Image Designer Archive
Thread: Alternatives to the timer; how can we improve
Like I outlined in this thread: http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=image_designer&message.id=18921
Whereas I don't have a problem with the timer itself, I don't have any idea why a novice/prerequisite profession should be so time consuming and difficult to stick with; not when others can be banged out within a timeframe of a day or two. This timer and the ridiculously unreasonable amount of time it demands will prove to benefit only two sorts of people:
- The present Image Designers, who will now be able to corner the market and create their own nifty little elite caste of people.
- People who have the time to invest 8-10 hours into a game and don't mind killing a few days.
Yes, I am pursuing Master Entertainer because my holocron told me to. And before I draw looks of disgust from the purists out there, I'll say this: I mastered Creature Handling for the heck of it. I mastered Teras Kasi solely by melee fighting, even the combat points. Yes it was difficult. I could have used grenades for easy combat experience but I chose not to. Do I think that future players should have this ability stripped of them? Absolutely not. Heck, my brother has a pre-nerf Rancor and can grind out any ranged skill he wants with relative ease. His loophole shouldn't be removed, either.
Regardless of whether or not people are disgusted with holo-grinders, the fact remains that we too are simply learning/seeking a profession - just like you did. You're only annoyed that holo-grinding killed the economy that you had the run of. Selfish? Sure, you're entitled to it. Proud? Again, you have the right to it. But this does not give you any special entitlements. But then again, what is the ratio of those who mastered it without the benefit of food, buffs and macros to those who did it in 30 minutes? I am apt to believe that you are the extreme minority here.
Now if they insist onkeeping the timers, thenI suggest that the timers should start out relatively low - increasing with degree of difficulty towards mastery. It just makes sense. If I grind on myself, then 50 points leading to 1000 then 5000 and so on is nasty looking math. Either that or up the experience gain significantly.
Yes, I can make an Entertainer and be 0/4/4/4 within 8 hours. That isn't much time, granted - but then again it is something that can be done at a constant clip; your experience depending on your flourishes and your audience. And I agree that profession mastery should be hard work, but not so much that it detracts from this wonderful game.
I really feel bad for those who want to learn the art for the sake of wanting to do it. Me?I just need to get master Entertainer. There's really no incentive to master ID unless you're holo-grinding. At least, none that I can see at this point.
I'm not sure I agree with you Kwee, if they can program the timer in the first place, then they certainly can program a bigger mind hit, particularly since it was already in place. Also, I've said in another thread that I think every profession has some degree of grinding. I think the desire to make ID a hard profession to attain from the ID's point of view was to bring more respect to the profession. I think this has not happened and has only cause more ridicule from those that we sought respect from in the first place.
So I can only gather that the timers (along with the loss of macros) is to stop hologrinders. I think it's odd that this profession would be singled out for this while what could be viewed as professions with similar issues (medics and docs) are allowed to continue as before. I think instead of the draconian measures they have in place, they should make the xp changes that you have noted before, institute a huge mind hit, and remove the timers. Just like with docs or medics, brandy only helps so much. We should be striving to be any more of a difficult profession that the medical ones, in my opinion.
I still think there are better alternatives though so I hope others will post. At this point, anything is better than what we have, IMHO.
Thanks,
Shmook
- Greatly increase experience needed to master the profession to increase the time taken. This appears to be a reasonable, scaleable approach though it punishes those people who do not power-grind morethan the grinders.
- Limit the experience that can be gained within a certain time span either through timers within the interface. This would provide guaranteed time constraints but introduces other serious problems for actual profession practioners.
- Limit the experience that can be gained by adding a "been image designed" state to a player character that lasts for some period of time to stop self/partner-grinding. At first glance this is appealing, though it may be difficult to code since nothing like this exists in the game currently.
- Limit the experience that can be gained by adding a "has done image design" state to the image designer in the same way that doctors have a "have recently healed" state to restrict the number of times they can heal/buff per minute. This is a reasonable, balancedapproach that provides guaranteed time constraints without being unduly burdensome on profession practitioners.Couldbe refined so that higher level image designers would have to wait less timeto Image Design again, similar to how it is handled for medics/doctors.
- Eliminate using macros for Image Design, forcing player to manually interact with the game. At the bare minimum this would add substantial time to grinders while having almost no impact on the true practioners of the profession. Could be included with any of the above even though dedicated grinders can circumvent using illegal external programs.
- Use some combination of 1-5.
The solution that SOE originally chose was to combine 2 and 5. The most burdensome choice possible for practioners and the most likely to force grinders to AFK and illegal use an external program to grind the profession.
The decision they should have made was simply to do number 4. No muss, no fuss. Add a "has done Image Design" state with a one minute duration (regardless of the players location, tent, middle of nowhere, who cares) so that the /image command cannot be used again until the timer expires. Issue a "you are ready to do Image Design again" system message to the player when the timer expires.
