CUEmu - Thread Posts

Sir_Voor

Tue May 18, 2004 6:46 am

Removering the the timer does not fix the XP gain system, it would still take 4 times as long to do level IV box as it would a level I box. which does not happen in any other profession, in other profession the XP increases as you get news skills. I don't care what the devs say 8.1 was a rush job and very little thought was put into the XP gain system along with other parts of the publish. But its in and we need a completely thought out plan to fix it. NOT just crying remove the timers remove the timers remove the timers That is NOT the Answer!

There several way to undo the 100+ XP gain;

Remove The timer

Which encourages player to mindlessly grind instead playing, and does not fix the XP gain not increase as you gain levels.

Adjust the XP need per box

This wouldmake some players that have been work mastering ID instant 4-4-4-4

Adjust the XP gain so that it increases as you go up the trees

This is the right fix but is alsowould take themost devs time, but sense 8.1 was such a rush job we should get it to make up for it.

Message Edited by Sir_Voor on 05-18-2004 08:49 AM

[`M Sir VOOR N`\

Lunah

Tue May 18, 2004 7:00 am

#2

Removing the timer may not fix the gaining of XP, but it will make the route to master ID less annoying. Having a timer slapped in my face each time is becoming more and more a punishment. I am becoming a rather upset and agitated player while trying to get the Master ID title. All because of the timer. Its the waiting I hate, not the slow pace of xp. hell I rather have them double the xp to gain Master as long as they remove thetimer. I did not play the game to wait. I hate waiting for shuttles, I hate waiting for my factories, I hate waiting for my next woundheal, etc.

That's what forced interaction will do to people. They get annoyed, lose patience, get aggitated and who knows what happens.

The timer is my biggest issue with the latest publish, not the slow gain. The slow gain isn't trying my patience, the timer on every darn session is. enough already. It needs tweaked, fixed whatever, but something needs to be done and not just for the master ids who because of all the options they have, and because they no longer are depending on gaining xp, are imo the least affected by it.

I thought having a 15 sec delay with stopdance was bad. Wow how wrong I was. The devs are getting too good in screwing up every aspect of the game. Yay lets annoy our player base even more by adding MORE timers.

I had hope tho, when they decided to change the timers of shuttles, and in the future at starports as well, that they finaly started to realize that a player does not like to wait. But this quick fix blew that bit of hope right out of the sky.

---
"I don't mind flying, but what you're doing is suicide!"

__Lil'_Lunatic_____________________________________
Master Entertainer/X-wing Piloteer

__Alunah_______________________________________
Smuggler/SA Privateer

Ret. Lunah Tyck, Imp Lt Colonel, Lowca, Commando/Tie

Vicotnik

Tue May 18, 2004 7:01 am

#3

Excuse me, but what do the timers contribute at all?

Promoting playing instead of grinding? Not at all. There is only very little entertainment you as a player can get out of changing your eye color and stare at the timer slowly tick down. As a low (no) level Image Designer you have NO marketable skills, as in you cannot find any customers, as in you cannot "play" as the ID profession is intended. The only thing you CAN do is to "grind". Even if the xp gains were increased, it still would not be very fun as a new ID to gain skill boxes.

What encourages players to mindlessly grind (not counting hologrinders in this) is that there is NOTHING to do as an unskilled ID, the cool stuff is most likely only avaliable for more skilled Image Designers.

--------
Particle effects, BAD!!! Nice, realistic graphics, GOOD!!!

Diirt

Tue May 18, 2004 9:21 am

#4

Sir_Voor wrote:

Removering the the timer does not fix the XP gain system, it would still take 4 times as long to do level IV box as it would a level I box. which does not happen in any other profession, in other profession the XP increases as you get news skills. I don't care what the devs say 8.1 was a rush job and very little thought was put into the XP gain system along with other parts of the publish. But its in and we need a completely thought out plan to fix it. NOT just crying remove the timers remove the timers remove the timers That is NOT the Answer!

There several way to undo the 100+ XP gain;

Remove The timer

Which encourages player to mindlessly grind instead playing, and does not fix the XP gain not increase as you gain levels.

Adjust the XP need per box

This wouldmake some players that have been work mastering ID instant 4-4-4-4

Adjust the XP gain so that it increases as you go up the trees

This is the right fix but is alsowould take themost devs time, but sense 8.1 was such a rush job we should get it to make up for it.

Message Edited by Sir_Voor on 05-18-2004 08:49 AM

Thank you Sir_Voor. You summed up exactly how I feel and did so much better then i could have. At this point I've given up all hope of becoming a MID under the current system.

