Items And Loot Archive
Thread: PvE is a joke now
Jooko113
Mon May 02, 2005 6:23 pm
#14
PvE is dead now that you get nothing out of it from the time you put in it (this may have already been said but im too lazy to read through these essay sized posts)
NeocronztheChef
Mon May 02, 2005 7:49 pm
#15
Red9_Corran_Horn wrote:
generally i would not engage in this sort of discussion, but this post really made it for me, i cant see any evidence that you have given the CU a true and fair trial and your arguments simply hold zero water in my opinion.
Xalya_Shadowalker wrote:
I agree with the original sentiment of this post. Why bother to hunt Nightsisters or Krayts now? I don't find the mechanics of the new system fun at all. Sitting around waiting for a timer to finish so I can do my next attack, and playing snare-kite isn't my idea of fun. Before it took skill to solo high end mobs like Elders as a Master Rifleman, now its either not possible or god-awful boring. You're joking right?? before the CU it took a conceal shot macro or a strafe macro and a bit of kiting. THAT i'd call god awful boring. And even if I did solo a high-end mob, what happens? Oooh, a Nightsister lance with a worse dps than a crafter made vibro lance. Why did I waste those twenty minutes again? and you're telling me that before the CU, the 10mins it took to take down a canyon krayt solo only to get scales or even an empty corpse was worth it? how about the HUNDREDS of useless NS lances with the pathetic DoTs? do you remember portions of heavy duty leather? i wonder, how many elders did you used to kill, and how many of them dropped worthwhile loot??
Ooh, I got a CA... too bad those are near worthless now too. try selling it, yuo'll probably still be able to make money off it if you tried Oh hey, a piece of art! Yeah, pretty to look at, but I like being able to do things with my stuff. Oh wow, a crystal... tuned to crap. how many crap tunes did you have before the CU? i dont think you can blame the CU for tunes Krayt Scales? NS Shards? before the CU, these were only used in RIS unless they were near-legendary. not sure about post-CU, but i doubt its worse Geo Cubes? Krayt Tissue? All those do is mean the AS/WS has more unused experimentation points when they're done crafting. i highly doubt you're a crafter. my weaponsmith friends are loving the new system, and loots are definitely helpful. they can reduce speed, reduce action costs and still maintain a high DPS. their problem is that they cant make it to a factory or harvestor without an escort. All I'm doing now is sitting in the DWB and killing DW Ghosts hoping for a Binary Liquid or PvPing. And even PvP wise its bland. Two damage types mean there isnt and strategy as far as choosing weapons, you just pick the highest DPS and go. Before if you were PvPing you had to decide between (for Rifleman) the DXR6b or the T-21. The T-21 would blow through PSGs, but was less accurate. The DXR6b would bypass PSGs and be more accurate, but usually hit for slightly less. The Jawa became unusable as people got stun armor and psgs. i have to agree with with the lack of weapon variants, but i think this is more than made up by weapon specials. before the CU, it was KD/dizzy and strafeshot (for jedi) or headshot (or non-jedi). thats on top of the DoT. now, i have half my toolbar with delay shots, damage shots, low-action cost shots, bleed shots, state shots... pvp is MUCH improved, and you dont need a killer DoT or weapon to win
As far as the 4000 damage T-21s go, I had a nice T-21, but I could still be beated 1 on 1. 400-1800 damage T-21 does an average of 1100 damage, so with HS3, it would do 1100 pvp damage. Well, then add in armor. 90% Energy to 110 damage. Synthsteak to 50 damage. Plus, it was inaccurate as hell so I would miss every other shot. Just because a weapon has a high damage doesnt mean its an I-win button. DoT weapons, were unbalancing once the DoT reached a certain point, but small dots under 100st made things more interesting. so you're complaining about your 1800 T21? i had a 545max T21. funnily enough, it was also mitigated by 90% armour and synthsteak. funnily enough it was also inaccurate as hell. so eseentially we have the same disadvantes, except you have over 3 times my damage capacity. so why are you complaining??
spoken by someone who didn't bother to try in the last system.
