Image Designer Archive

Thread: Getting carried away with deleting/locking threads

Plagvreugd
Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:31 pm
#1

Littledoubt that you'll lock or delete this thread as well, but I feel you're getting a bit carried away with the locking c.q. deleting of threads.


First that one thread about the time it takes to grind was not abusive and actually quite constructive. I don't know if you have grinded a bit of ID lately, but let me tell you it's not the most fun I've ever had playing this game. It would seem you don't like to hear people complaining.


Someone else who wants a change in the Entertainer profession and who wanted to host a jam session in Theed to protest - actually sounded like fun - had their post removed and locked. But it would seem that you don't like to see people protest even less than to hear people complaining.


My question is... what's wrong with a bit of complaints? I believed that's the way the devs are trying to improve the game, by listening to player's concerns.


It's a bit cheap, so I won't make comparisons to historical regimes that have tried to put their feet down on discontent and protests, who have always failed. Ok, I just did. A bit childish really, but one wrong deed deserves another.


Come on, take our complaints like a man, don't hide behind your [lock] button.


Thewt of Infinity


p.s. If you're reading this, I'm still waiting for a CSR to get back to me on the serious bugs in my character.
Syzygy-Gorath
Tue Jun 15, 2004 5:01 pm
#2

5 stars for you…however, I'd like to make one clarification. If you're talking about the Challenge to Master IDs post in regard to the deleted one there were grounds. Perhaps not for the entire thread, but the end did certainly devolve. It is far easier to remove an entire thread than to sort out the offending posts…especially when you have literally dozens of forums to patrol.


I support GarVa's (at least, I think it was GarVa) actions in regard to that thread. However, I feel that Warryyr's entertainer protest post was unjustly targetted.


P.S. Yes, I posted in response to China saying that I believed the majority of her most recent post in the Challenge thread was a flame, and I used the "Report Abuse" button. I'm not ashamed to admit that I notify the mods when a personal attack is made, and I doubt I'm the only one that reported it.



œ Slone Varnillian œ Eicia Obai œ Panda-Sy œ
Most of the universe's problems can be solved by the application of a brick to the side of the right head.
The problem is if you don't have a big enough brick or can't find the right head. The devil is in the details.
œ Galena Varnillian œ Ammon œ Gwrtheyrn œ

ToppDog
Tue Jun 15, 2004 7:45 pm
#3

Well, throughout the forums I've seena fair shareof threads locked that were actually constructive. Could have been a policy mandated by the SOE suits, or could have been moderators having a bad day...who knows.


Here's the problem as I see it...Whether or not any post is "constructive" or not is totally dependant on what the devs do with it. Even the harshest of criticisms can be constructive if the devs use that information to better the game. But if they have absolutely no intention of considering the players voice in their decisions, then there is no such thing as a constructive post at all.
Danzen
Wed Jun 16, 2004 6:32 am
#4


Sadly ToppDog, you might just be correct....I saw that the devs call increasing xp on migrations a fix for the xp progression issue, (I think the timers have pictures of Runesabre playing golf with Satan or something, as devoted to them as they are...) and we all know their long term response to the smuggler problems, they might just be saying at publish 13 "we want it to be the right fix not a fast one...we are planning it now for publish 15, oh and we are monitering the ID xp progression as well, and with publish 15 we plan to reduce the migration timer from 10 minutes to 9 and a half."

Wish they at least gave image designers the broken promises they give smugglers heh
DarthVisible
Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:42 am
#5





P.S. Yes, I posted in response to China saying that I believed the majority of her most recent post in the Challenge thread was a flame, and I used the "Report Abuse" button. I'm not ashamed to admit that I notify the mods when a personal attack is made, and I doubt I'm the only one that reported it.







You reported Fuschia to I hope? I'm an armorsmith but I occassionally come to these boards because I was once an image designer. Mind you I do not post suggestions because I do not play the profession any longer, and it would be unfair to direct your profession in such a way. I read that post, and calling someone an elitist, like Fuschia did, is quite offensive tomost people in some countries of the world. Some countries fight elitism and it can be a sensative topic. Without knowing Lady China's country of origin, you may have reported her prematurely. I am sure like you, she is a human being with feelings, and as such, can get particularly sensitive to an insulting comment.


