Image Designer Archive
Thread: My 2 Cents on the wonderful id timer :)
GypsyRiver wrote:
Thank you! I'm glad someone finally made this post. I was too scared to! 90% of the posts after the patch have been complaining about the timer. I think people should stop whining, and most of the whiners are people who aren't Image Designers, did Image Design specifically for this patch, or waited 'til after the patch to pick it up. 5 stars to you!
Oh yeah. Them silly people who decided to play Image Designer post IMAGE DESIGN REVAMP patch as if that was some sort of crime. Them silly people who the devs tried to attract with new colors and new holoemotes and a new interface. Them silly people who want Image Designing to be a little bit more than 120 hours spent staring at a blue screen. Them silly people who don't want to stare at the screen as customers either. Them silly people who note that the current systemdoes not play well.
Them silly people who actually want remotely decent gameplay. What whiners.
Right.
Message Edited by Sundown6 on 05-20-2004 02:59 PM
By all means I ask you Master IDs to stand up and honestly say: This is just the way that I skilled my ID. I spent these 42 days talking hundreds of hours with all those roleplayers out there. I don't want to be rude, but this is bullxxxx. It is simply not true.
:stands up:
A little over one month after launch to make master ID, close to 40 days. No spice, no food, no macros and no clientele willing to sit there for more than 2 minutes with you. No money either for training... If you didnt want to take up combat, you had to do delivery missions (at least 100 hours worth). You guys have it so easy. Now wipe your tears and blow your nose.
Message Edited by Numtini on 05-21-2004 10:08 AM
Honestly, it's condescending attitudes like Nouva's that make not want to participate in any kind of discussion about the prorfession or, frankly, to be involved in the profession at all. I'm sorry, I don't like to attack anybody but I just simply don't believe you. If you had no money, no customers, no macros, and no buffs of any kind, then how did you do it? And in such short time? (starting to hear my grandfather's story about walking 5 miles to school, in the rain, up hill, both ways.... blah blah blah). I can only imagine that you cheated with the help of a second character and/or a third-party program to do your clicking for you (those have been available for a lot longer than SWG). Or at the least, you and a friend sat there ID'ing each other. Hate to tell you, but that's still grinding and that's not "playing the profession" you bitter old-timers (not all of you, sorry about that) keep preaching tous new-folks as how we should be playing (do as I say, not as I do?). So at the very least, the only equitable option is to give the new folks a fair chance to progress as you had. The situation as it is now is heavily stacked again the new folks. I'm sorry, but I have much greater respect for those who disagree with me but are polite and try to make a reasonable argument (even if I disagree with it) that flamers like Nouva.
One positive note, though... As I was begging for customers last night and camping in the tent, I was able to talk with some other new ID's and realize that they hate the system as much as I do. Didn't get much feedback from the Master in the tent, though, because they were too busy with clients but at least I found someone to commiserate with! And ya know, I didn't really have an opinion on the tents before, but after sitting in that paper bag for hours, I think I understand why so many people dislike it. At least we've gotten feedback that that will change... just wish we'd get some type of word about all the other things that are causing such an uproar.
Ugh, I simply *have* to stop reading these forums!
My thought:
The too-long timer is temporary and will remain only for so long as it is necessary to prevent too many more people from grinding out jedi. Of course, it won't impact those who knocked out ID early.
The money problem is still here, as newbie entertainers have to either take up combat or do delivery missions.. You can even argue that the money problem is even worse now, as the mission payouts are assmall as they were back then but there is more money in the system.
There is no money problem because there are master ID's like myself who teach for free. No training costs, some of us didnt have that luxury, YOU DO.
The no spice, no food, no macros and no clientele is exactly the same as it was back then. Spice and food, that's a no-issue as it is not needed in the new system. You cannot macro the new system at all, and you'll have no clientele.