Skwall
Mon May 02, 2005 8:45 pm
#16
I don't think the weapon cap should be a matter of 5% increase from standard (or whatever it is).
Basically SWG lacks content. Because it lacks content, players create their own by crafting the bext X item. The quest for the best X item keeps the player occupided and rewarded after all the time spent in acquiring it. Now that that's gone, players lose interest because its not meant to be the same. Its human nature to not want to be the same, people shouldn't have to nearly same stat weapons.
Same w/ grinding, people had a purpose to grind for jedi. Now that the system is kind of broken there is little point in grinding to one when a squad of BHs can take you down. Again, players have noting to do, players quit.
Content should NOT come at a price tag of $25.
giffordgekko
Mon May 02, 2005 8:50 pm
#17
BarrisAhazi wrote:
Now that you can't loot anything good (except pearls incase you are a jedi) or new weapons that are almost the exact same as any other, PvE is pointless. Weapon caps need removed and Modifiers need to work again. Until then the loot system is in drastic need of fixing.
lmao my modified dps is 775.5
i bet i can get it higher aswell with tapes, pups and a better carb 
Xalya_Shadowalker
Mon May 02, 2005 11:58 pm
#18
Red9_Corran_Horn wrote:
generally i would not engage in this sort of discussion, but this post really made it for me, i cant see any evidence that you have given the CU a true and fair trial and your arguments simply hold zero water in my opinion.
Xalya_Shadowalker wrote:
I agree with the original sentiment of this post. Why bother to hunt Nightsisters or Krayts now? I don't find the mechanics of the new system fun at all. Sitting around waiting for a timer to finish so I can do my next attack, and playing snare-kite isn't my idea of fun. Before it took skill to solo high end mobs like Elders as a Master Rifleman, now its either not possible or god-awful boring. You're joking right?? before the CU it took a conceal shot macro or a strafe macro and a bit of kiting. THAT i'd call god awful boring. But see, maybe it was just my dumb luck but I always stuck a bleed on the Elder with my concealshot and had to run like hell from the aggro and thread my waythough spawns of other NS in order to survive. And even if I did solo a high-end mob, what happens? Oooh, a Nightsister lance with a worse dps than a crafter made vibro lance. Why did I waste those twenty minutes again? and you're telling me that before the CU, the 10mins it took to take down a canyon krayt solo only to get scales or even an empty corpse was worth it?No,there were times it wasn't, butthey were made up foron the times it was.how about the HUNDREDS of useless NS lances with the pathetic DoTs? Were made up for when you did loot something you could sell for millions. do you remember portions of heavy duty leather? i wonder, how many elders did you used to kill, and how many of them dropped worthwhile loot?? Quite a few, though I always had better luck with SMC Councilwomen.