A flame is defined as any post which would insite a negative response. In all fairness by calling Lady China an elitist, said negative response was attained. So much so that you did not report her until that post. Think about it. Who really flamed who? As negative as I see Lady China's posts, she for the most part can be at least constructive. I don't know what made her go over the edge, but I can be certain that it was a very slow build up of resent to changes (or lack of changes) to her profession. As an armorsmith, I am one of many up in arms about the new changes being made to our profession. Am I at the point where China was? Probably. But I just keep off the forums because I am not that vocal a person. I mean look at my post count, lol. I only really make suggestions when no one else has made a suggestion, and I only post when I feel the need to clarify, like now.


Lady China has been around longer than most of you. She has been around since the beginning of beta 2, and contributed to alot in the way your profession has manifested.I was around since beta 1, and for the longest time, until China arrived (then Nouva), there were no image designers until Tygress at the beginning of beta 3. I feel bad for her, and the passive direction her profession has been taking. I cannot say I agree with her attitude as of late...but I understand...





Damon Mott
Protocol Droid to the ORCA
Owner of Bain'Xi Imports & The Outer Rim Forge
Galactic Millionare
Former Trazz Lizard
Wanderhome Server
Syzygy-Gorath
Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:59 am
#6

No, I didn't report Fuschia. Elitist is a term bandied about a lot on these forums, and barring cultural differences, its meaning is pretty clear. I had not reported China until that post because while her offers of tissues are insulting, they weren't flaming. That last post, however, was a series of personal attacks and unfounded accusations—that's worthy of reporting. Did I do the right thing? Maybe, maybe not. Did I go too far or not far enough? Again, that's a matter of opinion—I'm only human and I call 'em like I see 'em.



œ Slone Varnillian œ Eicia Obai œ Panda-Sy œ
Most of the universe's problems can be solved by the application of a brick to the side of the right head.
The problem is if you don't have a big enough brick or can't find the right head. The devil is in the details.
œ Galena Varnillian œ Ammon œ Gwrtheyrn œ

Just_Bri
Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:11 am
#7

1-staring is lame, thank you.



____________________________________________________________
"V E E L A" S A I D - Retired Master Smuggler, cancelled 7/27/2005. SOE, think about every non-Jedi "cancelled" signature you've seen, and remember that there will be more as you forget the communities that makes this game's heart and soul. Entertainers, Crafters, Hybrids, Non-Jedi Combats, and Smugglers. When you are closing shop on SWG, remember that you ignored the REAL community to cater to an alpha class that assured this game would never be "balanced."

*Veela encourages you to adopt this sig
DarthVisible
Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:41 am
#8




Elitist is a term bandied about a lot on these forums, and barring cultural differences, its meaning is pretty clear.




It still doesn't make it right. Calling someone an elitist Imperial scum on the GCW forums is one thing, telling a human being they are an elitist is another, is all I am saying. How you interpret it's meaning is also very different how I, or in this case, China would.My family moved to America to escape facism and elitism. The best part about this country is that we all have aright to express our opinions. I don't report anyone because I believe in the right to express opinion.If thier flames are racially or culturally offensive, or saturated in profanity, I private message said offender and work it out that way. We are all different, and we all have different forms of expression. I find it quite insulting that there are forum moderators with power to delete a post. Lock the post by all means, but to delete something as if it never happened, to me it seems unconstitutional, dare I say...the "e" word?


Both parties were out of line, but Fuschia was the strike that lit the match in my opinion. Did it warrent a report by you? I don't think so. I think you should have left that decesion for Fuschia. I was always told if I had nothing important or nice to say, don't say it at all. As you can see by my post count I am either a very angry person, or just one with nothing worth saying.


