CUEmu - Thread Posts

Nouva

Fri May 21, 2004 2:42 pm

That means I can't do a fitting. I can't match someone's clothes. I can't even really walk around. Unless I want to go to the five minute timer, I can't even stay in my shop!

Look at it this way... would you want your plastic surgeon doing the above while he was operating on you?

Oh, and fix the entertainer profession....

The Illustrious Lady China 
Crimelord of Bestine, Leader of the ORCA
The Galaxy’s First Master Image Designer
Entertainer Extraordinaire 

Just_Bri

Fri May 21, 2004 3:09 pm

#54

"I hesitate to see how long it would actually take someone to complete merely one box of ID in Entertainer if they relied solely on real legitimate customers. LOL"

I honestly don't think it can be done. I truely hope someone can prove me wrong. No, I am not daring someone to do it, rather I am expressing an oppinion and a desire that someone relate a sucsess story. The profession and the forums can really use one right about now.

____________________________________________________________

"V E E L A" S A I D - Retired Master Smuggler, cancelled 7/27/2005. SOE, think about every non-Jedi "cancelled" signature you've seen, and remember that there will be more as you forget the communities that makes this game's heart and soul. Entertainers, Crafters, Hybrids, Non-Jedi Combats, and Smugglers. When you are closing shop on SWG, remember that you ignored the REAL community to cater to an alpha class that assured this game would never be "balanced."

*Veela encourages you to adopt this sig

Veldcath

Fri May 21, 2004 3:24 pm

#55

Nouva wrote:

That means I can't do a fitting. I can't match someone's clothes. I can't even really walk around. Unless I want to go to the five minute timer, I can't even stay in my shop!

Look at it this way... would you want your plastic surgeon doing the above while he was operating on you?

As has been said to me, repeatedly: This is a game. Not reality. We have people swinging swords made out of focused light (or plasma or whatever). We have martial artists taking down lizzards the size of small office buildings. And we have pistols with a maximum range of 64m and RIFLES with a maximum range of 64m. And soon we're going to have space-ships. Reality is NOT in effect here. It's best to not try to apply it.

For all we know, we have fancy little handheld units that flash and blink and make the changes for us like something out of The Jetsons. Luke got all healed up from nearly freezing to death by a robot and a tank of bubbly water. What's to say it has to take five minutes of staring at some screen. It's a GAME, not a SIMULATION.

-V

Veldcath

Fri May 21, 2004 3:26 pm

#56

Nouva wrote:

That means I can't do a fitting. I can't match someone's clothes. I can't even really walk around. Unless I want to go to the five minute timer, I can't even stay in my shop!

Look at it this way... would you want your plastic surgeon doing the above while he was operating on you?

Oh, and yes. Actually. I do. If I have a 'signature outfit', I want to make sure I look good with it.

-V

Veldcath

Fri May 21, 2004 3:43 pm

#57

Sundown6 wrote:

Drop a branch of MID. I dare ya. And regrind it back up. Tell me if it's anything like what veterans had.

You forgot to suggest that it should be done in a major-city tent and without help from her guild, friends or repeat customers. Only with the people who honestly come in looking for an ID... ANY ID.

-V

Nouva

Fri May 21, 2004 3:53 pm

#58

Oh really now. How about:

4.) The changes to ID in terms of color and interface improvements actually sound interesting?

5.)You're interested in gameplay that involves more than staring at a screen for 120 hours?

6.) You were playing a different profession and hey, wanted to give ID a try for a change of pace. Imagine that.

Hey kudos, now go and spend 120 hours mastering it. I had to do 240!

1) You're one of the content and smug few, and are perfectly happy price-gouging yourself. Having few others ever able to level to MID for some time sits perfectly right with you. Competition, who needs that?

I don't do stat mitigations because I do not support the new tents...And there is a price guide amongst the design council on my server, so there is no such thing as price gouging if we are all charging the same, right?

