Items And Loot Archive

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aries_liak wrote:
Because nerfing something isn't a solution. SEA's and Acklay bones are "desired" to compete in combat. So by removing high-end loot from 1 location you don't solve peoples issue. Fix the issue by doing something like instancing, timers, more drops of high end loot on known random spawns. Just don't take away sources of loot. I think everyone simply wants a fair shake at the loot.

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DMSL wrote:

Uhmmm.....if they did that, then it will look like this soon:

The game got rid of the high end static spawns.

We don't have campers,

but with no static spawns we have to search weeks to get an item.

We have lots to complain about, since we have to search too long to get something.

This forum has many posts of whiners that can't find what they are looking for.

Really, you should think about the things you are suggesting.

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aries_liak wrote:
Explain why static spawns cannot drop good loot and I will agree with you. Your point is rather silly in that if you did the second part there would be no reason to camp a static spawn. Take GDK's as a perfect example. The GDK at the POI use to drop scales. 99% of hunters realized that random spawns did as well. Same for Gurk King Hides. People would have preferred random Woolamander bone frags so they didn't HAVE to camp a POI.

There is nothing wrong with camping a POI if the same loot drops of random spawns of a creature/NPC. The problem is Nyax spawn in 1 location only. Just like Acklay. The problem is they wont let these spawn elsewhere. Nor will they do anything to protect these locations so that everyone anytime can get a reasonable oppurtunity to loot these creatures. You shouldn't have to "compete" with someone else on a kill. Its reasonable to expect that there is enough to go around for every player.

I personally hate your solution because it does nothing but remove levels of fun from the game so that looters do not monopolize a single spawn point. I like going to POI's and fighting bosses and having the chance of getting a good item. I don't think removing this is something necessary. Just let these loot hunters have a reasonable way to get the loot that is easier than camping a POI and POI's will be what they are intended for. Points of Interest. Not Point of Credits

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yohan1701 wrote:

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aries_liak wrote:
Explain why static spawns cannot drop good loot and I will agree with you. Your point is rather silly in that if you did the second part there would be no reason to camp a static spawn. Take GDK's as a perfect example. The GDK at the POI use to drop scales. 99% of hunters realized that random spawns did as well. Same for Gurk King Hides. People would have preferred random Woolamander bone frags so they didn't HAVE to camp a POI.

There is nothing wrong with camping a POI if the same loot drops of random spawns of a creature/NPC. The problem is Nyax spawn in 1 location only. Just like Acklay. The problem is they wont let these spawn elsewhere. Nor will they do anything to protect these locations so that everyone anytime can get a reasonable oppurtunity to loot these creatures. You shouldn't have to "compete" with someone else on a kill. Its reasonable to expect that there is enough to go around for every player.

I personally hate your solution because it does nothing but remove levels of fun from the game so that looters do not monopolize a single spawn point. I like going to POI's and fighting bosses and having the chance of getting a good item. I don't think removing this is something necessary. Just let these loot hunters have a reasonable way to get the loot that is easier than camping a POI and POI's will be what they are intended for. Points of Interest. Not Point of Credits

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Statics spawns dropping good loot will always be camped. ALWAYS. Why? Because people are lazy. Why run around Endor looking for random spawns when Nyax or Acklay spawns every 10-20 minutes and I just have to stand there.
Even if you have the most uber'est loot drop from random spawns and still had Nyax and Acklay droping pretty good loot people ( true fewer people ) would still camp them because its easier. Sure the market for Nyax and Acklay loot would drop because there is better loot out there but it still would be somebodies time to camp them.

I agree with you though running through a dungeon and fighting your way down to the end boss is fun and it should be and it would be great if there was a chance to get a reward for all your hard work, but unless instancing is added to these static spawns; which I don't think is going to happen anytime in the forseeable future; they will be camped because its worth somebodies time to stand there kill them over and over again.

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Tirranus wrote:

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DMSL wrote:

Uhmmm.....if they did that, then it will look like this soon:

The game got rid of the high end static spawns.

We don't have campers,

but with no static spawns we have to search weeks to get an item.

We have lots to complain about, since we have to search too long to get something.

This forum has many posts of whiners that can't find what they are looking for.

Really, you should think about the things you are suggesting.

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Behold the wonder that is the bazaar/vendor system.

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Bazaar = limited pricing thus full of useless items.

Vendors = Good, but you spend a lot of time to find the items you want. Most are either not well stocked or are overpriced.

Upcoming system = Bad, will remove impulse buying which can decrease profits of merchants by, at the worst, 50%. This will lead to people quitting their profs and ultimately abandoning the game.

A placebo is not a solution.

Message Edited by DMSL on 02-22-2005 06:12 PM

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aries_liak wrote:
Explain why static spawns cannot drop good loot and I will agree with you.