As for China's offerings of tissues, who does she offer them to? She offers them to people who need them. If you saw a friend who was crying, would you not offer them a tissue? Don't get me wrong I understand her context, but it's her way of telling someone to stop crying and do something about it. All I see on these boards is crying, complaining, whining, but no constructive posts about viable solutions, (with a the exception of a select few of you, including yourself, Syzygy). As I said before, Lady China has contributed more to this profession during beta 2-3, than most have you done all year. I would not take her negativity as reason for hate of this profession, but out of love. I speak with her every day on Wanderhome, and she really loves you guys. I got teary eyed in real life when she told me that her profession was all that she loved and it has come to the point that her anger (over alot of things, mainly hologrinders dictating her profession's path), is over taking her sense of rational.


I got the sense that Image Design was like a perfected masterpiece. She contributed and fought for changes to make your lives easier, including a no-timer on ID. Back in Beta 1 there was a timer between ID sessions as I recall. Blatent misuse (or creative use) of the system lead to the timers and fixes you have today. It's a shame when development only gives attention to a profession when they have problems, and not true undivided attention. Image Design is no exception. Plenty of professions do receive the attention they need. This was another one of Lady China's issues. It's as if her "masterpiece" were being vandalized and can do nothing to stop it. As I said before her actions were unwarrented... but I understand.





Damon Mott
Protocol Droid to the ORCA
Owner of Bain'Xi Imports & The Outer Rim Forge
Galactic Millionare
Former Trazz Lizard
Wanderhome Server
Syzygy-Gorath
Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:07 am
#9

As I said, it's a term whose meaning on these forums is pretty clear—and to be frank, it does sum up China's posts of late. Some of mine, too. *shrugs* I'm not trying to defend Fuschia, or decry China, or even defend my own actions. Just explaining why I felt the way I did and acted the way I did. As far as leaving the reporting to Fuschia, I believe that it is incumbent upon all of us to police ourselves and to attempt to make this forum a better place for us all. If that means clicking the report button, so be it. As to the mods and the relative constitutionality of it, this is a privately run forum, and is not subject to freedom of speech laws—those laws only dictate what the goverment may and may not quell. SOE, as a private organization, is not required to tolerate any form of speech on their forums that they don't want to. It would be nice if they explained their actions…but in the end it isn't required of them.



œ Slone Varnillian œ Eicia Obai œ Panda-Sy œ
Most of the universe's problems can be solved by the application of a brick to the side of the right head.
The problem is if you don't have a big enough brick or can't find the right head. The devil is in the details.
œ Galena Varnillian œ Ammon œ Gwrtheyrn œ

DarthVisible
Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:14 am
#10

I understand Syzygy. I just get upset when I see a great person like China lose it. I think the hologrinding has gotten the best of us all. I sure hope the next 2 jedi patches makes us all "civil" again.



Damon Mott
Protocol Droid to the ORCA
Owner of Bain'Xi Imports & The Outer Rim Forge
Galactic Millionare
Former Trazz Lizard
Wanderhome Server
FuschiaD
Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:45 am
#11

I did not call China elitist, BTW. I simply said that her views were edging on elitist in terms of the ID community, and that's not something I like to see, considering how small we are anyway. We can't afford division.

Also, I have been working nonstop since Monday and never got to see the post in question, so I thank Syzygy for reporting it for me. The content of the post in question was PM'ed to me by a friend, so I do know what it said. I would sincerely hope that my original post to China was not meant to be a flame in any way, nor was it intended to elicit a negative response. It was simply an observation and something that has seriously concerned me ever since the onset of this patch. I am aware that my posts can sometimes edge toward being harsh. I simply don't think that just because any of us have been here any longer than anyone else, that makes them better than the rest of us. And that's not directed toward ANYONE, sometimes I have to remind myself of the same thing. Everyone pays the same 15 bucks a month.




