Items And Loot Archive
Thread: Why T21 and not Laser Rifles
-Krovikan- wrote:
Whats so great about T21, on average most T21 are less max dmg then a Laser Rifle, but more min dmg and greater wound however when you combine the speed into effect the Laser Rifle blows the T21 out of the water... so why is everyone using them over T21s, am I the only one that sees the advantages or am I missing something?
Laser Rifle Stats:
Attack Speed: 6.0
Min Dmg: 112
Max Dmg: 596
Wound: 30.8%
Speed means nothing in the current formula, as a master rifleman/master marksman can easily speed cap most rifles.
The difference comes down to damage dealt, but the numbers can be deceiving. Remember, the laser rifle is only ap2, whereas the T21 is ap3. Therefore, on average, the T21 will do approximately 25% more damage to a target than a laser rifle will, based upon the base numbers.
For example, a 100 max damage laser rifle doing base base damage would hit for 100, whereas a 100 max damage T21 would hit for 125, considering the difference in armor piercing.
For PvP, however, the better rifle is the DXR6B, which has similar stats to the T21 (sometimes better), and although is only AP2, the acid damage bypasses PSGs entirely without losing any energy.
The heavy AP means that if your attacking something with lighter armor you are actually doing more damage then what you see in your combat window. If you are attacking something with heavier armor then your weapons armor piercing, then you are doing less, sometimes a lot less damage then what you see in your combat window.
All these numbers are rough guess but they are pretty close.
If you’re attacking an AP3 monster with an AP3 weapon and you see 2000 damage in the combat window then you are doing 2000 damage before resists.
If you’re attacking an AP3 monster with an AP1 weapon and you see 2000 damage in the combat window you are actually doing close to 1000 damage before resists.
If you’re attacking an AP1 monster with an AP3 weapon and you see 2000 damage in the combat window you are actually doing close to 3000 damage before resists.
So if a rifleman and a TKM both hit an AP3 monster for 2000 in the combat window and the rifleman is using a T21, the actual damage is the rifleman hit for 3000 and the TKM hit for 1000
Message Edited by ObiQuixote on 02-19-2005 01:29 PM
admiraljz wrote:
-Krovikan- wrote:
Whats so great about T21, on average most T21 are less max dmg then a Laser Rifle, but more min dmg and greater wound however when you combine the speed into effect the Laser Rifle blows the T21 out of the water... so why is everyone using them over T21s, am I the only one that sees the advantages or am I missing something?
Laser Rifle Stats:
Attack Speed: 6.0
Min Dmg: 112
Max Dmg: 596
Wound: 30.8%
Speed means nothing in the current formula, as a master rifleman/master marksman can easily speed cap most rifles.
The difference comes down to damage dealt, but the numbers can be deceiving. Remember, the laser rifle is only ap2, whereas the T21 is ap3. Therefore, on average, the T21 will do approximately 25% more damage to a target than a laser rifle will, based upon the base numbers.
For example, a 100 max damage laser rifle doing base base damage would hit for 100, whereas a 100 max damage T21 would hit for 125, considering the difference in armor piercing.
For PvP, however, the better rifle is the DXR6B, which has similar stats to the T21 (sometimes better), and although is only AP2, the acid damage bypasses PSGs entirely without losing any energy.
Oh, and Krayt Tenlosses are far easier to make than Krayt T21s
Message Edited by RazerWolf on 02-20-2005 12:15 AM
SkullBreaker wrote:Well most people use the DXR from the geo caves, the schematic anyway. They have much better accuracy then other rifles.
true but if I had an uber dxr-6 I would slap an anti-decay kit on it, pup it to hell, and camp nyax till my eyes give up on me
Spinnthrift wrote:
Eaca wrote:
Why do people keep saying stupid things like "DXR-6B's are better because it bypasses PSG's". Lets go with your example of the 100 max damage T21 and a 100 max damage DRX-6B. We'll also assume 40% stun 90% energy and acid resist composit armor, and a 40% energy 47% base acid vuln PSG, since most people use imp prototype PSG's any more, to mitigate stun damage.
The DRX-6B bypasses the PSG completely applying 100 damage directly to the composite armor. Since compo is light armor and the DRX is med ap, you get a 25% damage bonus, putting damage at 125, but then a 90% damage reduction dropping that to 12.5 damage per shot
The T21 hits the PSG, but since the PSG is light armor it gets 2 25% damage boosts, for a total boost of 56.25%, so the T21 starts out doing 156 damage to the PSG, but you have to take 40% off for the resists so now you're only doing 93.75 damage to the armor. Armor, again being light, gives another 56.25% boost so that comes up to 146 damage, which is then reduced by 90% for 14.6 damage.
