CUEmu - Thread Posts

Reiella

Mon May 17, 2004 11:22 pm

Some follow up and miscellena points.

Cost of Opportunity really shouldn't be ignored [this past weekend, I managed 100k in a single day just from the xp grinding through the fencing line in Brawler.] After all, you don't expect crafters and such to only charge cost ['net' cost of producing the items, accounting for failures in process].

For Image Design, there's no benefit to going to Master over a Novice for the 'SAME' service/options. Hence, expectations/prices 'should' be the same throughout, however, the Cost of Opportunity for a Master is typically higher than the 'minimum'.

Trouble gets worse in that most people don't want changes done by anyone except a master [so that they can be assured that they get the most options], and this problem will get a bit worse imo with the MID timer changes this week.

It's not quite a free economy either, it's a virtual non-cyclic economy.

Master Image Designer
Master Dancer
Teras Kasi Student (Brawler 4400)
Novice Fencer (Fencer 1010)
Third Asteroid on the Right

Gavvot

Tue May 18, 2004 1:46 am

#28

Devvii wrote:
so here is an idea Gavot or whatever: don't ever get your stats changed. dont ever change the way you look. Oh, and the next time you go to your barber, don't pay him either and tell him HE DOESN"T DESRVE TO BE PAID EITHER...and then repeat that to your shrink. =)

Hum, lets make it clear :
I never paid my Barber the price of 2 houses for an haircut.

--
How to make a link in those forums
Look sir, droids. -4689 3336, Naboo, Theed

Gaar

Tue May 18, 2004 3:31 am

#29

Sorry about the double posting. It seems I thought the original poster was complaining about the whole ID has no resources idea. My appologies for the mis understanding...I have also appeared to have lost mt *EDIT REPLY* button hehe.

BTW is there an ID Union on the Eclipse Server? I think that is a great idea

MutantSquirrel

Tue May 18, 2004 4:13 am

#30

I used to be a chef for awhile. I spent maybe 30 minutes to an hour a day making factory runs and crafting and such for 2-3 days to whip out40 crates of Tatooine Sunburn which I sold for 40k apiece. When the chef revamp hit, I would spend the same amount of time per day for about a week to whip out 20 crates ofBE brandy that I sold for 100k apiece.

So let's just do the math, shall we?

40 crates TS at 40k per = 1.6 mil gross made. Now let's just say that I invested roughly 1/4 of this into resources so ...

Net made = 1.2 million credits.

1 hour a day for 3 days = 3 hours so ...400k credits made per hour

Divide this by 6 and you get 66.6k for every 10 minutes of work.

Now let's try with the BE brandy, shall we?

20 crates at 100k = 2 mil gross made.

Net made roughly = 1.5 million

1 hour times 1 week = 7 hours so ... 215k credits made per hour

Divide by 6 and you get 36k for every 10 minutes of work.

Now I just wanna make a couple disclaimers here:

1 - I harvested all my own resources, so there is no way it actually cost me 25% of my income for resources. So this automatically shoots both figures up a lot higher.

2 - I know alot of chefs that sold their BE brandy for 200k. So if you were going on averages, the 2nd figure would again shoot up higher.

Your typical stat migration takes 10 minutes of an ID's time. Granted they do not have to collect any resources, but that is still 10 minutes of their time that they just have to sit there unable to do much of anything else. Because of this, I see nothing wrong with an ID asking 20k for a stat migration or even 50k. As I said before, on my server, the ID's have joined together and all do stat migration for 40k. I thought this was kinda high at first myself until I crunched the above numbers. Now I think it is perfectly reasonable.

Now I AM comparing ID to a crafting profession. Some may think that's crazy, but after being both a chef and an ID, the two professions are quite similar. Except with ID you can't set up a vendor and thus make money when you're not even online.

Col. Mutant Squirrel
Don't mess with me or I'll BITE YOUR NUTS OFF!!!

Lunah

Tue May 18, 2004 4:38 am

#31

The mentioning that we receive xp keeps returning, but I think the xp is a moot point. Certainly for the time we spend to get a lousy 600 xp. Yes, 10 min doing nothing for 600 xp. As someone else already mentioned minor changes, taking 2.5 min, will give me 300 xp. 600 xp in 5 min, 1200 in 10.

So with a stat migration i actually lose 600 xp, because i can get 1200 doing simple modifications in the same amount of time. I really am not taking these stat migrations for the xp, that's for sure.

---
"I don't mind flying, but what you're doing is suicide!"

__Lil'_Lunatic_____________________________________
Master Entertainer/X-wing Piloteer

__Alunah_______________________________________
Smuggler/SA Privateer

Ret. Lunah Tyck, Imp Lt Colonel, Lowca, Commando/Tie

Devvii

Tue May 18, 2004 10:09 am

#32

Gavvot wrote:

Devvii wrote:
so here is an idea Gavot or whatever: don't ever get your stats changed. dont ever change the way you look. Oh, and the next time you go to your barber, don't pay him either and tell him HE DOESN"T DESRVE TO BE PAID EITHER...and then repeat that to your shrink. =)

Hum, lets make it clear :
I never paid my Barber the price of 2 houses for an haircut.