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aries_liak wrote:
Your point is rather silly in that if you did the second part there would be no reason to camp a static spawn.

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Exactly.

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aries_liak wrote:
Take GDK's as a perfect example. The GDK at the POI use to drop scales. 99% of hunters realized that random spawns did as well. Same for Gurk King Hides. People would have preferred random Woolamander bone frags so they didn't HAVE to camp a POI.

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Tirranus wrote:

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aries_liak wrote:
Explain why static spawns cannot drop good loot and I will agree with you.

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I don't like monopolies andno-risk/minimal-work/high-reward actions that unbalance the game and hurt the economy.

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There very few situations where you can use monopoly. Nyax, Acklay, Woolamander may be camped but it can hardly be called a monopoly when anyone has the ability to go outdamage one person. I have been to all the points of reference above and have seen on many occassions people showing up outdamaging and looting the spawn. The minimal work aspect can hardly be a point considering "work" and "video game" dont really go hand and in hand. Most people camping a spawn or visiting a spawn spent a long amount of time learning the game mechanics, leveling there professions and building and aquiring equipment and items to even contend with other players. Nyax in this example may hand out loot above your expection of the relative toughness, but tell that to any TKM. Some professions are built to deal huge damages against targets like, rifleman and swordsman. These professions excel at the ability to fight NPC's. I summarily argue that attachment prices for high-end loot has subsquently dramatically dropped at auction. Across Naritus and Tempest I have seen a lot of deflation. I would also argue the flow of more high end loot that provided huge advantages to those who camped POI's under the old spawn times was far more detramental to the game then allowing everyone an oppurtunity to get high end loot with increased spawns. Economically you going to need to show price inflation of CA's and AA's. I am buying +7 and +6 at 300k. I never could do this before the up'd poi timers. I am also finding it much easier to go find nightsisters, and high end npcs to kill and get good loot from.

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aries_liak wrote:
Your point is rather silly in that if you did the second part there would be no reason to camp a static spawn.

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Exactly.

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Exactly what? Is your problem high-end rewards easily obtainable and monopolized from POI's or is it just High end loot is now more readily available?

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aries_liak wrote:
Take GDK's as a perfect example. The GDK at the POI use to drop scales. 99% of hunters realized that random spawns did as well. Same for Gurk King Hides. People would have preferred random Woolamander bone frags so they didn't HAVE to camp a POI.

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People prefer the highest reward per amount of time. So long as static spawns drop high-end stuff, they will be that. I think people should have to actually work for top-of-the-line stuff.

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Which is why random spawns should be easier to get high end loot from than a POI. I think Top-of-the-line stuff should come from our crafters and not some spawn that no matter how difficult they make it can be beaten by a determined player. Who determined that SEA's where to be rare to begin with? I sure think that BE's would argue that any skill item should be craftable by there profession. It is the nature of there profession. This comment you make goes back to my previous response. You seem to have a problem more with the addition of high end loot into the game then camped poi's. I absolutely disagree that POI's would be camped if you could loot a comparable +15 AA/Ca from any 50k ham npc.

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aries_liak wrote:

There is nothing wrong with camping a POI if the same loot drops of random spawns of a creature/NPC. The problem is Nyax spawn in 1 location only. Just like Acklay.The problem is they wont let these spawn elsewhere.

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My problem remains that players can go to one spot that they know will absolutely 100% drop uber loot. How, from an economic perspective, can this possibly be good for the game community as a whole? It's like putting the Blue Frogs on the normal servers and expecting people to earn legitmiate XP and credits.

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I dont even understand this comment. Nyax the majority of the time drops junk as does acklay. Meaning camping a POI like Nyax wont net you +15 ca/aa's everytime especially with players and groups coming into the POI all the time. How is it good economically. Lower prices. Part iii I dont get. Your going to have explain this to me.

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aries_liak wrote:

Nor will they do anything to protect these locations so that everyone anytime can get a reasonable oppurtunity to loot these creatures. You shouldn't have to "compete" with someone else on a kill. Its reasonable to expect that there is enough to go around for every player.

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So every player should haveenough +10 CAsand AAs to fill an armoire full of gear? I don't have a problem with the overall availability of high-end loot, I have a problem with the fact that 10-20 perople on a server control access to90% of it and put forth almost no effort to get it once they have the right equipment.

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I happen to think they should. I think it should be from BE's. You said you dont have a problem with loot availability but with 90% controlling access to it. You do realize that there are numerous POI's in the game that drop high end loot. That random NPCs do as well?Nightsisters, Erin Sif, Aakuans, Nyax, Acklay, Death Watch, Canyon Corsairs. These all drop high end loot regularly. Your perception isn't reality. You may see campers selling there loot more frequently, but I bet in the time and effort the camper takes to get the loot I can grind the cash to buy his items and get a few for myself.