2) You're one of the folks who think that you're somehow entitled to what you've got, simply because you got there first. And this sense of entitlement doesn't motivate you to really consider what the current implementation plays like, or how bad it is. Because you've had it hard at some points, it makes you bitter to anyone who's had it easy... and by association,unsympathetic to anyone who now has it much, much harder. Because it's somehow their own damn fault.

You are right, I have no sympathy for you until they make it a 240 hour grind as compared to the 120 hours you get. Took me one month 8 hours a day. Half of that was doing missions to get money for training. How about some sympathy for us veterens, hmmm?

3) You take delight in watching others struggle to get to where you are, regardless of whether that struggle compares with your own. Often associated with point 2.

I do delight in that...I get even more delighted when you actually make master and earn your keep instead of macroing a profession in under a day...

Drop a branch of MID. I dare ya. And regrind it back up. Tell me if it's anything like what veterans had.

I did one better, come see me on Shadowfire... Comet Cryptwalker, Master Dancer, and since the patch a from entertainer to 2/2/2/2 ID. You want a Kleenex now?

Oh, and fix the entertainer profession....

The Illustrious Lady China 
Crimelord of Bestine, Leader of the ORCA
The Galaxy’s First Master Image Designer
Entertainer Extraordinaire 

Sundown6

Fri May 21, 2004 3:57 pm

#59

Nouva wrote:

A little over one month after launch to make master ID, close to 40 days. No spice, no food, no macros and no clientele willing to sit there for more than 2 minutes with you. No money either for training... If you didnt want to take up combat, you had to do delivery missions (at least 100 hours worth). You guys have it so easy. Now wipe your tears and blow your nose.

No clients willing to wait more than 2 minutes, huh? That equates to at least 3 or 4 ID sessions. More if you're quick. Under the current system... you get... one tohalf a client. Which nets you XP for one session, and 0 XP in the case of the latter. How does this simulate the old veteran grind again?

How about a new character with no credits and not knowing a soul, hrm? He's got it so bloody easy now, compared to the vets. Right.

What we have now is the same as the vets did on launch, especially with new characters. Except they've got a timer both client and designer needs to sit through. That is not "having it easy".

This sounds a little like some old fart piping up about "having to walk uphill, both ways, barefoot and in the snow." when they were young just to get to work, to the tune ofsomeone's complaining about being stuck in LA rush traffic for 2 hours a day. Nevermind old fogey only lived 15 minutes from the workplace.

Sundown6

Fri May 21, 2004 4:03 pm

#60

Vicotnik wrote:

Oh yes, I forgot somethingand since I can't edit, here it is:

... And I still haven't seen a good reason as to why the timer is so good for the profession, except the notion that the current ID's should suffer just because the IDs at release did.

That's not the argument, exactly.

The more precise argument for why the timer is good for the profession seems to be:

"The current ID's should suffer-- regardless of how much, or whether it's truly comparable to what the veterans had, even if it's worse by several magnitudes full, even if it places the time to mastery of ID far beyond any other profession, including ID at release, even if it bugs the customer to no end, and even if it's just decidedly unfun-- and just becausethe ID's at release did."

Nouva

Fri May 21, 2004 4:14 pm

#61

Sundown forget what your holo told you to do and just go grind something else... you will be much happier until the jedi trials come along.

Oh, and fix the entertainer profession....

The Illustrious Lady China 
Crimelord of Bestine, Leader of the ORCA
The Galaxy’s First Master Image Designer
Entertainer Extraordinaire 

Sundown6

Fri May 21, 2004 4:25 pm

#62

Nouva wrote:

Hey kudos, now go and spend 120 hours mastering it. I had to do 240!

240 hours worth of playing. Varied activity. Walking about, running about,delivery missions. Earning credits. Playing the game to support your profession.

Not 120 hours worth of staring blankly at a blue screen, MID's stealing most of your business, because you can't do as much AND you force your client towait longer than they would. NOT even counting the time needed spent earning the same credits if you're a new character, which you seem to make such a big issue of... which is still entirely necessary to anyone who's subscribed post patch.