14.6 is about 17% more damage than 12.5 is, so assuming you're using a more realistic T21 in the 530 range unpowered up, to give the same damage as a T21 you would need to use a DRX-6B with 619 max damage, actually in order to get the average damage per shot up to the same levels you'd likely need to go higher than this, due to mitigation and the fact that about the only way to get this high on a DRX-6B would be krayt, which only raises max damage, so to drag the average up you'd likely have to go a bit higher than that.
Firstly - the DXR is a strictly better weapon in PvP than the T-21. Fact. This is coming from a rifleman.
Reason 1: Accuracy. You hit a lot more. EoS.
Reason 2: Bypasses PSG. Yes, we know your example shows how you can pwn with a T-21, but unfortunately for you - the arguement dies here (with reason number 3).
Reason 3: It's easier to build/loot/buy a DXR with way higher stats that a T-21. 11x +100 max damage easy to come by? 6x +100 max damage is vastly easier. When the Devs get round to fixing Geo too - we might even see them dropping once more *grins*
Reason 4: AFAIK on Chim at least, the majority of DXR's have high minimums... many I've seen starting higher than my usual stock of T-21's.
Reason 5: They sound cool.
Reason 6: AFAIK - DXR's frequently have a much higher wound %, again ideal for PvP.
I'd list more reasons, but I think others have basically stated much the same - that theDXR-6b rules.
Also, the higher the % resistance on a PSG, the better the DXR begins to look. The poster quoted a 40% acid Imp PSG. I haven't seen one under 48% in months on Bloodfin, and they can easily be sliced into the 60s. I'd go so far as to say a 60% PSG (and now with anti-decay kits so they don't die) is more common in PvP than the quoted 90% composite armor. It can take ten suits of composite with lucky slices to get one 90% suit, at a cost of millions. An undying 60% PSG can be had for a couple hundred k
Not bashing the poster, but looking at the debate from a different angle. Given the parameters you listed, you're correct, but those aren't always the correct parameters
Eaca wrote:
Why do people keep saying stupid things like "DXR-6B's are better because it bypasses PSG's". Lets go with your example of the 100 max damage T21 and a 100 max damage DRX-6B. We'll also assume 40% stun 90% energy and acid resist composit armor, and a 40% energy 47% base acid vuln PSG, since most people use imp prototype PSG's any more, to mitigate stun damage.
The DRX-6B bypasses the PSG completely applying 100 damage directly to the composite armor. Since compo is light armor and the DRX is med ap, you get a 25% damage bonus, putting damage at 125, but then a 90% damage reduction dropping that to 12.5 damage per shot
The T21 hits the PSG, but since the PSG is light armor it gets 2 25% damage boosts, for a total boost of 56.25%, so the T21 starts out doing 156 damage to the PSG, but you have to take 40% off for the resists so now you're only doing 93.75 damage to the armor. Armor, again being light, gives another 56.25% boost so that comes up to 146 damage, which is then reduced by 90% for 14.6 damage.
14.6 is about 17% more damage than 12.5 is, so assuming you're using a more realistic T21 in the 530 range unpowered up, to give the same damage as a T21 you would need to use a DRX-6B with 619 max damage, actually in order to get the average damage per shot up to the same levels you'd likely need to go higher than this, due to mitigation and the fact that about the only way to get this high on a DRX-6B would be krayt, which only raises max damage, so to drag the average up you'd likely have to go a bit higher than that.
Firstly - the DXR is a strictly better weapon in PvP than the T-21. Fact. This is coming from a rifleman.
Reason 1: Accuracy. You hit a lot more. EoS.
Reason 2: Bypasses PSG. Yes, we know your example shows how you can pwn with a T-21, but unfortunately for you - the arguement dies here (with reason number 3).
Reason 3: It's easier to build/loot/buy a DXR with way higher stats that a T-21. 11x +100 max damage easy to come by? 6x +100 max damage is vastly easier. When the Devs get round to fixing Geo too - we might even see them dropping once more *grins*
Reason 4: AFAIK on Chim at least, the majority of DXR's have high minimums... many I've seen starting higher than my usual stock of T-21's.
Reason 5: They sound cool.
Reason 6: AFAIK - DXR's frequently have a much higher wound %, again ideal for PvP.
I'd list more reasons, but I think others have basically stated much the same - that theDXR-6b rules. 
admiraljz wrote:
Also, the higher the % resistance on a PSG, the better the DXR begins to look. The poster quoted a 40% acid Imp PSG. I haven't seen one under 48% in months on Bloodfin, and they can easily be sliced into the 60s. I'd go so far as to say a 60% PSG (and now with anti-decay kits so they don't die) is more common in PvP than the quoted 90% composite armor. It can take ten suits of composite with lucky slices to get one 90% suit, at a cost of millions. An undying 60% PSG can be had for a couple hundred k
Not bashing the poster, but looking at the debate from a different angle. Given the parameters you listed, you're correct, but those aren't always the correct parameters