Ooh, I got a CA... too bad those are near worthless now too. try selling it, yuo'll probably still be able to make money off it if you tried I do try, but they don't sell like they used to. Considering only a few mods matter anymore (less than before) the chances of getting a decen SEA are even lower now. Oh hey, a piece of art! Yeah, pretty to look at, but I like being able to do things with my stuff. Oh wow, a crystal... tuned to crap. how many crap tunes did you have before the CU? i dont think you can blame the CU for tunes SureI can. I didn't get "fair' Krayt Pearls before the CU. And the real point I am making here is that the one thing that may possibly be useful, has yet another chance of being worthless. So lets say 1 in 10 chance of a crystal drop and a 1 in 10 chance of a good tune. Now its 1:100 I will get a usable loot from a ten minute fight. Bah. Krayt Scales? NS Shards? before the CU, these were only used in RIS unless they were near-legendary. not sure about post-CU, but i doubt its worse Bull. I used to get sets of armor made with these all the time. But instead of shards, how about Layers? Geo Cubes? Krayt Tissue? All those do is mean the AS/WS has more unused experimentation points when they're done crafting. i highly doubt you're a crafter. my weaponsmith friends are loving the new system, and loots are definitely helpful. they can reduce speed, reduce action costs and still maintain a high DPS. their problem is that they cant make it to a factory or harvestor without an escort. Mhmm, and the ones I've been talking to tell me the best way to make a good gun now is to use the worst resources you can to hit the dps cap at while experimenting damage to full. 2.0 speed gun with 200 damage has 100dps, 4.0 speed gun with 400 damage has 100dps. It takes the first gun 10 seconds to kill a 1200HAM mob, and it takes the second gun 8. ((Gun A: 200 damage - 2 sec delay - 200 damage - 2 sec delay - 200 damage - 2 sec delay - 200 damage - 2 sec delay - 200 damage - 2 sec delay - 200 damage . Gun B: 4 sec delay - 400 damage - 4 sec delay - 400 damage )) All I'm doing now is sitting in the DWB and killing DW Ghosts hoping for a Binary Liquid or PvPing. And even PvP wise its bland. Two damage types mean there isnt and strategy as far as choosing weapons, you just pick the highest DPS and go. Before if you were PvPing you had to decide between (for Rifleman) the DXR6b or the T-21. The T-21 would blow through PSGs, but was less accurate. The DXR6b would bypass PSGs and be more accurate, but usually hit for slightly less. The Jawa became unusable as people got stun armor and psgs. i have to agree with with the lack of weapon variants, but i think this is more than made up by weapon specials. before the CU, it was KD/dizzy and strafeshot (for jedi) or headshot (or non-jedi). thats on top of the DoT. now, i have half my toolbar with delay shots, damage shots, low-action cost shots, bleed shots, state shots... pvp is MUCH improved, and you dont need a killer DoT or weapon to win You didn't need one before. PvP before was about preparation and positioning because specials were unbalanced/broken. Sure, you have more attacks now so you don't spam the same thing over and over, but there still isnt any skill involved. Armor break, kd, power attack, leg hit, body hit, leg hit, body hit, etc. OR Underhand shot, stopping shot, torso shot, critical shot, ranged shot, critical shot, ranged shot, etc.
As far as the 4000 damage T-21s go, I had a nice T-21, but I could still be beated 1 on 1. 400-1800 damage T-21 does an average of 1100 damage, so with HS3, it would do 1100 pvp damage. Well, then add in armor. 90% Energy to 110 damage. Synthsteak to 50 damage. Plus, it was inaccurate as hell so I would miss every other shot. Just because a weapon has a high damage doesnt mean its an I-win button. DoT weapons, were unbalancing once the DoT reached a certain point, but small dots under 100st made things more interesting. so you're complaining about your 1800 T21? i had a 545max T21. funnily enough, it was also mitigated by 90% armour and synthsteak. funnily enough it was also inaccurate as hell. so eseentially we have the same disadvantes, except you have over 3 times my damage capacity. so why are you complaining?? What was the average damage on your T-21? How bady was it hurt by ranged mitigation? What if you used a DXR6b? How about using a 67% energy PSG against me while you wield a DXR6b? My point is, that strong weapons weren't overpowered if you were prepared. Pop a DoT on me and run away. KD/Dizzy me. Just because Person A's gun> Person B's doesnt mean personB's strategy> Person A or that Person C can't dispatch Person A by exploiting the weaknesses in Person A's template.
Ardor_SW
Tue May 03, 2005 12:15 am
#19
jasef,
i wouldntusecanovas registration date against him, i joined the game about the time he did register to forums
Hes posting from a completely different point of view though.