I don't do stat mitigations because I do not support the new tents...And there is a price guide amongst the design council on my server, so there is no such thing as price gouging if we are all charging the same, right?

Or you're all gouging. =) Not that I'm claiming that. The prices are mostly reasonable, actually. 10K for a Stat Migration that involves both players staring at a static screen for 10 minutes is a fair deal. But then again, I don't think that time spent staring should be part of the gameplay in the first place.

You are right, I have no sympathy for you until they make it a 240 hour grind as compared to the 120 hours you get. Took me one month 8 hours a day. Half of that was doing missions to get money for training. How about some sympathy for us veterens, hmmm?

Sympathy goes both ways. Believe me, I have plenty for those who are willing to extend it themselves. Like Kwee. In fact, her argument against the timer is precisely because of her experiences near launch--

240 hours. The number again. Half of that "doing missions for credits" equates with activity. Playing. That is infinitely more endurable than inactivity, and asking the same of your customers. It's silly to compare playing the game to... well, being forced to not play the game. I'm not sure what the other half of your 240 hour grind was spent doing... because as far as I know, the timers didn't exist near launch.

If you really want to throw around numbers, then I'll indulge you. The current ID would have to do your same 240 hour grind... since spices and food no longer work, andID is no longer macroable...and since they'll have to make money the same way you have, if they chose your route of avoiding combat missions-- ON TOP another 50-120 hours of forced waiting.

How is this comparable again? Every hardship you can list, a current newbie ID would have to go through, on top of the excruciating wait of having to sit through the timers, and competing with all the already-done-masters.

3) I do delight in that...I get even more delighted when you actually make master and earn your keep instead of macroing a profession in under a day...

I'm not asking for the profession to be macroable under a day. That's just silly. I'm also asking that gameplay involve more than hours and hours of forced waiting. Also... silly.

I did one better, come see me on Shadowfire... Comet Cryptwalker, Master Dancer, and since the patch a from entertainer to 2/2/2/2 ID. You want a Kleenex now?

That's not a branch. If I'm not mistaken, the early tiers make up much less XP than the latter tiers, although I'm not clear on how the XP works out. I'll give you a hearty clap when you do hit MID again. But it still doesn't say anything about whether you're a good judge of good gameplay, for most folks anyway. *shrug*

But you know, you would really "do one better" if you created a brand new character on a server of folks you don't know. Not a single soul. And hit Master again. Odd no one's taken that challenge yet. *scratches head*

Veldcath

Fri May 21, 2004 4:31 pm

#63

Nouva wrote:

Hey kudos, now go and spend 120 hours mastering it. I had to do 240!

How on earth did it take you THAT long? I did it in two weekends and a few evenings. Without foods, buffs or spices.

You are right, I have no sympathy for you until they make it a 240 hour grind as compared to the 120 hours you get. Took me one month 8 hours a day. Half of that was doing missions to get money for training. How about some sympathy for us veterens, hmmm?

8 hours a day for a month. Do you have a job? Go to school? Have any commitments or life outside the game whatsoever? The only way to get 8 hours a day and come up with 240 hours in a month is to play EVERY DAY FOR EIGHT HOURS for 30 straight days. That's more than a full time employee puts in during the normal course of employment. 160 hours for four weeks. A normal month of work.

I work full time. I have maybe five hours to play after work before I have to go to sleep. I have weekends, half of which I often try to spend with friends outside the game. Even if I play ALL of Sunday, that's still only 15 hours, plus the max 25 hours I could possibly get during the work week is 40 hours. If I use all possible available time for playing and don't, you know, watch a movie or go out for dinner or something. That's 160 hours of maximum probable playtime in one month. 40 hours* 4 weeks. That is quite likely more realistic to the amount of commitment most people CAN put in to SWG. And a "Casual Gamer" would be even less. Maybe 10-20 hours a week.