The spice and food issue is moot, I will agree. However pre-patch anyone that wanted to master with such aids, could have. You missed the boat. And why did most of you miss it? I will tell you, it could be one or more of these reasons:
1.) You are a holo grinder and didn't want to master our profession first as it might hurt your pride and ego. So you mastered something "cooler and 1337!" Or you are a holo-grinder and got ID for your current holo. You think that's pain? Count yourself lucky you didn't already have one elite profession you enjoyed playing and were asked to master bounty hunter before thier fixes.
2.) You had no interest in becoming a MID until you heard you could "clean house" and price gouge for Stat-Mitigation. You began late in hopes of finishing it, and they whammied you with a ID timer.
3.) You were actually a born designer,and wanted to be one, but you lacked the sociability needed to excel in a MMORPG and soloed your way to whatever level in ID you are now. Or you are a new designer now, and cannot appreciate what the veterens went through, in which case, you should. Be thankful we masters who went through it are nice enough to teach you for free.
Can you please state one good reason to why you want the timer to remain other than:
"Image Designers are an elite club, and you're not a true Image Designer unless you are a veteran or spend 120+ hours getting there"
We never said you weren't a true ID unless you spend 120+ hours getting there, those that havent are 1.) hologrinders 2.) flavor of the month price-gougers 3.) Selfish novice's who are arrogant enough to think our way to mastery was easy.
Those who ground out ID in under a week are not true masters either. Like in crafting, any fool can click a button, only a true master explores her art and finds ways to make it better. You think its easy to change the face of someone and put it back? You new designers have it so easy with the "revert." button. We veterens had to remember exactly how someone looked if teh client accepted and then "changed thier minds." At least with a timer you can look, observe, and remember your clients features if they click accept. With a timer you can study your client more indepth and provide better suggestions which may bring you bigger tips or even fame.
or:
"We suffered back then, so the new players should suffer."
And you are all entitled to a free ride, why? Can you blame any of us veterens that took one month or more to master? Why should you have it easier? You already do with masters to train you. Can you imagine your grind if you had to also run missions for money or take up combat if you didnt want to in order to pay for training? The timer is in place to simulate an older veteren's time mastering the profession. You all do not want a timer for one simple reason:
You want to macro... I can understand that. So here is a solution. Allow macros again, but only allow oneID sessionevery 2.5 minutes after a client hits accept, ig: Barbie and Ken want ID work done. The ID works on Barbie and Barbie hits accept when she is satisfied. The ID cannot work on Ken for 2.5 minutes. . .there, no more timer, but it is still simulated perfectly.
I have been trying to master entertainer to get another profession under my belt towards being Jedi. So I cruise thru Musician and Dancer and then hit a brick wall with re-vamped Image Design boxes. OMG this is the meaning of the word GRIND. Two nights of changing the hair/eye color for my other toon is INSANELY BORING.
I agree with you that being able to grind an elite profession in a matter of hours is silly in a MMORPG. But he devs went completely overboard. It should take as long as other elite professions that take that much skill points. I think everyone would be happy with that.
You really can't compare the game now with the game at launch, it's a completely different game. It took a couple of months to master an elite profession. Now it only takes a couple of days.
Stability Boy
Master Doctor/Entertainer/Gimped Jedi Grinder
Nouva wrote:
There is no money problem because there are master ID's like myself who teach for free. No training costs, some of us didnt have that luxury, YOU DO.
Err, no. Newbie entertainers will most likely NOT find master ID's to train them as easy and as quick as you do seem to think.
Nouva wrote:
The spice and food issue is moot, I will agree. However pre-patch anyone that wanted to master with such aids, could have. You missed the boat. And why did most of you miss it? I will tell you, it could be one or more of these reasons:
1.) You are a holo grinder and didn't want to master our profession first as it might hurt your pride and ego. So you mastered something "cooler and 1337!" Or you are a holo-grinder and got ID for your current holo. You think that's pain? Count yourself lucky you didn't already have one elite profession you enjoyed playing and were asked to master bounty hunter before thier fixes.