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aries_liak wrote:
I personally hate your solution because it does nothing but remove levels of fun from the game so that looters do not monopolize a single spawn point. I like going to POI's and fighting bosses and having the chance of getting a good item. I don't think removing this is something necessary.

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If you like going there to fight, why do you need to be bribed to do it?

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This has to be the easiest reponse. I enjoy a challenge, but as your all to aware you can prolly hit every single npc in this game in a matter of about 1 month. So why keep playing? Maybe because I am rewarded with a special item, or something that enhances my playing time. Bribed is your terminalogy because you view loot in that manner. I view it as the reward. If I have no reason to go to a POI because you have your way and take out content in the tangible reward system I wont visit a POI, which is what you want. If I know ahead of time my visit wont net me anything its not really a point of interest is it? What is interesting about it? That it has NPC's I can kill? Does it have a story that I get visiting the place? If you don't give out rewards that are actually useful at your Point of Interest, you dont have much of a video game. So what I show up and lets say I cannot pvp because I dont have uber equipment and want to do something ingame what do you suggest i do? Visit the POI's and stare at the scenary? I got news for you this games graphics ain't better than me looking our a window. I'd sooner watch paint dry than hit a POI to be rewarded XP which I don't need.

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aries_liak wrote:
Just let these loot hunters have a reasonable way to get the loot that is easier than camping a POI and POI's will be what they are intended for. Points of Interest. Not Point of Credits

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Explain how any method could be easier than running a macro and going to bed?

First you keep doing this and its really annoying. If your problem is afk players ok. If its loot dropping from POI's instead of random ok. If its to much high-end loot ok. But stop taking 1 of my points and applying it to other topics. You shouldn't be able to launch any attack AFK. Period. The game rules state you cannot play unattended. Period. So back to my point. If it was easier to get good loot at other places than POI's people would simply do that. Who would camp a POI or care if they could go out and have a reasonable expection to find a +15 aa or ca when killing a reasonably tough mob. Removing POI drops doesn't solve that issue so why do that? just to take it out because someone is at a POI when you got there? Big whoop if you had the oppurtunity to go elsewhere.

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DMSL wrote:
Bazaar = limited pricing thus full of useless items.
Vendors = Good, but you spend a lot of time to find the items you want. Most are either not well stocked or are overpriced.
Upcoming system = Bad, will remove impulse buying which can decrease profits of merchants by, at the worst, 50%. This will lead to people quitting their profs and unltimately abandoning the game.

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Bazaar auctions (while horridly handicapped by a terribly flawed system) are still a good way to find things you're looking for. The "upcoming system" is yet to be determined, and if they listen to me (see links in my signature,) it'll lead to a much better economy for everyone involved.

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aries_liak wrote:
The minimal work aspect can hardly be a point considering "work" and "video game" dont really go hand and in hand. Most people camping a spawn or visiting a spawn spent a long amount of time learning the game mechanics, leveling there professions and building and aquiring equipment and items to even contend with other players.
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Which is why random spawns should be easier to get high end loot from than a POI.
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If it was easier to get good loot at other places than POI's people would simply do that. Who would camp a POI or care if they could go out and have a reasonable expection to find a +15 aa or ca when killing a reasonably tough mob. Removing POI drops doesn't solve that issue so why do that? just to take it out because someone is at a POI when you got there? Big whoop if you had the oppurtunity to go elsewhere.
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I absolutely disagree that POI's would be camped if you could loot a comparable +15 AA/Ca from any 50k ham npc.

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I say "work" because (as you may have noticed a theme among the detractors on this thread) a main argument for keeping things as-is is that campers "worked hard" and are "entitled to" uber loot because of this. If it's the wording you disagree with, then how about "level of effort." Finding and killing highly dynamic spawns require substantially more effort than standing in one place and killing them on cue, thus the reward must be porportional.

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aries_liak wrote:
I summarily argue that attachment prices for high-end loot has subsquently dramatically dropped at auction. Across Naritus and Tempest I have seen a lot of deflation. I would also argue the flow of more high end loot that provided huge advantages to those who camped POI's under the old spawn times was far more detramental to the game then allowing everyone an oppurtunity to get high end loot with increased spawns. Economically you going to need to show price inflation of CA's and AA's. I am buying +7 and +6 at 300k. I never could do this before the up'd poi timers. I am also finding it much easier to go find nightsisters, and high end npcs to kill and get good loot from.

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I don't see how arguing the timing of static spawns is relevant here. Making it faster or slower doesn't make me any less against it.

