Image Designer Archive
Thread: Image Designer RIP-OFF
If ya don't like the price, don't pay it, you don't need to get into your twink gear as soon as possible. You can always just hunt normally, get some cred maybe look into getting some food or spices to edge you over.
Reiella wrote:
Just going to take some folks a while to reacclimate to Stat Migration being a service and privledge and not a right.
Bravoda wrote:
Okay,
From what I can gather, the ID community as a whole feels that it has been given something it didn't really ask for and as a result now feels forced to perform mind-bendingly hellish services that are officially Not Fun(tm), Therefore, IDs should be able to charge whatever they please, thankyou-very-much, for the pain of performing endless stat migrations on the masses, who, lets face it, are not the best conversationalists (no argument on that point). Overall, most IDs would rather spend their time doing real image designing, not shifting stats around.
Does that about sum it up?
No, that does not sum it up. What you and so many seem to miss is the notion of opportunity costs. S-G's post above illustrates it in detail but I guess you missed it so let me do the Reader's Digest version: we can make a certain amount of money per unit time; some of us refuse to charge less than that amount for the same time spent migrating your stats. Here's the parallel - I come to you and say "I'll pay you 5000 credits per hour to escort me while I service harvesters". You laugh in my face and tell me you can make 10 times that running missions. I go to whatever profession board you loiter in and whine about what you want to charge for being a bodyguard.
Now in hindsight, judging by what I am seeing in the forums, 8k appears to be a very decent price. But at the time I couldn’t see why I would have to pay so much for something I used to be able to get for free where the only cost to the ID is time. It would take me a good 45 mins to an hour to raise those kinds of funds, and 1 hour versus 10 minutes doesn’t sound like a good trade off to me. I should also point out that there were no other customers in the tent at the time. If there were, I expect the ID would have tossed me out on my ear and served a non-bargaining, non-talkative customer that I know all you IDs love.
In a nutshell, my point is this: Don’t blindly charge a fixed rate based on what the top players are earning. Remember the in-between players who are just getting by and be reasonable about it. I probably wouldn’t have gotten annoyed with the ID above if she hadn’t threatened to jump the price to 10k. She might have just been roleplaying, but it did annoy me. Remember, you are not the only ones frustrated with the stat migration nerf.
As I mentioned above, many of us charge based not on what the customer can earn but what we can earn. You know any armorsmiths that sell top notch composite to n00bs at n00b level prices because they have little money? You don't ask them to give up money because you're broke, don't ask me to do it either.
FuschiaD wrote:
Reiella wrote:
Just going to take some folks a while to reacclimate to Stat Migration being a service and privledge and not a right.
Reiella hit the nail on the head with this one. Players are too used to being able to migrate their own stats whenever they feel like it, and they're going to balk at paying pretty much ANYTHING for a while. We just have to push through. It doesn't appear that this is going to get changed by the devs anytime soon, so we all have to learn to live with this change for the foreseeable future.
I charge 20k for a stat migration. With this, ALL other services are free, should they want any ID changes as well. Stat migration is the only thing I charge for. 20k seems to be the average on my server. For those who can't afford it: talk to your ID. Ask them if they know a novice who needs the xp more than they might need the money. If you're truly in a bind and can't afford it, nearly any ID you'll find will work with you. If they won't... find a new (and more reasonable) ID. But it's not unheard of for jedi characters to come right out of the newbie bin and run around begging for anything they can get... just to see if people will give it to them. ID's are going to be subjected to this too.
I don't understand this concept that ID's should be willing to give away their services though. Imagine that you're just starting the game. You load into Theed, you only have the clothes on your back and the CDEF in your hand. Would you expect an artisan to give you a bike just because you're new? A droid engineer to give you a droid? A tailor to give you clothes? Hardly. These are all things that players are willing to save up for until they can afford it. The only reason people aren't willing to do this for ID's right now is because this is a new change.
…and because we don't use the almighty resource. You know, I'd almost rather we needed to craft than use the system as-is to level. It would give us a very easy way to tell stiffers to shut up—"That height change required 100 Titanium Aluminum and 50 Tolium Reactive Gas, pay up beeyotch!"—and let's face it, craft grinding is faster than ID is right now. (Hell, I'm working on Doctor on one of my TestCenter alts and I've gone from Novice Medic to 0-2-4-0 Doctor in under 36 hours total—actual grind time: closer to 8 hours…I know, I'm not doing it in the most efficient manner possible, but it's still faster than ID.)
