CUEmu - Thread Posts

Kwee

Fri Jun 18, 2004 6:43 am

Guys...I warned you that things would not change overnight. On the bug side, true to their word, they have been knocking them out. There are stilla fewbug fixesbeing looked atrelated to the UI. As to exp progression or timers Runesabre told us what he could give us for Pub 9. He never said "That's all you're going to get" but has instead told us via various sources (posts, through me, at FanFest) that they are still talking about what to do. I heard from him as recently as yesterday. Right now however and probalby through next week, all of the devs are swamped with Pub 9 and rightly so. Would you have wanted them to throw aside our minipublish to work on residual issues from the ones before? They are trying very hard to meet the minipublish and publish goal dates they've set for themselves, and even then things don't always work out. I know it's frustrating not seeing things change to our liking quickly, but I am one correspondent out of over 30 and I have only been impressed by the devs' integrity in continuing to listen to my feedback, their commitment to squash our bugs, and plans to further discuss our issues. Would you speak to the devs like you are in some posts to their faces? They care very much for us and do not justsee us as paying customers.But they have to prioritize their time. What really makes me sad is only a handful of ID's seem to see and value the many wonderful aspects of our minipublish and how much overtime work the devs put into communicating with players (corrs and noncorrs alike).

Our dev, Runesabre, and JustG have all told me at various times that they've looked through our forum. Do you want them to spend their time reading some constructive posts and many rant posts? Or all constructive posts? I also read the forums every day and am continually sending quotes from the best posts or links to constructive threads to the devs to look over. I really value my free time and doing corr stuff takes up a lot of it every day. It's not just frustrating but time consuming having to sift through rants to find the good stuff. As always I'm not saying that you shouldn't be critical of certain aspects of the minipublish, we have some real issues, but it is most effective if you are constructive in your criticism.

We have in the past prided ourselves in being a tight-knit, constructive,funcommunity and I'm just not seeing that much lately. Yes we have issues, but our forum shouldbe a place where thought-provoking discussion (with a good bit of silliness thrown in) provide something ID's want to be a part of. A comment I hear from almost every ID I talk to in game that does notparticipate in the forum is that lately when they've come tocheck things outthey are driven away by the tone of many of the posts. I know I've been a little grouchy in some of my posts recently and I'm sorry for that. I spend a lot of my time reading this forum and lately that has meantan almost constant inlet of negativity I don't want or need to do my jobeffectively.

Some of the most powerfully impactful posts (which I've passed along to the devs) have been from ID's who are just as upset and frustrated asothersaboutthis or that issue but presented their arguments in a passionate AND constructivemanner. I do notwant any issue (present or future) totear apart our little family. Who's with me?

Message Edited by Kwee on 06-18-2004 09:51 AM

Kwee Glitterwing of Starsider
Ex Image Designer Correspondent ~ Elder Tailor
& Kwee-kwee ~ Master Image Designer
Gamer Girl Columnist ~ swg.warcry.com
Ivory & Topaz of TC ~ Elder Dancers, IDs, Musicians

Syzygy-Gorath

Fri Jun 18, 2004 6:49 am

#2

Kwee wrote:

[snip] Would you have wanted them to throw aside our minipublish to work on residual issues from the ones before? [snip]

Given that I very firmly believe that many of the current issues stem from communication and scheduling problems, yes, I would have liked them to postpone our mini-publish until they had worked out the previous problems and had time to do it right. This sort of half-done push-and-patch mentality only heaps up more, and more, and more bugs and poor implementations that will have to be fixed…and yet they forge ahead and make more work for themselves to "fix later" rather than taking the time to do anything right.

In case you missed it the several times I've said it before, I'd rather have waited 6 more months and had a functioning, well designed, well implemented system

Edit: Two other points.

First, I could give a flying fig what Runesabre and JustG read. This is not a thinktank for their amusement, this is a professional community forum. And every community needs to vent, especially when they feel particularly slighted or ignored. I think we as a community spent a very long time being patient, constructive, friendly, helpful, et cetera—and what did we get for our efforts? We got lied to, slapped in the face, and then rerelegated to the back burner. I'm sorry if they expected us to go back to being sweetness and light and to lick their shoes for what little scraps they decided to throw our way, but I am honestly incredibly insulted by 8.1 and many of the changes that were introduced in it. I have no other place to express that disgust to people who understand my feelings but here.

Second, I have and will continue to argue that the attempts at communication made by the devs is halfassed and not acceptable. Until I see any reason to believe otherwise I won't be changing that view. "Soon," and "we're looking into it," are not communications. They are evasions. I refuse to cave to the mindset that any post by a Redname is "communication." In order for there to be communication there must be a meaningful exchange of information—so far that is not the case, nor do I believe it will be anytime soon.