The devs have stated that professions should be possible to master by casual gamers in one month. 40-80 hours. Which at your play-rate would be 5-10 solid days. Not 30.

3) You take delight in watching others struggle to get to where you are, regardless of whether that struggle compares with your own. Often associated with point 2.

I do delight in that...I get even more delighted when you actually make master and earn your keep instead of macroing a profession in under a day...

You'd best define 'earning your keep', as that is half your statement, here. I earn my keep - I ID for my guild and my friends. And sure, I macroed it in under a day. The SECOND time. And I go out and do combat stuff to pay my bills because I won't be making a living doing ID work, even at disgustingly-inflated prices. After an hour of sitting in a tent I saw NO customers. It's not something want to repeat, thanks very much.

I did one better, come see me on Shadowfire... Comet Cryptwalker, Master Dancer, and since the patch a from entertainer to 2/2/2/2 ID. You want a Kleenex now?

Eight full days since patch at apparently eight hours a day. 64 hours. Congratulations. You're just past one third the way. At your current rate, you should be at 4/4/4/4 after another 111 hours, a total of 175. Plus whatever time it takes to get the AP for mastery. Which is probably very small, what with all the hologrinders shouting out that they'll PAY you to let them train you. And just out of curiosity, how much of this 'grind' did you do with no customers? And how many customers that you didn't know beforehand? You know, finding people who actually want your services, not people who you already knew who're willing to sit there for a bit and click accept?

Anyhow, it's all stupidity. You're arguing making it take so long that NO CASUAL GAMER will ever master it - you want it so that only people who dedicate their lives to the game (or go primarily without sleep) can actuall master ID. Which goes against the developer's stated intention of casual gamers being able to master a profession with one month of play. (Does anyone have a direct quote on that? I know I've heard it before...)

Now, how about we lighten up a bit? You're sounding bitter and angry thatsomeone has had an easier time than your first go-roundand you've already tried to insult Voor and Kwee with your comments (I know you're smarter than that.... Wave your pom-poms at the Developers... You might be happy eating the scraps...), both of whom have been on this board at least for the last couple months I've been on here. Voor, someone who's come up with several ideas and options to pass up to the devs as possible ways to help the profession and Kwee who is an information broker, consolidating our ideas, complaints and whatnot and passing them up and the answer's back. She MAY have the power to 'bug the developers' with requests where we do not, but that is because it is her FUNCTION to pass information between us and them.

-V

Sundown6

Fri May 21, 2004 4:33 pm

#64

Nouva wrote:
Sundown forget what your holo told you to do and just go grind something else... you will be much happier until the jedi trials come along.

Silly. My holo says Bio-Engineer.It's my second.

I'm not enough of a grinder type to finish even that. Now, if I were the sort, I wouldhave just sat on my hands and waited for the trials, being more efficent and all, rather than say... posting in the Image Designer forum about what constitutes good gameplay for a profession that I could care less about longterm. Cause that would be... silly. And a waste of my grinding time.

Nice try. No cigar.

Numtini

Fri May 21, 2004 4:53 pm

#65

Hey kudos, now go and spend 120 hours mastering it. I had to do 240!

Rubbish.

While it was nothing like as easy asit got with all the food and buffs,it was hardly 120 hours, much less 240. Why don't you claim that it took you 500 or 10,000? Check my account date, I was there at server creation and did the first half of ID under the original rules: no buffs, no food, no nothing. Same time you're talking about.

It was easy. It was a few hours of clicking a night and very casual. It was grinding to be sure, but it was sure easier than tailoring. And it was far more involving than dropping to desktop to post here between IDs. Life under the timer is nothing near as easy as it was at release. I've done both.

This entire reply was written while I was waiting on a timer. If that doesn't say something, I don't know what does.

Karai Li-ig
Master Tailor & Droid Engineer
Dantooine Mining Outpost

Image Designer Archive

Thread: My 2 Cents on the wonderful id timer :)