Breestan wrote:
You know, let's not use the argument of "how much can you make in 10 minutes" ... that's moot.
With all due respect, that's the crucial factor for me. I don't care how much money the customer has; I don't care if what I do lasts forever or seconds; I don't care if I use resources when I perform my services.
Time is money both in the game and in RL to play the game. If someone isn't willing to compensate me at at a price that I think is fair they can kiss my shiny @ss.
I'll bet 90% of my ID work has been freebies for guild mates. The majority of my makeovers for strangers have been freebies just because I was in a good mood and warm fuzzies were payment enough.
But to sit in a tent dealing with @sshats? Cash on the barrelhead.
Yes... I am an Image Designer... and yes, I can migrate your stats... HOWEVER... it is not worth my time unless I am paid 10 k. The question is: is it worth 10 k to YOU to have it done? If not, forget about it. I am so tired of the (admittedly few) people who think 10 k is too much to pay for my time. About 90% of the people I have asking about stat migration think that I charge a fair price... but a few bad apples who think 3 k to 5 k is more than enough to pay to a Novice for 10 minutes of sheer boredom have rendered me less than willing to do any at all.
Also, Stat Migration is the ONLY service I do for which I have a set fee. Any other change I can do, I only ask that you pay me what you think it is worth. I had one guy pay me 50 k just for changing his eye color.
Now, I HAVE given away ONE free Stat Migration... to a newbie who had been kind enough to sit with me for a few hours allowing me to grind on him, thus allowing me to not have to switch between my two accounts to accept the changes. I considered this a fair exchange... my time for his. Perhaps you might try finding a Novice ID who has to grind on her- (or him-)self and offer to allow them to grind on you for a few hours in exchange for a stat migration. I would accept this offer, and I'm sure there are others out there who would as well. It would also give you more of an appreciation for what Image Designers have to go through to get anywhere these days. I challenge you to try this: go to an ID tent and offer to sit for a few hours and allow a Novice ID to grind on you in exchange for a stat migration.
Side note: Last night, I helped a Wookie make it from Novice Entertainer to Entertainer ID 2 so he could do eyes and work on himself. For this, he paid me 50 k and told me that anything I ever wanted that he could do for me was mine for the asking.
/e Feels the walls of the tent closing in around her and runs screaming into the night.
JuJutsu wrote:
Bravoda wrote:
Okay,
From what I can gather, the ID community as a whole feels that it has been given something it didn't really ask for and as a result now feels forced to perform mind-bendingly hellish services that are officially Not Fun(tm), Therefore, IDs should be able to charge whatever they please, thankyou-very-much, for the pain of performing endless stat migrations on the masses, who, lets face it, are not the best conversationalists (no argument on that point). Overall, most IDs would rather spend their time doing real image designing, not shifting stats around.
Does that about sum it up?
No, that does not sum it up. What you and so many seem to miss is the notion of opportunity costs. S-G's post above illustrates it in detail but I guess you missed it so let me do the Reader's Digest version: we can make a certain amount of money per unit time; some of us refuse to charge less than that amount for the same time spent migrating your stats. Here's the parallel - I come to you and say "I'll pay you 5000 credits per hour to escort me while I service harvesters". You laugh in my face and tell me you can make 10 times that running missions. I go to whatever profession board you loiter in and whine about what you want to charge for being a bodyguard.
I understand that opportunity costs. My argument is one player's opportunity costs are different from another's. For example, 10 minutes of my time as a beginner TKA might be 5k. 10 minutes of my time as a Master Pikeman might be 10k. Its all relative. What I am suggesting is that you don't assume everyone falls into the latter category and therefore can easily pay what you demand.
Why is this important? After all, a doctor, armoursmith, weaponsmith, droid engineer, tailor, or chef doesn't need to consider how muchan individual purchaser can pay, only what price they think they can sell a particular item at. Why is the stat migration service you provide any different from putting an item on the market for any of these professions, except that you don't require any resources?