Message Edited by Syzygy-Gorath on 06-18-2004 09:57 AM

Message Edited by GarVa on 06-18-2004 07:09 AM

Edit2: Psst, hey GarVa, what'd you change? Looks the same as when I posted it

Message Edited by Syzygy-Gorath on 06-18-2004 10:18 AM

œ Slone Varnillian œ Eicia Obai œ Panda-Sy œMost of the universe's problems can be solved by the application of a brick to the side of the right head.The problem is if you don't have a big enough brick or can't find the right head. The devil is in the details.œ Galena Varnillian œ Ammon œ Gwrtheyrn œ

Just_Bri

Fri Jun 18, 2004 6:49 am

#3

Edit: See below

Message Edited by Just_Bri on 06-18-2004 10:41 AM

____________________________________________________________

"V E E L A" S A I D - Retired Master Smuggler, cancelled 7/27/2005. SOE, think about every non-Jedi "cancelled" signature you've seen, and remember that there will be more as you forget the communities that makes this game's heart and soul. Entertainers, Crafters, Hybrids, Non-Jedi Combats, and Smugglers. When you are closing shop on SWG, remember that you ignored the REAL community to cater to an alpha class that assured this game would never be "balanced."

*Veela encourages you to adopt this sig

Plagvreugd

Fri Jun 18, 2004 6:57 am

#4

Hmm, I can't claim a perfect track record but I think that trying to look on the bright side, or when you can't, trying to make your case in a civilized and constructive way is a good thing. I will endeavour to make my posts a beacon of well constructed positivity, or if that fails, a quagmire of just silly uselessness.

Now with so many difficult words (hey, I'm not a native speaker) - how can this be anything but civilized?

Thewt of Infinity

Edit: but I think Sygyzy has a valid point there too.

Message Edited by Plagvreugd on 06-18-2004 03:59 PM

Sir_Voor

Fri Jun 18, 2004 7:24 am

#5

Kwee wrote:

I do notwant any issue (present or future) totear apart our little family. Who's with me?

Sorrry but I'm not with you on this

The devs have insulted us too much (By "us" I also mean youKwee) for me to be nice anymore. If you are willing to fight the devs for the good of the profession then I'm with you, but I can not be passive and act as ID is even playable anymore. I have been playing SWG sense bata 3, and got a one year subscription, that will be up in late july. as it stands not I will be leaving then because of the repeat insults the devs have done to us.

I hope action by the devs will happen before then, but nothing less then that will change my mind.

[`M Sir VOOR N`\

Just_Bri

Fri Jun 18, 2004 7:40 am

#6

Sir_Voor wrote:

I can not be passive and act as ID is even playable anymore.

I can agree with Sir Voor on this. I pretty much haven't done any ID work at all since I moved to test. I still have my ID on Chillastra, but I don't log in there. And I refuse to do any more stat migrations. You can say "that is my choice" and shift the reasonings back on to me, but that would be a cope out.

If you want positivity, that is fine. I will smile in every post.

But I want solutions. Fair trade.

____________________________________________________________

"V E E L A" S A I D - Retired Master Smuggler, cancelled 7/27/2005. SOE, think about every non-Jedi "cancelled" signature you've seen, and remember that there will be more as you forget the communities that makes this game's heart and soul. Entertainers, Crafters, Hybrids, Non-Jedi Combats, and Smugglers. When you are closing shop on SWG, remember that you ignored the REAL community to cater to an alpha class that assured this game would never be "balanced."

*Veela encourages you to adopt this sig

Mawie

Fri Jun 18, 2004 7:41 am

#7

Sir_Voor wrote:

Sorrry but I'm not with you on this The devs have insulted us too much (By "us" I also mean youKwee) for me to be nice anymore. If you are willing to fight the devs for the good of the profession then I'm with you, but I can not be passive and act as ID is even playable anymore. I have been playing SWG sense bata 3, and got a one year subscription, that will be up in late july. as it stands not I will be leaving then because of the repeat insults the devs have done to us.

I usually find most of your posts very informative, but I have to admit this shocked me. I think the entire point of Kwee's post wasn't to tell us (as in the ID community) that we don't have the right to complain (because we are all certainly entitled to do so), but if we are going to voice our opinions, to do it in a manner that is mature and helpful.

YES, the profession is slightly borked.

YES, we are now an object of abuse across every server.

YES, most of us non-MIDshaven't see the light of day since we began this grind.

YES, MIDs deserve time bonuses.

WE ALL KNOW THIS. The question is why is it some people can say this in such a way that people are positively responsive, and why do some other feel the need to be antagonistic?