"To advance, pass this test: go find A and give them a hairstyle they like."
"Prove to me that you can Craft me a B with a C stat of D or higher."
"Find and kill X F's and I'll teach you Unarmed 3."
how about this as a solution... make image designers RESOURCE DEPENDENT... have the current timers as the base time for changes without makeover kits. the players can then make kits to reduce the amount of time it takes to do an image design (or maybe they have a choice to experiment on decreased timer ORincreased xp). This will cut down the amount of time it takes to get through the ID trees, but will require the player to actually use some amount of skill... and there will be less grumblingby customers, since the ID's will actually have an expense when doing a makeover...
i'm not an image designer, but i've played as one in the past. anyone thing this could work?
Kwee wrote:
Not that this will affect me asking for lowered timers, but as a side note I have seen some advantage of timers, with most customers willing to look at a few more options if they have some time left on the timer after we're done
This is assuming you HAVE other options to offer in the first place. Or that your customer doesn't say, "New eyebrows, too? Sure, what the heck?!...Say, those look neat 
...Oooh! Can you make 'em bright red? No? 
Never mind then, I'll wait in line for that Master ID."
You still have a fair number of options once you're a Novice ID though, including more hair colors, eye colors, etc. I wasa Novice ID for 2 months and Novice Tailor for 7. Not an ideal place to be but you still have a lot to offer
Tushai wrote:
Kwee wrote:
Not that this will affect me asking for lowered timers, but as a side note I have seen some advantage of timers, with most customers willing to look at a few more options if they have some time left on the timer after we're done
And another side note...
This is assuming you HAVE other options to offer in the first place. Or that your customer doesn't say, "New eyebrows, too? Sure, what the heck?!...Say, those look neat
I have already posted a number odf ideas in other threads for improving the profession, but I will type them again here.
The first being the subject of the clock. If the timer is here to stay, fine. But please don't force us to subject our customers to enforced viewing of a clock. If the clock was put into place to somehow "enable" an RP opportunity, I believe the Image designers can do just as well without it. If the timer must stay, put it as an "after the fact" thing like the crafters have.
The second point I have is the inability of many aspiring image designers to get customers. I can only go by personal experience, but I have yet to complete an ID session on anyone who was not specificly assisting me in practice sessions. I cannot believe that I am alone in this issue. It stands to reason and logic that because others have the same limited options that I do, they also cannot complete an ID session in non-practice conditions. The potential solution I had for this was to allow anyone who was IDing to ID at the same "level" as thier party leader. The existing UI could support this, all that would be required is some additional back end coding and a few pop-up text boxes. It could work like this:
Novice entertainer opens the ID UI - the server does a check and sees that the Entertainer is 3-3-2-3. Next the server checks and sees that the Entertainer is in party with a Novice ID paery leader, 1-2-1-1. The server unlocks all options at the Novice ID's level of ID -1-2-1-1.
The Entertainer changes the eye color of the client, an option easily allowable at the entertainers "level". Upon hitting commit ( which was pressable from the instant the ID opened the UI ) the sever sees that this was a change that did not require the ID's assistance. The Entertainer gets the notmal 300 experience and 100% of any fee that the customer was charged. Once commit is pressed, the server checks to see that commit was pressed in the tent ( or salon ). It seems it was, so the server starts a 2.5 minute timer, and locks out the /imagedesign command for that length of time.
2.5 minutes elapse,during which theEntertainerhas stepped out of the tent. S/he hasfinished buttering up the next client andopens the UI. The changes made are a different setting tothe hair style , and also a change tothe haircolor. But wait! S/he has chosen a har style and color that is on the Novice ID's pallette! Once the commit butten is pressed and the change accepted the ID gets a popup box that says "Soandso needs your help with an Image design session on Suchandsuch. The charge is 500 credits. Would you like to assist?" [Yes/No] The ID presses yes, and 15% of the charge is credited to the ID along with some Apprentice exp. The Entertainer gets 85% of the 500 credits and the normal amount of exp for whatever change was made. The sever checks and sees that the change was made outside the tent, and so starts a 5 minute lockout of the /imagedesign command.
Along comes another Novice entertainer, and asks to join the group. The ID accepts and promptly sees a popup box that says "Joethearmorwearingentertainer needs your help with an image design sessionon Joethearmorwearingentertainer. The charge is 0 credits. Would you like to assist?" [Yes/No] The ID promptly presses No and then nearly as promptly removes Joe from the party for trying to take advantange of the system.
I believe setting it up like that could solve many of the frustrations that aspiring IDs have along with preventing posible exploitation of the system. It would also not agitate the ID's customers, which is paramount in any service related occupation.