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aries_liak wrote:
Exactly what? Is your problem high-end rewards easily obtainable and monopolized from POI's or is it just High end loot is now more readily available?

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The first one.

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aries_liak wrote:
I think Top-of-the-line stuff should come from our crafters and not some spawn that no matter how difficult they make it can be beaten by a determined player. Who determined that SEA's where to be rare to begin with? I sure think that BE's would argue that any skill item should be craftable by there profession. It is the nature of there profession. This comment you make goes back to my previous response. You seem to have a problem more with the addition of high end loot into the game then camped poi's.
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I happen to think they should. I think it should be from BE's. You said you dont have a problem with loot availability but with 90% controlling access to it.

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You're preaching to the chior on that. I have always been of the opinion that no looted item should ever be better than a high quality crafted item (as was promised would be the case by the initial dev team, among many othe things.) I don't thinkit should be possible to have a belt that makesyou better at dancing, shooting a rifle, and making droids. But that's not going to happen now, I don't like it, but that's how it is. But so long as high end loot exists, I want to see a balance in the distribution, so that it cannot be farmed.

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aries_liak wrote:

I dont even understand this comment. Nyax the majority of the time drops junk as does acklay. Meaning camping a POI like Nyax wont net you +15 ca/aa's everytime especially with players and groups coming into the POI all the time. How is it good economically. Lower prices. Part iii I dont get. Your going to have explain this to me.

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So "the majority of the time" standing in that one spot, you won't get uber loot? How does that compare to say, almost any other spot on the map? If left an AFK loot bot running in the middle of the woods on Rori, how much could you expect to make per hour, as compared to that one spot where you get junk "the majority of the time?"

How does having less people who are selling something bring down the price? Less competition = higher price.

Blue frogs are something they have on the test servers when they want to attract a bunch of people for a big new feature (i.e. this past weekend with the GCW patch.) You can log on and get any skills, weapons, resources, faction points, credits, etc that you want for them. I am saying that staticuber loot droppingspawns aren't much different than this, in that almost no one would ever start from the bottom as a novice whatever while this is available. Nor would most people choose the harder way of getting loot when an easier way is available.

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aries_liak wrote:
You do realize that there are numerous POI's in the game that drop high end loot. That random NPCs do as well?Nightsisters, Erin Sif, Aakuans, Nyax, Acklay, Death Watch, Canyon Corsairs. These all drop high end loot regularly. Your perception isn't reality. You may see campers selling there loot more frequently, but I bet in the time and effort the camper takes to get the loot I can grind the cash to buy his items and get a few for myself.

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Do you realize that I never actually singled any out, nor even heard of them prior to this thread? I simply said that it is bad in general, and thus a thread devoted to two specific NPCs was born. I have no interest in loot hunting, I enjoy PvP and if I go to a POI, it's probably a guild event just for something to be a group activity. I do know however from my regular bazaar watching (on Bloodfin, where is see your 300k+6 and +7 CAs and AAslisted in the tens of millions) that the same 10 or so people always have multiples of the same very high endstuff. They claim that they can always get more from camping spawns, and I see no reason not to believe them.

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aries_liak wrote:
If I have no reason to go to a POI because you have your way and take out content in the tangible reward system I wont visit a POI, which is what you want. If I know ahead of time my visit wont net me anything its not really a point of interest is it? What is interesting about it? That it has NPC's I can kill? Does it have a story that I get visiting the place? If you don't give out rewards that are actually useful at your Point of Interest, you dont have much of a video game.

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So even if that POI is as interesting as working in assembly line day aftre day, you think it's a blast if you get some loot? I think that adding more actual content to them, while moving to loot out into the world is the solution that makes the game more interesting because it removes the bland repetition to at least some degree.

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aries_liak wrote:
First you keep doing this and its really annoying. If your problem is afk players ok. If its loot dropping from POI's instead of random ok. If its to much high-end loot ok. But stop taking 1 of my points and applying it to other topics. You shouldn't be able to launch any attack AFK. Period. The game rules state you cannot play unattended. Period. So back to my point.

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I definately have a problem with AFK players, but I see them as a symptom here, not the root problem. So long as uber loot exists, it should be sufficiently hard to get. If a macro can accomplish this task, then it is way too easy.

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aries_liak wrote:
Merchants should complaiin if its good for the consumers. Its the nature of business. Anything that potentially hurts merchant profitability wont go over well. Consumers should be protected by the devs. Merchants shouldn't be surprised they act on the consumers behalf more than there own. its why I never understood nerfing merchants. More merchants, easier to level, better resources should be entirely better for the game as it lowers prices with increased competition. Crafting should be easy to master because fundamentally more crafters is economically better for the consumer and any economics class will show that competition in markets has a significant impact on the quality and price of goods that is better for everyone as a whole.

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