No one is saying "be passive and let the devs and big honcho people walk all over you." I think this is more of a request for the people who claim that they love being an ID to act like it.

So, in closing, I'm with you Kwee.

Editted for spelling.

Message Edited by Mawie on 06-18-2004 10:44 AM

Mawie Odaka

Master Dancer

Master Swordswoman

Rebel Colonel

Syzygy-Gorath

Fri Jun 18, 2004 7:46 am

#8

Mawie wrote:

No one is saying "be passive and let the devs and big honcho people walk all over you." I think this is more of a request for the people who claim that they love being an ID to act like it.

Yes, well, that's just it, isn't it? Many of us have flat-out stated that since 8.1 we do not love being IDs anymore. That's why we're bitter and snappish. Because this joke of an "enhancement" has ruined our play style, despite claims that that was the last thing that RS wanted to see happen in this publish.

œ Slone Varnillian œ Eicia Obai œ Panda-Sy œMost of the universe's problems can be solved by the application of a brick to the side of the right head.The problem is if you don't have a big enough brick or can't find the right head. The devil is in the details.œ Galena Varnillian œ Ammon œ Gwrtheyrn œ

Mawie

Fri Jun 18, 2004 8:00 am

#9

Syzygy-Gorath wrote:

Yes, well, that's just it, isn't it? Many of us have flat-out stated that since 8.1 we do not love being IDs anymore. That's why we're bitter and snappish. Because this joke of an "enhancement" has ruined our play style, despite claims that that was the last thing that RS wanted to see happen in this publish.

I'm an ID, too. Believe it or not, this is the second time I'm going for master image designer. Since rebeginning this profession, there are times when I want to throw my hands in the air and holler "screw it" at my computer... but I haven't. I love this profession THAT MUCH. Trust me, my poor guild mates are always hearing me complain about huddling in a dark, drab corner in an ID tent--but I haven't come onto these boards and accosted anyone because of MY decision to follow a profession path.

Do you honestly think that RS was sitting in his cubical pondering how to screw Image Designers over? Yeah, they screwed up... but I doubt that was their intention. Don't forget, for MONTHS IDers have been moaning and complaining about the people who master the profession in 2 hours, and there were SEVERAL IDers who ASKED outright for the ability to CONTROL STAT MIGRATIONS. And look, we got it. This community complained enough AND WE GOT WHAT WE WANTED.

It is just not how we wanted it though. Nothing is good enough, is it?

The answer is if you hate being an ID that much that you feel the need to whine and complain about it to the extent that a large number of people in this community have, try a new profession. That's what most people do when they get sick of their old one.

Mawie Odaka

Master Dancer

Master Swordswoman

Rebel Colonel

Plagvreugd

Fri Jun 18, 2004 8:02 am

#10

I think what Kwee is saying, but if I'm wrong, she's quite welcome to correct me, is that even if we didn't get what we wanted in this publish, and if there are serious issues with our profession, still we can post on this in a constructive way. Help think up solutions, report bugs, comment on what you would like to see and well, there are probably more ways that I can't thinkof right now.

Questions like "why do the devs hate us?" are very illustrative of howpeople feel and as such they serve some purpose, but if we go on in this fashion nothing will change for the better.

However, this is a two way street. I'm not saying that the devs don't care much for us besides the dollars, euros and pounds we pay, for I'm sure they care about making a decent product that people like to play and that they can be proud of, but they could acknowledge our griefs and inform us of their ideas and plans.

The key issue here is communication. For our part, we can try to be civil, constructive, and a bit more light hearted on these fora, on the other hand, the devs and CSRs can try to let us know more. I'm not saying that they are not doing this already, but from the many questions that are to be found on this forum, it is obvious that we need more information and acknowledgement. Even something like: "I can't do anything about your problem right now, but I see your point and I understand your issues and concerns" would help a lot, I think. Locking, deleting, and modifying threads (sorry to bring it up again) without much explanation orobvious purpose, does not help, and will only create further mistrust.

Thewt of Infinity

DrkSensei

Fri Jun 18, 2004 8:07 am

#11

People who love their profession..tend to get pretty damn angry when someone who doesn't understand it (obviously) mucks around with it. The reason they get angry is that same love that you want them to show. The folks who call for answers don't do it because they don't care. If they did they would just nod and smile and not give a damn about the rest of you. With a love for a profession comes a certain degree of wanting to protect the thing you have come to enjoy. It is human nature.

