Image Designer Archive
Thread: Petition: Stop the ID Changes in Publish 9
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Kameckobe
Wed Jun 16, 2004 6:22 pm
#1
Come on guys, dont tell me your happy about the changes!
Master IDs should have no timers, anywhere. Except 5 mins on Stat Migrations.
At that point, the timer has served its purpose and is no longer needed to slow xp gain.
I am ESPECIALLY mad about this:
Image Designer tentshave had new special music composed for them. Thiswas delivered to me last Friday and should be in place sometime this week. There are three separate tracks, each specialized to fit the mood of the decor of each of the three tent themes.
__________________________________________________________
The MUSICIANS should get the "new music"
This is just a slap on the face.
You compose music for ID tents when 90% of all the IDs I've met at Coronet Salon want to join in me and Rhazz's band and play our own music!!!
UGH!
/sign
Danzen
Wed Jun 16, 2004 6:41 pm
#2
That aspect of the timer, and the music, are just a few of the gripes of the general ID profession.
I am confused though, in the title you ask them to stop the changes, you want them to NOT change what they have broken? which changes do you want, as you have professed your affinity for the timers as is.
If they do as you say and remove all timers from master ID, and leave timers as it for novice ID, the path to master will be all the more difficult for the non grinder, as one might think customers would rather go to a master for all their needs, and not wait for novice to meet their needs if it means a 2.5 or 5 minute wait, instead of no wait for a master. I still think 8.1 gimped novice ID to a degree, and I still think the changes they say are coming stand a decent chance to harm novice ID farther.
Reiella
Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:02 pm
#4
Unforunately, I'm unhappy about the timer in the reverse direction from you.
I feel that Master ID shouldn't have any timer benefit over non-Master, except possibly for the self-only [non-stat mig-redundant] level.
And have you heard the salon music? Calling it 'music' is a bit of a misnomer. It sounds alot like the environmental music from just roaming around, and not 'upbeat' [such as in Jabba's or such]. HMm yea it sounds Midi...
Musician Music is a very different handling [for one it needs instrument music for 9 different instruments and at least 4 flourishes [and musician music should typically be 'wave' style instead of midi].
Not to say that it doesn't sound nice, but it's really just 5 seconds of looping midi [if that]. And it's probably just some environmental music that didn't get used that they recycled for this...
I feel that Master ID shouldn't have any timer benefit over non-Master, except possibly for the self-only [non-stat mig-redundant] level.
And have you heard the salon music? Calling it 'music' is a bit of a misnomer. It sounds alot like the environmental music from just roaming around, and not 'upbeat' [such as in Jabba's or such]. HMm yea it sounds Midi...
Musician Music is a very different handling [for one it needs instrument music for 9 different instruments and at least 4 flourishes [and musician music should typically be 'wave' style instead of midi].
Not to say that it doesn't sound nice, but it's really just 5 seconds of looping midi [if that]. And it's probably just some environmental music that didn't get used that they recycled for this...
Just_Bri
Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:31 pm
#5
Kameckobe wrote:
Come on guys, dont tell me your happy about the changes!
Master IDs should have no timers, anywhere. Except 5 mins on Stat Migrations.
At that point, the timer has served its purpose and is no longer needed to slow xp gain.
I am ESPECIALLY mad about this:
Image Designer tentshave had new special music composed for them. Thiswas delivered to me last Friday and should be in place sometime this week. There are three separate tracks, each specialized to fit the mood of the decor of each of the three tent themes.
__________________________________________________________
The MUSICIANS should get the "new music"
This is just a slap on the face.
You compose music for ID tents when 90% of all the IDs I've met at Coronet Salon want to join in me and Rhazz's band and play our own music!!!
UGH!
/sign
Petitions are pointless on this forum because they have never listened to us.
Syzygy-Gorath
Thu Jun 17, 2004 4:56 am
#6
Timers are certainly an issue when it comes to keeping non-masters viable. Music…eh, I've had environmental music turned off for about 6 months now. But what really bugs me about Publish 9 is the increase in XP for stat migrations.