From his post i assume for him endgame = PvP and all should do the same as him, PvP all day
canovas:
not going to pick your post apart only going to say
some like to PvP, most like to PvE
Its nice that PvP is balanced now but at what price?Unrewarding PvE loot foralot of players is not acceptable...
a balance between the enjoyment of PvE and PvP has to be achieved,but making every weapon/armor more or less same quality is definitely not the answer
canova
Tue May 03, 2005 1:16 am
#20
Jasef wrote:
I only need to point out one problem in your post.
canova
Community Contributor
Posts: 369
Registered: 11-05-2004
People who have been playing for 22 months need something to do.
well that makes you a very stupid person for two reasons :
1- registration date means nothing. I started playing on Bloodfin in early july 2003. I was registered on another account here on those forums, but barely used it and endedup forgetting account name and passwords... was easier to create a new one.I joined the forums with the Canova account only in may 2004 when I felt the need to post advertisement for our guild (I am recruiter).
2- Having played longer than someone else in that game does not make you a more clever person. Some people can have been around for ages and still miss the point, be silly, have bad taste, understand nothing to game mechanics etc... On the other hand, some newbees will have everything in mind after a month playing and some people arrive here with an extended experience in MMORPGs.
This is why even though I have been around a very long time, I never use this point to lessen my opponents point of view. Doing so makes you a very very silly person and this is a totally irrelevant point.
So I suggest next time, before you post something, you think, try to elaborate something meaningful with your brain, post something constructive. Flaming someone with such pointless posts only proves how pathetic you are.
PTtech
Tue May 03, 2005 2:07 am
#21
canova wrote:
Jasef wrote:
I only need to point out one problem in your post.
canova
Community Contributor
Posts: 369
Registered: 11-05-2004People who have been playing for 22 months need something to do.
well that makes you a very stupid person for two reasons :1- registration date means nothing. I started playing on Bloodfin in early july 2003. I was registered on another account here on those forums, but barely used it and ended up forgetting account name and passwords... was easier to create a new one. I joined the forums with the Canova account only in may 2004 when I felt the need to post advertisement for our guild (I am recruiter).
2- Having played longer than someone else in that game does not make you a more clever person. Some people can have been around for ages and still miss the point, be silly, have bad taste, understand nothing to game mechanics etc... On the other hand, some newbees will have everything in mind after a month playing and some people arrive here with an extended experience in MMORPGs.
This is why even though I have been around a very long time, I never use this point to lessen my opponents point of view. Doing so makes you a very very silly person and this is a totally irrelevant point.
So I suggest next time, before you post something, you think, try to elaborate something meaningful with your brain, post something constructive. Flaming someone with such pointless posts only proves how pathetic you are.
I must agree. I learn something new about this game everytime I get to play. Isn't that what makes life worth living?
canova
Tue May 03, 2005 2:08 am
#22
Xalya_Shadowalker wrote:
Red9_Corran_Horn wrote:
and you're telling me that before the CU, the 10mins it took to take down a canyon krayt solo only to get scales or even an empty corpse was worth it?No,there were times it wasn't, butthey were made up foron the times it was.
Well, admitteldy Xalya, hunting a giant dragon was boring like hell... I remember shooting at those with a group for half an hour... Problem with the old system, is that the only way there was to make a thingy harder was to raise its HAM and raise its protection (and sometimes raise the amount of damage they would do).. you ended up with stuff like DWBs or Nova troopers or whatever you needed to shoot at for ages until they would get down... And a few shots from them would kill most players. You needed a full equipement food etc... to be able to fight those and the issue was if yuo died, the fun was over for the night (clone, rebuff, wait for stomach to empty etc...) NOw at least, you can keep playing and enjoying your time even after a death. I prefer a system where a fight never lasts forever. Either you win, or you loose but it does not take 3 hours of pointless shooting. Now when you fight an enemy of higher level than yuo, kiling it might take time, a few minutes, but never half an hour. I prefer to have dungeons hard cause of numerous mobs you need to control (with crowd control) etc.. that super uber killing machines and bullet proof armors. I admit they need to adjust levels on a few things but that new system is compatible with a much funnier PVE.