Vorpaks

Tue May 18, 2004 10:44 am

#5

/wookieehug Sir_Voor

Paks
Master Ranger/Master Creature Handler
-I support ATK play

Veldcath

Tue May 18, 2004 1:09 pm

#6

Voor isn't off his rocker, here, in my opinion. As a fighter type goes up in level, they take on more challenging creatures which net them more XP. As a crafter goes up in level, they craft bigger and better things which net them more XP. As a Scout/Ranger goes up in level, they make bigger and better camps, which result in more XP per the same amount of time sitting in them. Dancers and musicians get more XP for performing higher level routines.

As an ID goes up in level (now, post 8.1), their XP reward stays pretty much constant throughout the entire tree.

-V

HolyHell

Tue May 18, 2004 4:34 pm

#7

My whole reason for saying anything... is Hostility isnt the way to fix a problem... there are ALOT of very negative threads.. and Negativaty only breeds more Negativaty ... Not Resolution...

Personally and I would hope that most ID's that are ID's for the RolePlay would aggree.. Being able to master in two hours only put the profession as a whole down.. Ok.. Maybe the pengulum (sp?) swung to far to the other side... At least the devs see this as a problem as well.. So in whole we should be Positive.. Now we just need to present the solution to adjust the leveling to the appropriate time length...

I believe ALL professions are tooo Easy to Master ( ok .. not all but almost all..) But What would make the system better is not just requiring more time to master.. but more to do ....

Ral'phQuHurl MasterPolitician

I tell the truth all the time... Even when I lie

Lunah

Tue May 18, 2004 6:27 pm

#8

HolyHell wrote:

I believe ALL professions are tooo Easy to Master ( ok .. not all but almost all..) But What would make the system better is not just requiring more time to master.. but more to do ....

That's actually a really good point you raise here. Yes more to do, would be absolutely fantastic. Wow, if I could actually go out and use the entertainment terminals to get ID missions, for both xp and some cash. That would be amazing.

Or if we could brighten up the galaxy by IDing all those boring looking NPC's that are wandering about for some xp, I'd be out there supermodifying the universe!

Oh wow .... what a nice thought that is. I think I'll end with this and head to bed thinking all happy thoughts for the morning.

---
"I don't mind flying, but what you're doing is suicide!"

__Lil'_Lunatic_____________________________________
Master Entertainer/X-wing Piloteer

__Alunah_______________________________________
Smuggler/SA Privateer

Ret. Lunah Tyck, Imp Lt Colonel, Lowca, Commando/Tie

VooDooK

Tue May 18, 2004 10:05 pm

#9

Look you have to be a people's person and see how this game runs. See the type what kind of mentally the customers have.

What do customers seeking and ID want?

To be quite honest, as a Master ID on Bria, I never got anyone come up to me saying: "Can I have the pigtail hairstyle?" or "Can I have hairstyle #2 when you first make your character?"

Sure, we see lots and lots of people walking around with the hairstyles a new character can chose from. Do most of them still KEEP that hairstyle??? Some do, but most don't! They ask Image Designers, high level ones or masters, to change their hairstyles to something nicer!

Now, if we take those type of customers into consideration, that would mean that those type of people will NEVER help a Novice Image Designer gain XP! Why? Because those type of people will always go to a Master ID or high level one since they know a newbie ID won't have what they want.

Yes yes yes, there's gonna be some people who just want black hair. Or have their eyes turned blue. There's always people like that... but now let's look at this scenario. The person wants new black hair... but he's out of Holo-emotes and might want his stats migrated? Who's he going to go to? A novice ID? Someone with Image DEsign II in the Entertainer profession? No... he'll go see someone with a high ranked ID title or a Master Image Designer.

Now what's very funny is that we still see people GRINDING ID in the ID Tents. They are sitting there just clicking away, sitting at their chairs for hours and hours grinding on themselves for 50 to 150 xp a click. While those AFK-ID-Grinders are standing there not paying attention to the surroundings, the moment a Master Image Designer walks into the tent, they will be aware of anyone that walks in. They will be able to serve whoever the AFK-ID-Grinders do not see. They will steal all the customers a ID-Grinder could of served.

Look it's not hard to see, you can't be all nice and goody and roleplay a novice ID or Entertainer ID if you just don't have enough skill variety! A very small percentage need what a low-level ID can do, but the majority need what only a Master ID can do.

Let's face it... the timer is bad, the xp sucks. People are still grinding ID even if it takes 60 hours not being sociable or "acting" like an ID... they are still grinding. Except it just makes it harder, but it also makes the life of a Master ID more frustrating.

(o.O) --- Huh!? What happened?
(x.X) --- I'm dead
(^_^) --- LOL !!!