Looking at both sides of the issue: why did they choose stat migrations for increased XP? Because there aren't enough people doing them and they're trying to entice us. Okay. Fine. That's all well and good. The problem with that is that it further removes aesthetics from the primary focus of Image Design. With all liklihood we'll start to see IDs mastering who've done relatively few real makeovers—and that worries me.
XP needs to be weighted to reward those that perform larger, more sweeping changes to their clients. We need to reward learning our trade—not clicking the migration checkbox.
My $0.02…
Kameckobe
Thu Jun 17, 2004 5:47 am
#7
Well, I am a musician, and I am complaining....
Second, I will be doing SMs now, as I get 2,000xp for 10 mins rather than 1,200xp for 10 mins doing body changes...
This will lead to many IDers who dont know a THING about doing makeovers and such.
And if the music is really that bad, i am even more ticked.
Well, if its not musician quality, just yank it out together, musicians like to play (at least all the ones Ive seen) their own <gasp> MUSIC in the ID tent while they work on clients, wait for clients.
Electro
Thu Jun 17, 2004 8:19 am
#8
What you want changed about publish 9 doesn't bother me. At all. A little environmental music isn't a slap at musicians, not even close.
However, the change to Stat Migration xp, and only stat migration xp, is extremely worrisome. I fully expect that this will be the last change to the xp progression rate, and sends a very clear signal that "the way to be an ID is to click Migrate Statistics" every 10 minutes. For me the message it sends is that we exist to do stat migrations and we should just shut up and like it. I don't like it, I will never like it, but I'm nearly convinced that nothing anyone says or does is going to change the fact that thegame design teamare acting, largelyfrom lack of attention,in the worst interests of the social professions.
Just_Bri
Thu Jun 17, 2004 8:33 am
#9
Of course, RS thought ( and still thinks, I am sure ) that the way that he put in stat migrations was a good idea. Perhaps one day when he learns how to look around his ego at his customers we may get some real attention.
SWG-Runesabre wrote:
3/ Stat Migration Timer Both Image Designers and customers feel that the current timer for Stat Migration is torturously unbearably long (10 minutes). We are assuming that the long timer was put in place to limit how quickly stats can be migrated. We can however conceive of ways in which being able to migrate stats that often could lead to various game-play issues. A way to kill both birds with one stone would be to have the Stat Migration timer happen after the ID session, allowing the customer to be stat migrated only so often.
a) What is the reason behind the 10-minute timer? b) Is 10 minutes between stat migrations seen as enough time to avoid abuse? c) Could an enforced delay be put in place between initiating stat migration sessions on a player, regardless of which ID does it, removing the need for the ID to keep the UI active?
There were several design proposals on the table on how to handle Stat Migration. We knew we needed to limit how often Stats could be migrated because we didn't want people changing their stats instantly whenever and whereever they wanted. The question was how much limitation was needed. The most extreme proposal being considered at the time was allowing Stat Migration to happen only once a week for an individual player. We decided to settle for a 10min timer.
The timer occurs like it does now (wait 10 min before the stat migration changes activate) because the impetus of giving Image Designers stat migration was to provide Image Designers a game function that was not purely cosmetic. At the same time, I didn't want Image Designers to be treated like vending machines where players would stop by, pay their credits, get their stat migrations and then leave in the blink of an eye. The Image Designer is a social, face-to-face service provider style of profession and I wanted to preserve that environment going forward. Finally, while it wasn't a major rationale, I felt the residual gain with the 10 min timer is players will perhaps decide to check out other things that the Image Designer could do for them and hopefully stimulate more business and interaction for the Image Designers.
We've fixed a number of exploits and abuses with the stat migration timers and range. If you know of other exploits or abuses, please don't hesitate to let Kwee or myself know so I can have those issues evaluated and addressed.
Never once in any of his quotes in that thread I pulled this from did he state anything that gave the slightest indication that he had ever played an Image Designer on a live server. None of his quotes indicate that he knows what he is talking about at all.
sarcasm
Of course, he is "the boss" and that means he must obviously know what he is doing when it comes to a profession that he has never played.