All I'm doing now is sitting in the DWB and killing DW Ghosts hoping for a Binary Liquid or PvPing. And even PvP wise its bland. Two damage types mean there isnt and strategy as far as choosing weapons, you just pick the highest DPS and go. Before if you were PvPing you had to decide between (for Rifleman) the DXR6b or the T-21. The T-21 would blow through PSGs, but was less accurate. The DXR6b would bypass PSGs and be more accurate, but usually hit for slightly less. The Jawa became unusable as people got stun armor and psgs. i have to agree with with the lack of weapon variants, but i think this is more than made up by weapon specials. before the CU, it was KD/dizzy and strafeshot (for jedi) or headshot (or non-jedi). thats on top of the DoT. now, i have half my toolbar with delay shots, damage shots, low-action cost shots, bleed shots, state shots... pvp is MUCH improved, and you dont need a killer DoT or weapon to win You didn't need one before. PvP before was about preparation and positioning because specials were unbalanced/broken. Sure, you have more attacks now so you don't spam the same thing over and over, but there still isnt any skill involved. Armor break, kd, power attack, leg hit, body hit, leg hit, body hit, etc. OR Underhand shot, stopping shot, torso shot, critical shot, ranged shot, critical shot, ranged shot, etc.
First the fact that you use more attacks is already an improvement. And when you PVP in groups, with complementary skills, even more special attacks become useful. And yes you kinda needed
As far as the 4000 damage T-21s go, I had a nice T-21, but I could still be beated 1 on 1. 400-1800 damage T-21 does an average of 1100 damage, so with HS3, it would do 1100 pvp damage. Well, then add in armor. 90% Energy to 110 damage. Synthsteak to 50 damage. Plus, it was inaccurate as hell so I would miss every other shot. Just because a weapon has a high damage doesnt mean its an I-win button. DoT weapons, were unbalancing once the DoT reached a certain point, but small dots under 100st made things more interesting. so you're complaining about your 1800 T21? i had a 545max T21. funnily enough, it was also mitigated by 90% armour and synthsteak. funnily enough it was also inaccurate as hell. so eseentially we have the same disadvantes, except you have over 3 times my damage capacity. so why are you complaining?? What was the average damage on your T-21? How bady was it hurt by ranged mitigation? What if you used a DXR6b? How about using a 67% energy PSG against me while you wield a DXR6b? My point is, that strong weapons weren't overpowered if you were prepared. Pop a DoT on me and run away. KD/Dizzy me. Just because Person A's gun> Person B's doesnt mean personB's strategy> Person A or that Person C can't dispatch Person A by exploiting the weaknesses in Person A's template.
Well the problem with the old system Xalya is that sincerely the level of preparation you needed to be able to do anything significant in PVP was way too high. I admit it gave incentive to work hard for months in order to be able to afford it, but let's face it, since anyway there was not enough of legendary weapons anyway, that was limited to a very tiny proportion of players. The resustl of such system was that PVP became a restricted sandbox of a very small proportion of players, always the same, maybe 0,005% of the server population, who would fight each other again and again. PVP should and was meant to be a popular part of the game, it was meant to be the most fun thing in SWG, look at early documents: civil war etc... But instead of this the system pushed 99% of the players to avoid the best they could any PVP experience.
You needed to pick a particular specy. Not all species were good at PVP. Humans had a tremendous advantage on twileks,I can tell, I have both. So if you dreamed to play a rodian, not good.
First you needed a particular template. Not all professions were available for PVP. So, even if what you did like/wanted to be was a carbineer /CH you had to forget it and either go for a Mrifle something or some sort of inconsistent unfinished addition of different melee skills that would allow you to get enough high defenses.
Then you needed to buff (Doc + musician +dancer), of course, and that meant delay every time you died. Crates of uber food. That meant also lot of cash.