I'll tell you why: stat migration is not an entirely new service. Players used to be able to migrate their own stats, albeit much slower and apparently less painfully. It's something that everyonetook for granted. Now only an ID can migrate stats for other players, and only in very spartan "salons" in select cities. This is an intended change designed to give IDs further functions in the game. However, it's also recipe for frustration on both sides of the ID UI.
Allow me to expand on your analogy of hiring bodyguards to service your harvestors. Let's say that, suddenly, for whatever reason, you cannotservice your harvestors unless you have an armed escort. If you don't have someone accompany you while you do your rounds, you *cannot*service your harvestors. You can place them, but unless someone who is at least a novice in a particular combat elite profession (lets say Carbineer), comes along with youfor 10 minutes, you can't actually operate them, which makes the harvestors effectively useless without an armed escort in tow.
However, there might be other means of getting around this, such as a very expensive droid that can operate your harvesters for you in limited fashion, but has a limited number of uses before it needs to be replaced.Ultimately, it's your choice. You don't need to use harvestors. You could just sample the resources you need yourself (with some notable exceptions, like wind energy), although I wouldn't recommend doing so with radioactives. But harvestors make your life a hell of a lot easier.
Now, with all that in mind,how would you feel when the bodyguards you ask to escort you for 10 minutes demand a price that would require you to runmissions for an hour, and thenthreaten to increase the price because you attempted to bargain them down?
Of course, you can charge whatever you want. Its completely upto you. What I am asking the ID community to consider, however, is that IDs need to be aware and sensitive of the fact that they have not been given an entirely new ability. Rather, an ability has been shifted from all players to IDs exclusively, who can perform it in a fraction of the time, for better or for worse, and there are some transitional problems on both sides. With that in mind, I am suggesting that the ID community consider not only themselves when they perform stat migration, but also their customers.
Sure, I don't have to get stat migration. I could just get buffed, either by meds, food or spice so I can wear the brand new suit of armour I spent weeks saving up for. But if I know that with a stat migration I can slip in and out of the armour whenever I want, which do you think I am going to choose?
Message Edited by Just_Bri on 06-02-2004 11:49 PM
Message Edited by Just_Bri on 06-02-2004 11:50 PM
Bravoda wrote:
I understand that opportunity costs. My argument is one player's opportunity costs are different from another's. For example, 10 minutes of my time as a beginner TKA might be 5k. 10 minutes of my time as a Master Pikeman might be 10k. Its all relative. What I am suggesting is that you don't assume everyone falls into the latter category and therefore can easily pay what you demand.
Message Edited by Syzygy-Gorath on 06-02-2004 11:50 PM
(i sell for about 1-4M a day ... split this evenly and u got 7-27k per 10min) Okay, I'll make this short.
We mostly didn't want this ability.
We mostly don't like doing it.
The Devs made a decision. It has impact on the economy, and we have 2 choices:
1) Players pay, ID's get fairly compensated for their time, Players are unfairly treated because they used to have this ability for free OR
2) Players don't pay, because it's not fair for them to have to pay, and ID's are forced into servitude to make up for the "unfairness" of the devs' design decision.
So ultimately someone suffers. Should it be the guy who has a full suit of composite and a full bank account? Or should it be the ID who has been eeking by on tips?
Can you honestly say that you have the right to dictate the price for ten minutes of my time on the basis that the devs did something unfair to you? Am I supposed to inconvenience myself without compensation because the system itself inconveniences you?
NJ62 wrote:
Okay, I'll make this short.
We mostly didn't want this ability.
We mostly don't like doing it.
The Devs made a decision. It has impact on the economy, and we have 2 choices:
1) Players pay, ID's get fairly compensated for their time, Players are unfairly treated because they used to have this ability for free OR
2) Players don't pay, because it's not fair for them to have to pay, and ID's are forced into servitude to make up for the "unfairness" of the devs' design decision.
So ultimately someone suffers. Should it be the guy who has a full suit of composite and a full bank account? Or should it be the ID who has been eeking by on tips?
Can you honestly say that you have the right to dictate the price for ten minutes of my time on the basis that the devs did something unfair to you? Am I supposed to inconvenience myself without compensation because the system itself inconveniences you?
Nope.
What she said.