2.) You had no interest in becoming a MID until you heard you could "clean house" and price gouge for Stat-Mitigation. You began late in hopes of finishing it, and they whammied you with a ID timer.
3.) You were actually a born designer,and wanted to be one, but you lacked the sociability needed to excel in a MMORPG and soloed your way to whatever level in ID you are now. Or you are a new designer now, and cannot appreciate what the veterens went through, in which case, you should. Be thankful we masters who went through it are nice enough to teach you for free.
I'm sorry, but that is COMPLETE AND UTTER GARBAGE! Yes, you read that correctly. I'm arguing for the FUTURE Image Designers, NOT for myself. I HAVE the last box of Image Design I will ever need. I got half of the boxes prepatch, but decided to wait until the revamp since I dislike grinding. I actually though it would be improved to the better, boy was I wrong.
Again with the veterans-elite thinking, sheesh.
Nouva wrote:
We never said you weren't a true ID unless you spend 120+ hours getting there, those that havent are 1.) hologrinders 2.) flavor of the month price-gougers 3.) Selfish novice's who are arrogant enough to think our way to mastery was easy.
Those who ground out ID in under a week are not true masters either. Like in crafting, any fool can click a button, only a true master explores her art and finds ways to make it better. You think its easy to change the face of someone and put it back? You new designers have it so easy with the "revert." button. We veterens had to remember exactly how someone looked if teh client accepted and then "changed thier minds." At least with a timer you can look, observe, and remember your clients features if they click accept. With a timer you can study your client more indepth and provide better suggestions which may bring you bigger tips or even fame.
But then you ARE saying that if you do not spend 120+ hours to get there, you're not a true ID since you are either a hologrind, a "flavor of the month price-gouger" or a selfish novice.
Yes, the revert button is easy, but it is completely irrelevant for the whole timer issue. Besides, the veterans have it now to, so why are you even mentioning it? You can study your client more indepth with or without the timer, so that statement is also irrelevant.
Nouva wrote:
And you are all entitled to a free ride, why? Can you blame any of us veterens that took one month or more to master? Why should you have it easier? You already do with masters to train you. Can you imagine your grind if you had to also run missions for money or take up combat if you didnt want to in order to pay for training? The timer is in place to simulate an older veteren's time mastering the profession. You all do not want a timer for one simple reason:
You want to macro... I can understand that. So here is a solution. Allow macros again, but only allow oneID sessionevery 2.5 minutes after a client hits accept, ig: Barbie and Ken want ID work done. The ID works on Barbie and Barbie hits accept when she is satisfied. The ID cannot work on Ken for 2.5 minutes. . .there, no more timer, but it is still simulated perfectly.
Not a single person, save the remaning hologrinders perhaps, have mentioned that they want a free ride. What people want is to have FUN, not stare at a timer slowly count down.
Macros is not an issue here either, you cannot use them with the new interface, so it is irrelevant for the timer issue.
Nouva wrote:
...any fool can click a button, only a true master explores her art and finds ways to make it better. You think its easy to change the face of someone and put it back? You new designers have it so easy with the "revert." button. We veterens had to remember exactly how someone looked if teh client accepted and then "changed thier minds." At least with a timer you can look, observe, and remember your clients features if they click accept. With a timer you can study your client more indepth and provide better suggestions which may bring you bigger tips or even fame.
So lemme get this straight, you're a "true master" because you could put someone back the way they were before "revert?"
Any fool can click the "Print Scrn" key and take a screenshot. 
Hmmm...so "revert" is the one reason you could find to prove how new designers "have it so easy"...the phrase "grasping at straws" comes to mind...
Nouva wrote:
The spice and food issue is moot, I will agree. However pre-patch anyone that wanted to master with such aids, could have. You missed the boat. And why did most of you miss it? I will tell you, it could be one or more of these reasons:
1.) You are a holo grinder and didn't want to master our profession first as it might hurt your pride and ego. So you mastered something "cooler and 1337!" Or you are a holo-grinder and got ID for your current holo. You think that's pain? Count yourself lucky you didn't already have one elite profession you enjoyed playing and were asked to master bounty hunter before thier fixes.
