10-25% depending on the day. i know this from being both a doc and a dancer.



  • DE: Umm..I have like 5 droids...not to mention the flight computers etc

no one relies on DE's for anything. thats more of a general problem with the DE profession



  • Dancer/Musician: We get buffs too

again... the low tip rate of these professions makes them less viable than other supporting professions. saying that you use them does not mean you are contributing to the economy... you are contributing if you tip dancers/doctors 100% of the time.



  • Bio-Engineer: We still use stims and BE Clothing

again, this is a profession with a limited resale of items. BE clothing can still be worn when broken and after the first sale is hardly ever purchased again. im a tailor... i know.



  • Tailor: Most of us wear clothes besides out robes...see above

see above + the most expensive non BE item a tailor sells should not be any more than 10,000 credits. your occasional purchase of a 1k sunguard or a 2k jacket does not make a dent in the overall economy. Other combat professions regularly need 500k suits of armor and 5 million credit rifles.



  • Bounty Hunters: They provide the SEA's that help us...and crystals sometimes

good point, although i think loot is generally over-valued... thats a different discussion for a different thread though.



  • Smuggler: Good for Faction Points and Spices

you could just as easyliy AFK faction farm. Spices have a low profit and and dont sell for much.



  • Chefs: We consume MORE foods than most as we are 100% combat

you use the same amount as other combat profs. this is about the only profession that every combat prof needs on a day-to-day basis



  • Artisans: We require resources, bikes, and a lot of other things (vehicle repair kits like mad)

not everyone gets their vehicle destroyed as much as you do.



  • Combat Medic: For doing high level caves, POI's, missions

everyone needs healers... but some jedi can heal themselves (i know master healer sucks and should be revamped)



  • Shipwrights: Most of us fly a lot too

i hardly see anyone in space, and, you can play the entire game without ever going into space (unless you wanted to go to kashyyk.



  • Archetects: We use buildings as much as anyone else

unless you mine resources or re-decorate your house constantly your not really contributing to the architects business. in order to contribute like other profs do you need to make a purchase more than once in your career. as a crafter i have purchased over 40 different harvesters of various sizes and am looking to purchase another 8. again, this is a general problem with the architects wares being one time sales and thats that.



  • Creature Handlers: Some of us get pets too...even just for fun...and we all need mounts sometimes.

another low value one time purchase.



  • Armorers: We use PSG's

good point



  • Image Designers: We all like a change

unless you tip them 100% of the time you are not contributing to the overall community.



  • Ranger: Good for hunting krayts

are you seriously saying this? area track is broken... has been for a long time.


So..as far as I can tell, the only crafter/service professions that don't benefit from us are Weaponsmiths.



weaponsmiths should get screwed by jedi... not arguing that. but overall, jedi rely less on other professions than the more mainstream profs.


Message Edited by Jacella on 09-12-2005 12:40 PM








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