Image Designer Archive

Lately I have been getting stiffed a lot. I have all of my prices in my bio and tell customers to check them out before we start, then confirm that the prices are acceptable. It seems like half thepeople I've worked onin the last 2 days, who agreed to all of this, when we finished said something along the lines of "sry i'm broke." (and one award winner who wandered off in the middle of the ID session to talk to a guy who was selling a gun then said at the end, "sorry, I spent all my money on that gun.")

Granted, I also have some wonderful customers who are not only friendly and fun to work with, but also pay what I askand sometimes more. I don't like to quote a total price up front because so many people think of something else they would like to try while I am working, and I feel awkward announcing a running tab as they want to change more things.

Since I charge 1k for the least expensive change I've been thinking of asking for that up front. I am thinking of opening a small "salon" and have a feeling that if peoplemake an appointment and come out to my place they will be more likely to pay, but I do a lot of work in cantinas and around town. Would any more experienced people be kind enough to share their secrets to getting paid?

thank you!

I wish there was something similar to secure trade for Image Designers. It would work well to with the way the ID interface is setup. For example you set a price, and if they hit accept the money is automatically withdrawn from their bank account. However if they don't want to pay, or that's not the style they want they could hit reject.

I have to admit working on a fellow for a half hour and then getting stiffed (I'm going to the bank to get my money) and never returning really took a lot of the wind out of my sails with working with customers.

I don't want to over generalize, but I've noticed something specific. Since gaining MID, I have had numerous requests for changes, some major some minor. The oddity I've noticed, and maybe someone else can tell me if they've noticed the same, is that of the 12 times now (yes, I keep count, as I keep a list of those who do it) that I've been stiffed 11 of them have been Bothans!

Anyone else noticed this?

Please, for the love of Mary, don't go off on me for Bothan bashing, my in-game business partner is a Bothan. I did not say 'all' or in any way insinuate that Bothan players are bad!

That's odd. Most of the Bothans I've worked on have been very good customers. You have my sympathies.

Some of my best friends are Bothans.

There's just notelling who, at the end of an ID session, isgoing to rip you off and who isn't. People surprise me all the time.Lots of times you think you know just how it's going to end but you really don't.You can get a customer that willonly taketwo minutes of your time for a hairstyle change and they'll lay a huge tip on you. Or you can get a customerwho'll stand theretaking up your time for as long as you'll let them and they'll want towalk away without paying.

To answer your question, no I don't ask for payment up front. I've considered it aftereach bad patch of customers I've run into, but I can never bring myself to actually do it.I do, however,tell people what specific changes will cost before I make the changes. That way you can sort of weed out the folks who freak out at the notion that you're trying to make a living by using your ID skills. But even with that you get a fair number of folks who'll shine you on. They'll tell you the cost isn't a problem but at the end there's some excuse as to why they can't meet your fee..."My dog chewed up all my credits."

The thing is, the more business you generate the higher the number ofincidents you'll start havingwherepeoplerip youoff. In other words the more you put yourself out there, drumming up business,the more you going to start noticing how often you'll run into someone who's not going to do right by you and your profession.

Bottom line is it makes me hope we'll get some form of secure trade built into our Image Design user interface. We need the ability to be able to plug our fee into the window where the customer accepts or refuses the image design change.

I used to ask for payment up front from people I got funny vibes from. But I haven't gotten funny vibes nor have I been stiffed in several weeks. Maybe because I'm mostly ID'ing people who are referred to me by their friends. I've been getting all good apples Some people pay me up front anyway even if I don't ask and I thank them for putting their trust in me.

Oh and I do have a salon with master architect furniture, and reclining chairs lined up looking like hair salon chairs...so maybe they feel intimidated into paying hehe. But really I've been very lucky with great customers lately.

Well, that's great Kwee. I'm happy that you're not having any problems with getting ripped off. Maybe it's because you have a salon set up. Maybe it's because you're on a server where players might be more inclined to roleplay at your salon and pay you for your services. Maybe it's because you work mostly on folks that have been recommended by other folks.Folks who come to me on therecommendation of other players aren't the ones ripping me off either. But I, and many others I'm sure,also work on plenty of players who'll just stop you on the street whilewalking through a town.Lots of players under lots of different circumstances will stop an Image Designer if they see the title over a player's head. And trust me, there are a fair number of them who'll waste your time.

At any rate,whether you've alwaysbeen lucky or whether you continue to be lucky isn't really the point. The fact that it isn't happening to you doesn't mean it's not a problem for a good many other Image Designers. A number offolkshave mentioned here in this forumthat it's a problem for them. That being the case and since we have the ear of someone who is in a position to help us with improvements to our interface, now might be the time to ask, on behalf ofALL IDers, that we get on option for secure trade for our services built into our interface.

I don't think anyone is saying that 9 out of 10ID customersare rippingIDers off for their fees.But does it have to beTHAT bad before we can mention that it might be nice to have a secure way for us to trade our services?It doesn't have to effectyou personally before secure trade for IDers seems like a good idea, does it?

We get that it's not a problem for you. You've said that after every time someone else has mentioned it is a problem for them.You're not against the idea that something might be added to the interfacethat would make our getting paid for our work more of a sure thing are you?

Well, if I read correctly, the topic of adding a secure trade interface has been mentioned several times on the interface thread. Kwee has been great enough to get the stuff together that we have so far, however, it really isn't her responsibility to address every issue affecting IDs, that's what Rilawyn has been doing . I think Kwee was just answering the original topic of the thread anyway, not saying thatpeople stiffing isnot a valid issue.

