Jedi Archive

Thread: Armor Break Resistance skill instead of Avoid Incapacitation

Kobrakai_Force
Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:02 am
#1
so lets say im facing a DJM or any other mob on my ownand AI goes up the DJM runs away? is that what ur sayin

VaainEldritch
Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:13 am
#2




Erynder wrote:


Master defender and TKMs need '' Armor Resistance skill '' which works like force shield and Force Aura. It can be on a timer, and cost force.


This will make Master defender worth having, Innate armor worth something, and will make Jedi and TKMs equal with other professions.





Congratulations - this is a very fine idea that appears to make perfect sence.


As you say, Defender innate armour is breakable and while all other armoured prof's have their armour break resistance, Jedi and TK do not.


Great suggestion and one that deserves careful consideration.





Va'ain

Urban Dictionary definition of SMED:

"to interfere with one's gaming enjoyment: To drastically alter an item which is enjoyed by thousands."

TO pull a smed. Jeez, those dev's pulled a smed on swg big time

Pday
Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:15 am
#3




VaainEldritch wrote:




Erynder wrote:


Master defender and TKMs need '' Armor Resistance skill '' which works like force shield and Force Aura. It can be on a timer, and cost force.


This will make Master defender worth having, Innate armor worth something, and will make Jedi and TKMs equal with other professions.





Congratulations - this is a very fine idea that appears to make perfect sence.


As you say, Defender innate armour is breakable and while all other armoured prof's have their armour break resistance, Jedi and TK do not.


Great suggestion and one that deserves careful consideration.







the problem remains, this would make m.def a must for j vs j



Iadao

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EstoMax
Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:20 am
#4

AI skillto Master Healer would be GREAT and is logical with these changes. This would also help open up healer as a potential mastery once again!



I like your ideas except the Defender having an Armor break resistance feature. Defender is already the uber of defense for Jedi and making a defender have this would make you have to be defender to stand a chance. It would further complement the FOTM defender lifestyle that almost every Jedi now has which would make it even worse as far as an effective balance. You would almost have to be master defender to win a fight because anybody that did not have MD would throw off the balance because the MD would take even less damage thenthey already do. It sounds like a nice special to have and I wouldn't mind having it, but it would only make matters worse I think.



2 cents ftw!




Estomax
-=Its not in my nature to be evil=-
-=The devs made me this way=-

Erynder
Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:33 am
#5





EstoMax wrote:

AI skillto Master Healer would be GREAT and is logical with these changes. This would also help open up healer as a potential mastery once again!


I like your ideas except the Defender having an Armor break resistance feature. Defender is already the uber of defense for Jedi and making a defender have this would make you have to be defender to stand a chance. It would further complement the FOTM defender lifestyle that almost every Jedi now has which would make it even worse as far as an effective balance. You would almost have to be master defender to win a fight because anybody that did not have MD would throw off the balance because the MD would take even less damage thenthey already do. It sounds like a nice special to have and I wouldn't mind having it, but it would only make matters worse I think.


2 cents ftw!




You are right to a certain extend. But, having MD in your template needs sacrifices. There are two vaible templates for MD.


MD / MLS / E 0002 / H 3000


No force run, no force speed, no 1500 heals. Very hard to play with. This is my template. I have a 1.14 speed LS, 724 max damage. If I had a post-CU saber, I caouldn't play this template.


MD / LS 0404 / xxxxxxxx


No alternating attacks. Only attacks you have are power hit and head hit. These two are not enough to fight, you are missing a lot of accuracy and speed, and if you don't have a pre-CU saber and skill tapes, you won't incap anyone.


IMO, every master box deserves a very good skill. Let me explain like this, currently, the WORST profession tree is Master Healer. But I have a few female friends who religiously stick to Master Healer, because they odn't want to fight, they want to heal. Avoid Incap will fit them well.


I chose Master defender because I like to dive into crowds. I want to be the last man standing. I don't even have force run. But without Armor break resist, Enhancer 0400 and defender 0040 is a better tank than me. This needs to change. Having Master defender in your template leaves you usually weak in another aspect. The difference between 1000 and 1500 heals is huge when you are playing.