/sarcasm
Reiella
Thu Jun 17, 2004 11:23 am
#10
Syzygy-Gorath wrote:Timers are certainly an issue when it comes to keeping non-masters viable. Music…eh, I've had environmental music turned off for about 6 months now. But what really bugs me about Publish 9 is the increase in XP for stat migrations.Looking at both sides of the issue: why did they choose stat migrations for increased XP? Because there aren't enough people doing them and they're trying to entice us. Okay. Fine. That's all well and good. The problem with that is that it further removes aesthetics from the primary focus of Image Design. With all liklihood we'll start to see IDs mastering who've done relatively few real makeovers—and that worries me.XP needs to be weighted to reward those that perform larger, more sweeping changes to their clients. We need to reward learning our trade—not clicking the migration checkbox.My $0.02…
I'm guessing they adjusted stat migration xp because it's reward was the most borked. It was the 'highest' time-scale change, and had mid-grade xp-rewards.
It's also a change that would have affected Image Designers, where the experience issue is largest right now. Personally I'm not sure about the other profs that much. Is 4.5 hours appropiate for the "Entertainer" skill line trek? Bleh I dunno, And the 1hr20m to get into ID? Not sure.
[Not directed at ya Sg
]And if you're bitter that unused or recycled environmental music is coming out. Well you have some basis, Musicians haven't gotten anything since their buffs were explained and boosted [and "recording droids" which is more a de benefit anyway]. But relax a bit. Environmental music doesn't infringe on Musician's ability at all, and it just keeps the Salon from being a deathly quiet locale like the Cantinas are without musicians...
Plagvreugd
Thu Jun 17, 2004 12:36 pm
#11
I can understand the music is stepping a bit on the toes of the Musicians, but if they don't complain, I'm not going to either.
Furthermore, I agree with the previous poster that having Master IDers have no timer puts Novice IDers ina spot where competition with Masters is almost impossible, for who would wait over two minutes if you can have it done instantaneously, and by someone who's probably better at it and who has more skills available.
One last thing, the use of Comic Sans Serif should be a capital crime, but maybe that's just my pet peeve.
Thewt
Areli
Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:04 pm
#12
You really aren't missing much with the music. If they'd put this kind of effort into designing a new musician song, we'd have one that made Rock look upbeat and exciting. It is actually a little nice having soft and unintrusive music in the Salon once in a while, but it's far from a fix.
Having done a teeny bit of ID before pub9 and the rest during, the only thing I can say is that these are almost all good changes, just not enough (i.e. MIDs shouldn't have any timers on ourselves anywhere, though maybe we should have the same timers as novices for non-self changes). The sole exception is stat migration. if they wanted to boost it they could have made it 1200, so it was the same exp:time ratio as an ID change. They could have made ID exp stackable... what a thought! Pub9 otherwise isn't borking our profession any further and in most ways is probably helping a bit, but it's clear RS hasn't much clue what we want, he's just blundering ahead blindly (I understand this is normal for him, but I've not been around long enough to know).
Reiella
Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:10 pm
#13
Areli wrote:You really aren't missing much with the music. If they'd put this kind of effort into designing a new musician song, we'd have one that made Rock look upbeat and exciting. It is actually a little nice having soft and unintrusive music in the Salon once in a while, but it's far from a fix.Having done a teeny bit of ID before pub9 and the rest during, the only thing I can say is that these are almost all good changes, just not enough (i.e. MIDs shouldn't have any timers on ourselves anywhere, though maybe we should have the same timers as novices for non-self changes). The sole exception is stat migration. if they wanted to boost it they could have made it 1200, so it was the same exp:time ratio as an ID change. They could have made ID exp stackable... what a thought! Pub9 otherwise isn't borking our profession any further and in most ways is probably helping a bit, but it's clear RS hasn't much clue what we want, he's just blundering ahead blindly (I understand this is normal for him, but I've not been around long enough to know).
Well, to be fair, making it so that ID xp stacked would be alot more than simply changing a single value. And it would require a great deal of "running the numbers" to determine an adequate setting. It's something that should have happened with the Mini-Publish honestly, and I wish I was active/playing in the testing phase then so offer that suggestion up. But "too late" is my own fault.
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