I am no Image Designer. However the ones I know have always been very dedicated breed. like any service industry,they have to deal sometimes with folks that make my trigger finger itch. Until recently they have done it with a smile. After awhile of being ignored,beaten up on(ID Timer),mocked( hey a kitty how cool is that),by those supposed to "help" the profession,bitterness sets in. Not only is it understandable..it should be a danger sign for those who are in charge of development. The player base is not happy..and when it comes down to it..they are the ones playing the game.

EDIT: No I don't believe RS sat and said " Let's screw over Image Designers(or anyone else" because that would take a concentrated effort which seems to be something this Dev team is short on. How many things have unfinished art a year into the game,how many bugs are still present after this long?To intentionally screw with a class the Devs would have to understand how it works..when have they ever demonstrated that knowledge?

Message Edited by DrkSensei on 06-18-2004 11:11 AM

Bothan Bounty Hunter ~ Starsider
Narak Al'Stari
C o g i t oE r g oS u m
Bothan Commando M Gorath

Just_Bri

Fri Jun 18, 2004 8:21 am

#12

Mawie wrote:

I'm an ID, too. Believe it or not, this is the second time I'm going for master image designer. Since rebeginning this profession, there are times when I want to throw my hands in the air and holler "screw it" at my computer... but I haven't. I love this profession THAT MUCH. Trust me, my poor guild mates are always hearing me complain about huddling in a dark, drab corner in an ID tent--but I haven't come onto these boards and accosted anyone because of MY decision to follow a profession path.

Our decision to follow the ID profession isn't what we are complaining about. The IDs of the day were complaining about the 2 hour masters, true. But the dev's fixed that at the expense of the fun. THAT is what we are complaining about. You just said it yourself, you are not having fun.

Do you honestly think that RS was sitting in his cubical pondering how to screw Image Designers over? Yeah, they screwed up... but I doubt that was their intention. Don't forget, for MONTHS IDers have been moaning and complaining about the people who master the profession in 2 hours, and there were SEVERAL IDers who ASKED outright for the ability to CONTROL STAT MIGRATIONS. And look, we got it. This community complained enough AND WE GOT WHAT WE WANTED.

The IDs asked for a faster way to do stat migrations. And by the way it was worded, we were NOT asking for the _only_ way to stat migrate, and an un-fun way at that. So no, we didn't get what we wanted.

It is just not how we wanted it though. Nothing is good enough, is it?

As you stated yourself, it is not how we wanted it. So we tried to get him to flex a bit to fall within our vision for our profession. So far, he has done nothing but go further the other way. We have asked, begged, pleaded, ranted, raved and compromised over and over and over. Effectivly to a brick wall. Is he listening? Kwee says he is, but he certinly hasn't shown it.

The answer is if you hate being an ID that much that you feel the need to whine and complain about it to the extent that a large number of people in this community have, try a new profession. That's what most people do when they get sick of their old one.

Yes, but he is also ignoring the Dancers, musicians and politicians. If I wanted combat, I wouldn't have signed up for SWG. I can get that anywhere for free. I signed up for SWG on the promise of a social play style. As for whining and complaining... it goes in cycles. Nothing works, so we change it up a bit every once in a while so it doesn't get boring.

____________________________________________________________

"V E E L A" S A I D - Retired Master Smuggler, cancelled 7/27/2005. SOE, think about every non-Jedi "cancelled" signature you've seen, and remember that there will be more as you forget the communities that makes this game's heart and soul. Entertainers, Crafters, Hybrids, Non-Jedi Combats, and Smugglers. When you are closing shop on SWG, remember that you ignored the REAL community to cater to an alpha class that assured this game would never be "balanced."

*Veela encourages you to adopt this sig

Plagvreugd

Fri Jun 18, 2004 8:39 am

#13

Mawie wrote:

Trust me, my poor guild mates are always hearing me complain about huddling in a dark, drab corner in an ID tent--but I haven't come onto these boards and accosted anyone because of MY decision to follow a profession path.

It would seem that you yourself have experienced the same frustration a lot of the other IDs have felt. Why is it that you feel that you have only yourself to blame. It's a game and as such supposed to be fun. Any profession is supposed to be fun. Some people may find this profession more fun and others maylike that profession better, but right now, it seems that no one is enjoying the grind to MID.This is not one player complaining, if it were so, you would be right in saying that he might need to look for a different profession, but it's - as far as I know - every playerthat dislikes the new grind, even you yourself.

Now, this has gone a bit off topic, and I apologize for that. I guess what I'm saying is that there's nothing wrong with players voicing their opinions, "accosting" people, on this forum. Some of thecomments that have been made here recently however are a bit offensive or spiteful, and that is something that we could change. Should change really.

Thewt of Infinity

Image Designer Archive

Thread: Quick note to the community