~*~ F U S C H I A D A R K W A L K E R ~*~
Yes, I'm a respec Jedi. Get over it.
~*~ A V A D I H A L O N A - S O E P ~*~
Entertainer For Life - COMPNOR Eye Candy

"You don't really rank around here unless you've been flamed by Oben, trolled by Mono, set straight by Geen, got caught in a love triangle between Cherry and Anoq, had your house decorated by Kipera, hugged by Esin, fondled by Fuschia, had IG respond with something inane and nonsensical, or at the very least been (a.) asked "can I have your stuff" or (b.) been accused of being a Todd by any number of random Tarquinian posters." --TalonKarrdeTN/Tyndaleon


DarthVisible
Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:00 am
#12

To tell you the truth Fuschia, it wasn't a post really worth reporting. In a nutshell she belived you called her an elitist and she called you a spoiled child. She also mentioned something about the only people that matter (in ID development) are people like you and the true image designers on this forum. She threw some punches about you having a lack of credibility being mostly a pistoleer over designer, which was unwarrented and I spoke to her about it on Wanderhome. She agreed and explained that it was difficult seeing her profession being dictated by a vocal majority that will drop the profession anyway.


Quite frankly, Fuschia, and the rest of you, she (China) is right. 15 bucks a month or not, a hologrinder should not dictate the course of your profession considering they will not be playing it after they become masters. We on the armorsmith boards surely don't let them dictate our profession's course. I think that is the point Lady China has been stressing and you all are admirally discounting her opinion at the risk of your profession being ruined by a system that has already ruined other professions and forced people to quit. While everyone's opinion is meant to be valued, in this game regarding the professions, the importance of opinion should clearly be dictated by those who will benefit the most from the outcome and not the vocal majority.


I read your posts Fuschia and you are a rational human being, and when no one is throwing hostilities, so is China. I wish I was still an image designer, then I would probably contribute more to this forum, but I am not. I was an ID since beta 3 and through September 2003. It was a fun time. But former ID or no, I do not believe I have the right to come on here and give suggestions, even if they are helpful, because frankly, I do not wish to be an ID anymore, and my opinions could possibly change the course of your profession in a direction you all may not want. It is just common courtesy and RESPECT for you all. I think that was Lady China's main concern. There were people not genuinely interested in being full-time ID's and dictating the course of yoru profession. Do you agree that is right? It happens in company HMO's all the time when a board of businessmen make decesions on your LIFE. Not doctors, businessmen...do you feel a businessman should determine whether or not a life-saving surgercal proceedure should be performed on you or not? I believe it's the same point Lady China was trying to make, but did it in anger and not rational thought.


I can't say I blame her, I would be POed to if a bunch of creature handlers or riflemen came on these forums and tried to dictate the course of a non-combat profession. We get it all the time now on the Armorsmith boards because the developers are lowering resists on composite. So what you have is these people (combat professions and hologrinders) buying second accounts claiming to be master armorsmiths and thier registration date is no more than a week old. They post nonsense about the grind being to hard, stats should be raised, etc. We recognize thier opinion but discount thier credibility. All I see here is you valuing opinions because they pay 15 bucks a month. Guess what? You do to, but does that give you the right to go on the ranger boards and dictate the course of a profession you DONT play?


For what it is worth Fuschia, I am sorry you did not read her post. If you looked beyond the hostility I seen you both throw at each other, you would have stopped and thought about the direction your profession is growing. In my opinion, I think Syzygy denied you the choice of acting upon China's post. Like I said, my family moved from a country where we had no choices. Freedom of choice is so taken for granted sometimes it makes me ill. When Syzygy admitted he reported China and not you, I was mortified. I did not understand. I am beginning to understand now, but kind of feel uncomfortable with the idea that I could say something to someone and have someone else dictate a course of action when it wasnt directed toward them. Moderators are a different story and they are paid employees to police a forum. Reporting harassment is your choice if you are being harassed. I just felt Syzygy had no right to report a post that was not directed at him.





Damon Mott
Protocol Droid to the ORCA
Owner of Bain'Xi Imports & The Outer Rim Forge
Galactic Millionare
Former Trazz Lizard
Wanderhome Server
NJ62
Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:09 am
#13

It is the privilege and responsibility of everyone on this board to report posts that violate forum policies, regardless of at whom the post is directed. The mods review all posts and make an independent decision about whether the post violates forum policies, so users cannot effectively censor each other. Mods also read the boards themselves, and will edit posts that violate policies, however they cannot catch all violations because they cannot read that many posts.



n'Jessi
former correspondent, former player

All your hawtpants are belong to me.
www.swgtailor.com
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