Now, answering the original topic, I haven't had tons of problems with getting stiffed. It happens occasionally of course, but I blame myself for not clarifing my prices up front. I feel funny bringing it up somehow. Now, I rarely get anyone that expects ID for free, usually it's just a very low payment,the catch is with entertainers. If I'm in a group dancing, and someone in that group asks for an ID, I usually consider it a 50/50 shot that they will pay me. However, I have gotten some amazing tips from entertainers as well . I think that it has to do with the entertainer commeraderie, since we train for free and practice for free, sometimes they think everything is for free. But, like I said, I fault myself forchoosing to not be more direct up front. I also feel bad because I know how difficult it is to make money as an entertainer.

I would think that it would be better to have a salon, just because if someone takes the time and effort to run out and find the salon, it seems they're a lot more commited to getting a makeover than some random guy saying "make me as fat as you can". I bet it also depends heavily on the server and how use to IDs people are...for some reason people on Tarq assume they have to pay I guess, lucky me!

That's pretty awful though that they know all your prices up front and still run off! I hope the salon idea works for you, until we do get some form of secure trade!

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Would any more experienced people be kind enough to share their secrets to getting paid?

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I'm not sure what offended you about my posts Moonlily. I was answering the above question by the original poster. The same topic has come up several times with the original poster alwaysasking for people to share strategieson how to ensure payment. The things that have worked towards my getting paid have been:

1/ Asking for payment in advance if I get funny vibes from thewould-be customer

2/Setting up a pricing scheme with changes ranging from 1k to 4k per

3/ Letting people know what my prices are up front

4/ Giving 50% discounts to full time entertainers and neighbors

5/ Roleplaying my image design with a carefully furnished beauty salon

6/ Putting advertisements on the bazaar for my shop/salon

7/ Offering a 1k off the total discount starting at the third visit

This didn't all happen overnight. I've been building my Image Design business from day two. I'm now to the point where ImostlyID referrals and established customers. Being on Starsider may increase my odds of getting paid for my time as it does have a lot of roleplayers, however I got stiffed a lot before I had my pricing scheme set up. If I didn't say I charged anything up front, many people would treat me like an npc vendor. That is why I got together with Kink, Wensicia, and Faith on Starsider to set up a pricing scheme. We were tired of getting stiffed. It's still happened occasionally since then, but it's been extremely rare, and a dramatic difference.

You are right that I did not includea secure trade window in the section I sent Ood_Bnar on our user interface. It had nothing to do with my not thinking it a good idea, it would certainly make asking for payment less awkward for me AND ensure payment... I simplycould not include everything I wanted to due to space constraints.The final document was a nine page monster and I'm sure poor Ood_Bnar's eyes popped out of his head when hesaw my "summary" of what women wanted from the art team What notes I did end up putting in each section were very brief and so I just pickedtwo or threeof the most common requests in the user interface section.Mostof the many ideas inOod_Bnar's threadare ones I have seen posted before, but I did not include them all. I'm glad to see that Ood_Bnar came to getspecifics

I was not offended, Kwee. I was pointing out that the only responseyou seem to offer when someone posts about getting ripped off or when someoneproposes that our interface be improved with a feature that will helpensure that we'llget paid, is thatgetting paid isnot a problem for you. I've never seen you offer support for improving our interface in this way at all. I was simply trying to point outthat whether youpersonally need it or notI thinksome insurance against deadbeats would be a good thing for all IDers. So I'd rather not continue to see the idea shot down, ignored, or deemed unnecessarybyanyone who'srepresenting IDers here. I mean this in the friendliest most constructive way possible. Trying to look at the big picture here.

I suppose I can see how youmight think I did not support a secure payment methodreading my more recent posts. When people bring up getting stiffed all I sayis that I rarely get stiffed any more and why.Thatdoesn't mean I've never been stiffed (it used to happen to me all the time, or I'd get paid5-50 credits for 20 minutes of work).I'm all for a secure payment method and have discussed itseveral times with my Image Designer friends on Starsider. But then even more than that we've discussed a way to zoom in on the client, a special lightsource,or a way to make them freeze so we can work on them and thosesuggestions didn't make it into my doc either... The only post I recall making recently on the topic of a secure trade system was that I did not like the idea ofhaving a capof four digits for the amount of credits we could charge as some of us have five digit charges for several changes. The whole topic has always seemed complex to me and dependent on a new user interface being implemented first. Given our current interface there is no sensical time at which to charge the person since the typical customer previews and accepts many changes before choosing what they want, and often changes their mind even after they've chosen. I really feel for the user interface person if a secure trade window is ok'd for us.

The document included wish list items from a multitude of professions. I really tried to be unbiased and included things I wasn't particularly fond of or were controversial but were requested often. One example is species/gender change. Tailor, architect, and image designer itemswere the mostprevalent since they depend so heavily on artwork. However,Icannot and shouldnot beconsidered a representative of all of these different professions. Thatfalls to each profession'scorrespondent. Rilawyn is the Image Designer correpondent and has been doing her best to communicate our bugs and issues to the devs (she has not had anything to report to us). If you feel that something needs to get the attention of the devs, she has offeredmany times to pass it along if you in-game-email/pm/post it along to her.

Hey, I know I'm not an "Image Designer" and all, but all I can say is that if SOE found a way to implement a "secure trade" for Image Designers, I'd support it fully, because I love Image Designers, and I've actually seen them get stiffed before, and payed for the guy instead, because I think that's just really **edit**ty for someone to do something like that.

That's just my two cents.

Lowca, Corinth Xalius
The guy runnin' around with the Blonde Cornrows! Thanks Babs!