I'm not a hologrinder, never was, and never will be. In the combined total of 6 months that I've been playing (at launch and again now), I have mastered a grand total of two professions, both of which I mastered for the sole reason being I actually wanted to master them because I thought they were fun.
2.) You had no interest in becoming a MID until you heard you could "clean house" and price gouge for Stat-Mitigation. You began late in hopes of finishing it, and they whammied you with a ID timer.
I'm actually not trying to get Master ID. I'm not even trying to get Novice ID. All I'm trying to do is go up four boxes in the entertainer skill tree so that I can become a Master ID and play "Ceremonial." So, I won't be able to do stat migrations, which means I won't be able to "clean house." I'm just painstakingly working my way up 4 measly boxes and it's taking an inordinate amount of time to do so. There is no way I will ever consider doing Master ID under this current system. It's arduous, boring. And, honestly, I don't have enough skill points to even get Novice ID. Like I said above, I only master or dabble in professions that I think I will enjoy. And, while I probably would enjoy Master ID, there's no way that I'm going to go through what is required in order to attain it. My motivations are not to make money, although making money on something you enjoy is certainly a perk and part of the equation. But, it's really more about having fun for me. Making 100K on a stat migration while making people hate me is not what I'm going for here.
3.) You were actually a born designer,and wanted to be one, but you lacked the sociability needed to excel in a MMORPG and soloed your way to whatever level in ID you are now. Or you are a new designer now, and cannot appreciate what the veterens went through, in which case, you should. Be thankful we masters who went through it are nice enough to teach you for free.
Iwasn't a born designer. Like I said, my goal is not to image design. It's to have the dancer and musician perks available at Master Entertainer. It's not that I don't think it would be fun. It's just that there are other things I consider to be more fun at this point and time. I certainly don't think I lack in sociability. As a master dancer and novice musician with a circle of both guilded and unguilded friends, and a member of an actual performance troupe, I suspect I play the "social" part of this game more than most.
As for not appreciating what the veteran's went through. Well, perhaps you got me on that one. I don't know exactly what an image designer from last july went through. But, I will say this. It took me 3 full months to master dancer. I played totally at the keyboard and I did it without any of the spices or buffs that we had now. I talked with customers, I had fun. I did it slow, and looking back it was all worth it. Do I care if a dancer achieves master now in 2 days? I do if they went afk overnight just to drop it the very next day. Yes, that bugs the crap out of me. But, does it bother me if a dancer who truly wants to be a dancer does so in a few days while at the keyboard, entertaining, not spamming and not providing buff services for free? Absolutely not. They don't know what I went through or what it was like back then without any of the aids and they don't know about how long it could take. But, I don't begrudge them that.
Besides, I certainly can pay any trainer that I need to pay in order to get a new skill box. I'm not rich, but I have enough money to certainly afford that. Besides, I remember, when at launch it was common to tip the person who trained you, not the other way around.
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, of course. But, please don't make untrue assumptions. You basically appear as if you're bitter that it took you a long time and want others to suffer in the same way that you suffered. And, you make assumptions about what type of person is complaining about the timer. I don't know what it was like before, that is true. I don't know what it was like when it was easy either because I never tried it then. I only decided to master entertainer last week. My choice, my decision. But, I cannot even believe how long it is taking me to go up one measly skill tree of Image Design compared to every single other set of 4 boxes in every single other profession that I've mastered or dabbled in. The timing is *way* out of whack here, and there's just no getting around it.
I hesitate to see how long it would actually take someone to complete merely one box of ID in Entertainer if they relied solely on real legitimate customers. LOL.
Message Edited by Drygo on 05-21-2004 02:12 PM