Reiella

Tue May 18, 2004 10:22 pm

#10

Specifically in reference to 'increase the xp gain per skill box'. More specifically I think that the experience gained should be scaled by the 'difficulty' of the task [ie, the newer skill box ability changes produce greater experience]. Sorta like how it was before the patch, well sorta kinda. The most 'efficent' xp gain was most often not the biggest xp producer [sans massive buffage], but it approached it alot more closely than now. And with the timer, we don't have the same mind costs to 'weigh' against each other, so the xp gains should really reflect the difficulty [and I'd contend the composite difficulty, but that's just me] of the changes.

Master Image Designer
Master Dancer
Teras Kasi Student (Brawler 4400)
Novice Fencer (Fencer 1010)
Third Asteroid on the Right

Just_Bri

Tue May 18, 2004 10:38 pm

#11

I would like to address this point:

"Now what's very funny is that we still see people GRINDING ID in the ID Tents. They are sitting there just clicking away, sitting at their chairs for hours and hours grinding on themselves for 50 to 150 xp a click. While those AFK-ID-Grinders are standing there not paying attention to the surroundings, the moment a Master Image Designer walks into the tent, they will be aware of anyone that walks in. They will be able to serve whoever the AFK-ID-Grinders do not see. They will steal all the customers a ID-Grinder could of served"

We are not AFK. We are right there clicking every minute or 2.5 minutes. Often we are playing music or something to fill the downtime between clicks. The problems that I am encountering is twofold:

I can choose to see what is going on around me OR I can choose to use my mouse. I can't have my cake and eat it too.

My advertising in spacial about what I can do as an ID is about the same as me standing outside of a supermarket trying to get people to shop at the Mom and Pop deli next door.

"I have uh, ham sandwhiches over here! And bologni!"

"Might I interest you in a bologni sandwhich? No, I can't put cheese on it, sorry."

"No, I don't have turkey."

"No, no pickles here."

"I am sorry, I don't have any chips to give you."

You see?

____________________________________________________________

"V E E L A" S A I D - Retired Master Smuggler, cancelled 7/27/2005. SOE, think about every non-Jedi "cancelled" signature you've seen, and remember that there will be more as you forget the communities that makes this game's heart and soul. Entertainers, Crafters, Hybrids, Non-Jedi Combats, and Smugglers. When you are closing shop on SWG, remember that you ignored the REAL community to cater to an alpha class that assured this game would never be "balanced."

*Veela encourages you to adopt this sig

Veldcath

Tue May 18, 2004 11:31 pm

#12

HolyHell wrote:

My whole reason for saying anything... is Hostility isnt the way to fix a problem... there are ALOT of very negative threads.. and Negativaty only breeds more Negativaty ... Not Resolution...

Getting negativity out of the way: The timer doesn't do anything but frustrate people. Forcing people to interact has already killed "hologrinding".

Now here... How about a suggestion. Something ALL professions could benefit from. There's constantly a call for new content. New things to make the game more interesting. Well, what if, to get your next profession level, you had to do some task or series of tasks for the trainer? Quests, as it were. Maybe one per level, three to get a four-rank skill and five to get your master rank?

This would certainly end hologrinding - You couldn't just sit next to the trainer the WHOLE time because the trainer would be requiring things of you with each level.

For ID, this could be, "Go to X, find a hairstyle they like". Musicians and Dancers already have quests - you could impose quests like this, or perhaps a new quest type - go to Y and perform until their mind is healed. For combat professions it's downright simple. Go kill a Z lair." It would even make sense for crafters. "Show me that you can make an ADL-5893 type weapon with a minimum damage of at least 60 before I grant you Firearms 3."

It would make the 'grinding' process a bit more interactive, a little less boring, and would force people to break their stride and go DO things, slowing down the 'grind' without seriously inconveniencing players with glacially-slow XP gain rates.

Of course, this does NOT fix the problem of low-level ID types not having any decent market. But then again, nobody wants to buy a CDEF pistol, either.

Anyhow, just a new, POSITIVE, SUGGESTIVE thought, rather than yet another "man, this bites."

-V

Sir_Voor

Wed May 19, 2004 12:14 am

#13

One other option to fix the XP gain issue and to encourage playing over grinding is to have the system keep a hidden log of the last 21 or so players you have ID, and give you an BIG XP bonus if you ID someone new.

*Addition* I would like to see the formula for the bonus be (1 times the ID's XP) or (1 times the ID's XP Plus 10 XPs per Box).

Examples for an 300XP ID;

(1 times the ID's XP) = total 600xps per ID - you would get 300xps plus 300xps bonus.

(1 times the ID's XP Plus 10 XPs per Box). with an 4-2-1-1 ID = total 680xps per ID that 300 + 300 = (10 * 8)

Message Edited by Sir_Voor on 05-18-2004 02:35 PM

[`M Sir VOOR N`\

Image Designer Archive

Thread: It's NOT the Timers that needs Fixing!!!!