Please allow me to introduce myself; I'm a man of wealth and taste. I've been around for a long, long year, stole many a man's soul and faith Oropher, the Fallen So if you meet me, have some courtesy, have some sympathy, and some taste. Use all your well-learned politesse, or I'll lay your soul to waste The Plural of Jedi is JEDI. 1 Jedi, 2 Jedi, a bazillion Jedi Pleased to meet you, hope you guessed my name, but what's confusing you is just the nature of my game Guardian of Darkness Just as every Rebel is a criminal, and all the sinners saints..as heads is tails..just call me Emperor's Hand 'cause I'm in need of some restraint.
VaainEldritch
Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:34 am
#6




Pday wrote:



the problem remains, this would make m.def a must for j vs j





Not necessarily. There's at least one item in the beta that grants armour-break resistance to anyone. You could say "then why give it to Mdef as a skill" - well my answers would be that an armour break reistance fits so perfectly with the concept of a front-line tank/warrior and that when a non-Master Defender Jedi fights a Master Defender they will need to adjust their tactics accordingly.


They still have chance to apply the armour break (thus immediately eliminating one of the best defender abilities - Innate Armour) and can keep trying toapply it, or they need to look for other weakness in the MDef's overall template - remember MDef's with MSabers lose a lot of ancillary skills in order to be able to heal and survive and will have either no FR/speed or no Force control (channel) or weak healing, and Mdef dabblers lose on offence (less LS accuracy and speed and a smaller range of specials).



Va'ain

Urban Dictionary definition of SMED:

"to interfere with one's gaming enjoyment: To drastically alter an item which is enjoyed by thousands."

TO pull a smed. Jeez, those dev's pulled a smed on swg big time

Erynder
Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:40 am
#7




VaainEldritch wrote:




Pday wrote:



the problem remains, this would make m.def a must for j vs j





Not necessarily. There's at least one item in the beta that grants armour-break resistance to anyone. You could say "then why give it to Mdef as a skill" - well my answers would be that an armour break reistance fits so perfectly with the concept of a front-line tank/warrior and that when a non-Master Defender Jedi fights a Master Defender they will need to adjust their tactics accordingly.


They still have chance to apply the armour break (thus immediately eliminating one of the best defender abilities - Innate Armour) and can keep trying toapply it, or they need to look for other weakness in the MDef's overall template - remember MDef's with MSabers lose a lot of ancillary skills in order to be able to heal and survive and will have either no FR/speed or no Force control (channel) or weak healing, and Mdef dabblers lose on offence (less LS accuracy and speed and a smaller range of specials).




Yup, exactly my point. Master Enhancer and Master Defender looks strong on paper, but to get masteries, you sacrifice a lot. Because to do '' Enough to incap '' damage, you need MLS.



Please allow me to introduce myself; I'm a man of wealth and taste. I've been around for a long, long year, stole many a man's soul and faith Oropher, the Fallen So if you meet me, have some courtesy, have some sympathy, and some taste. Use all your well-learned politesse, or I'll lay your soul to waste The Plural of Jedi is JEDI. 1 Jedi, 2 Jedi, a bazillion Jedi Pleased to meet you, hope you guessed my name, but what's confusing you is just the nature of my game Guardian of Darkness Just as every Rebel is a criminal, and all the sinners saints..as heads is tails..just call me Emperor's Hand 'cause I'm in need of some restraint.
EstoMax
Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:25 am
#8
That is your desicion.. you can't always get what you want, ever hear of that?



Estomax
-=Its not in my nature to be evil=-
-=The devs made me this way=-

VaainEldritch
Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:36 am
#9




EstoMax wrote:
That is your desicion.. you can't always get what you want, ever hear of that?




But if you try hard, you might get what you need!


I love the Stones....





Va'ain

Urban Dictionary definition of SMED:

"to interfere with one's gaming enjoyment: To drastically alter an item which is enjoyed by thousands."

TO pull a smed. Jeez, those dev's pulled a smed on swg big time

cloudwalker1
Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:40 am
#10




Erynder wrote:






EstoMax wrote:

AI skillto Master Healer would be GREAT and is logical with these changes. This would also help open up healer as a potential mastery once again!


I like your ideas except the Defender having an Armor break resistance feature. Defender is already the uber of defense for Jedi and making a defender have this would make you have to be defender to stand a chance. It would further complement the FOTM defender lifestyle that almost every Jedi now has which would make it even worse as far as an effective balance. You would almost have to be master defender to win a fight because anybody that did not have MD would throw off the balance because the MD would take even less damage thenthey already do. It sounds like a nice special to have and I wouldn't mind having it, but it would only make matters worse I think.