Then you needed a good equipement: Very good armors, but also all these looted stuff that would make the difference between cannon meat and an invicible god : SEAs, legendary weapons, high dot weapons etc... Those were necessary, cause they were sometime so unbalanced that they would give no chance to a regular opponent. I had personaly aquired all the above stuff but the legendary stuff. Since every regular PVPer had his Mind fire lance or his uber T21, there was nothing I could do in most PVP encounter. I had not a single chance to win except if shooting at them when they were afk (which i did not do). A simple krayt nice damage slice T21 was not enough (or DRX6) to compete with the true PVPers.
Once you had all this, you also needed to join the right guild, i.e. a guild of uber PVPer powergamers. Soon or later, a good PVPer would end up needing to join one of those guilds.
Are all those things above necessary? maybe not, you could maybe decide to neglect one by going twilek for example... but still you'd carry that disadvantage a lot.
Getting all these stuff meant of course lot of cash. In order to purchase all those you needed millions. Even if you were lucky enough to loot the legendary weapon yourself (which can take years) you still needed tones of cash to purchase the right SEA, the food crates etc... That means you needed to play the game a certain way: either getting an alt crafter who would factory mass produce a popular thing (compo armors) or camping some popular POIs hours and hours long in order to loot the thingy you'd have a chance to sell. Or going imp, buying an ATST and running solo missions for days long on dantooine.
Playing that way means boredom for many players, which is why they were reluctant to make such sacrifice.
So the system would discourage the large majority of players and encourage lame tactics. Since the system would amount to making some poeple invincible to other people (for example a casual PVPer would have 0 chance to defeat a PVPer with a 1000mind fire dot lance) that would lead to frustration and entice players to look for the "weaker" target. Which is why camping newbee areas overt to gank Tefed newbees or unprepared players was common. Someone who had been slained 30 times by the same PVPer realizing he had no chance to even getting close to win, would feel entitled to do the same with the player who would be an easy target for him. So the system would lead to lame behaviour, lack of ethic in PVP which was badly reflecting on the community as a whole.
So of course now, the system allows lesser diversification. The difference between players in terms of equipement and therefore strength will be decreased. Once you reach the same level, players are way more even than they used to be. The equipement will still make a difference : the person who will have the weapon making 10% more damage, the amor with 10% more protection (against the right type of damage), the food/spices, the enhancements will still have an advantage over the other one, but that advantage won't be totally unbalanced. It will also be compensated by the fact that other factors will enter into account and give a chance to the opponent to get the advantage, like the use of the terrain.
This is why I think the current system is an improvement. I hope that it will lead much more people to PVP on a regular basis, and make the fun and challenging content of the game affordable to everyone provided a "reasonable" investment in the game.
To summarize, I think that even though it reduces the incentive for players to look around for loot, it is making that game much more healthy.
Message Edited by canova on 05-03-2005 11:10 AM
Insidius
Tue May 03, 2005 9:00 am
#23
Jasef wrote:
I only need to point out one problem in your post.
canova
Community Contributor
Posts: 369
Registered: 11-05-2004People who have been playing for 22 months need something to do.
Yeah?
So what do you have to say to ME, then? I registered on the old forums (before they wiped all accounts) back in May of 2000, before the game was even in beta. So since forum account age is the only thing that matters in this discussion, I win.
Imperial46385
Tue May 03, 2005 9:19 pm
#25
id have to agree and sayPvE is a joke.... i never intended to be a crafter or any other prof that makes money in a noncombat way.... ive always been strictly loots since back when i got the game in 03... the problem is now that everything i used to kill for funand loot(black sun, DWB, krayts, nyax, acklay, GDK, NS, and the warren) is down right impossible to solo succesfully for hours and now the only thing i can kill that drops anything of value is gurk king lol.....i mean come on looting was my profession and its gone....it easily has gotten as badly nerfed as armorsmith and doc
and if you havent been playing the game long enough to care why even post? honestly thats all i did in this game and its gone
Jooko113
Tue May 03, 2005 10:43 pm
#26
Kakabus wrote:
I think Hippies have taken over the game.
bingo