2 cents ftw!




You are right to a certain extend. But, having MD in your template needs sacrifices. There are two vaible templates for MD.


MD / MLS / E 0002 / H 3000


No force run, no force speed, no 1500 heals. Very hard to play with. This is my template. I have a 1.14 speed LS, 724 max damage. If I had a post-CU saber, I caouldn't play this template.


MD / LS 0404 / xxxxxxxx


No alternating attacks. Only attacks you have are power hit and head hit. These two are not enough to fight, you are missing a lot of accuracy and speed, and if you don't have a pre-CU saber and skill tapes, you won't incap anyone.


IMO, every master box deserves a very good skill. Let me explain like this, currently, the WORST profession tree is Master Healer. But I have a few female friends who religiously stick to Master Healer, because they odn't want to fight, they want to heal. Avoid Incap will fit them well.


I chose Master defender because I like to dive into crowds. I want to be the last man standing. I don't even have force run. But without Armor break resist, Enhancer 0400 and defender 0040 is a better tank than me. This needs to change. Having Master defender in your template leaves you usually weak in another aspect. The difference between 1000 and 1500 heals is huge when you are playing.




Ehh LS x4x4 has head hit and saberthrow.


Which are close on same damage. Defender with armor break resistance would be unbalancing. Just because YOU want to be the last man standing doesnt mean you deservearmor break resistance in top of the innate armor and innate defenses.







Seha - If you strike me down i will become alot weaker then you could possibly imagine

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VaainEldritch
Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:45 am
#11




cloudwalker1 wrote:

Which are close on same damage. Defender with armor break resistance would be unbalancing. Just because YOU want to be the last man standing doesnt mean you deservearmor break resistance in top of the innate armor and innate defenses.







Ok, that's your opinion - now please explain why it's unbalancing. We are trying to foster a constructive discussion. No one wants to be "uber" - just useful and balanced.


To start off, there are armour break resistance items in the expansion so anyone can get them...

Message Edited by VaainEldritch on 10-14-2005 10:46 AM



Va'ain

Urban Dictionary definition of SMED:

"to interfere with one's gaming enjoyment: To drastically alter an item which is enjoyed by thousands."

TO pull a smed. Jeez, those dev's pulled a smed on swg big time

felipz
Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:49 am
#12
Items like what food ?



[__Felous__]


"


EstoMax
Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:49 am
#13




I POSTED THIS IN ITS OWN THREAD BUT HERE IT IS


I see a few threads coming up with people wanting Master Defender to have a "Armor Break Resistance" special added in light of the AI changes. I don't believe this special should ever be considered wether I was a Master Defender or not (I am not basing this on my templete but as a whole in general). Maybe you agree or don't and that is great. Please express your views on this matter.




Let me explain.


Defender is already nuts with Jedi vs Player and this would onlyfurther throw off what little balance we may be hanging onto if you are a MD (iI' looking at it from both Jedi and non Jedi sides). As far as Jedi vs Jedi it would make Defender a MUST to survive and no 1 discipline should be required that is why there are 5 to choose from.



Let me break it down further into some numbers. Please read slowly lol


Lets say I am a Master Defender and I fight 2 non master defenders. If I had ABR theneach would equally be half as effective against me as and I would be hitting them individually two to three times harder then they are hitting me.




(I believe these are all correct numbers)

Me getting hit with ABwhich isa75% reduction to my armor effectiveness which iscountered by aneffectiveness by 65% with ABRI beleive leads you to something like armor break instead being now 16% effective when applied against you. Against a master defender at 7000resistance(52.5%) this leavesthe MDdown to 5800 -5900 (47.5%) instead of the usual armor break leaving a MD with 2450 (24%). A non master defender may have even less innate thus making your dps ratio even more unbalanced because of this special. This move would make a master defender way to "out of the balance" for most if anot every other profession and class out there. Again, with this in mind you would almost have to be a MD to complete with a MD period.


I hope this may open eyes to the potential downfall of a move like this (putting Armor Break Resistance in Master Defender).

Message Edited by EstoMax on 10-14-2005 03:02 AM



Estomax
-=Its not in my nature to be evil=-
-=The devs made me this way=-

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