Puh-leeeze. You never paid your barberthe price of 2 houses for a haircut because our economy is no where near as inflated as swg. You seem to want to cry because a non-combat PLAYER-dependant broke-ass profession finally has the ability to make a tenth of what other profs make in an hour (specifically combat profs like commando and bh). you want id prices to be lower?...try having your fellow pvp'ers not run around with their millions shelling out for over priced crap. I am forever seeing at every major starport shouts of selling this for 1.4mill or pst on whatever for 500k per. Makes it real hard to feel bad about charging for ID when they just shelled out an assload on some trinket. on my server (shadowfire) i price small changes 1-3k, medium changes 4-7k, and total overhauls 8-12k with stat migration set at 15k. and that is CHEAP for what i hear other servers charging, but that is what our market will handle. translation...a bh after runninga couple ofmissions could get EVERYTHING done at my shop in about the same time as it took him to do said missions. the difference? he can go run more missions. I am left waiting for the next PLAYER who wants a session.

If you seriously feel you are being overcharged, don't pay. boycott all designers til the price is what you want it to be. My guess is you will wait a long time or abuse some hologrinder who will give it away til he dumps the profession for the next grind. Here is an idea: turn the id booths in to id termianls and do away with design altogether...make medbots that can buff since they can already heal and do away with docs...dump scout/ranger too since droids can now harvest and make/throw traps and camps were useless a looong time ago...and who in the game really NEEDS food so good bye chefs...oh oh oh oh wait wait wait..here is an even better idea... GO PLAY PLANETSIDE!!!

information wants to be free...

Veldcath

Tue May 18, 2004 10:13 am

#33

Gavvot wrote:

Devvii wrote:
so here is an idea Gavot or whatever: don't ever get your stats changed. dont ever change the way you look. Oh, and the next time you go to your barber, don't pay him either and tell him HE DOESN"T DESRVE TO BE PAID EITHER...and then repeat that to your shrink. =)

Hum, lets make it clear :
I never paid my Barber the price of 2 houses for an haircut.

And most IDers don't charge the price oftwo houses for a haircut. They DO charge the price of two houses for a stat migration. A permanent change to your character that is akin to getting a personal trainer, tutor and nutritionist all rolled into one. For ten minutes. Of their time. In which they can't be working with any other customers. Can't be hunting. Can't do anything more than TALK and move things around in their inventory. And maybe craft items that don't require crafting stations. If they're really talented at managing their on-screen windows.

This isn't an argument about the cost of resources, it's an argument about the cost of a person's time. It's comments like these that have made me toss my "Master Image Designer" title out the window and run around as a Novice Scout everywhere I go. I do my ID work for guild-mates and friends of theirs. Only. Otherwise, I hunt for my money. Why? Because people outside my guild piss and moan about prices. I do in-guild work for free. They can tip if they want. And you know what? They tip WELL. I got 20k last night for changing hair and facial hair color. Alone. And I didn't put ANY required price. I got a 10k tip for topping off someone's holo-emotes. But outside the guild, all I hear are complaints about how we have no costs so we shouldn't get paid.

So, no ID for you. Buhbye. Thanks for playing.

-V

Gavvot

Tue May 18, 2004 11:06 am

#34

Economy :
True we are not in a real economy.
We are in a sink economy.
Combat prof generate money inside the system, crafter take it out of the system with maintenance cost.
ID has no part in that economy, it doesn't generate money, and it doesn't make it disapear.
That should change.
Even musician and dancer have Food, skill tapes and tailor items to improve their performance and have droid modules to make it look better.

This isn't an argument about the cost of resources, it's an argument about the cost of a person's time.
That is what actually piss me the most.
ID was the only professions that was able to do things in less than a second.
Now they must spend time and say it's fair to charge more than the price of a swoop for something that doesn't require that much skill point to build, doesn't require 8K resources, and take about the same time to make...

I never said ID shouldn't get paid, you act like a dev, going from one extreem to the other.

And maybe craft items that don't require crafting stations.
Hint, hint, hint : Droids.

BTW, in the quote I was only responding to the real life barber argument, and if you wanna make it more complete, last time I saw a barber was maybe 4 years ago, so IRL, I do the haircut myself...

--
How to make a link in those forums
Look sir, droids. -4689 3336, Naboo, Theed

Devvii

Tue May 18, 2004 11:14 am

#35

and i never said you said we shouldn't get paid..so take that dev comment and shove it up yours.

we do a service. and we charge what is fair for our services. there are price gougers out there, but on average..at least on my server..there is a consistent fair pricing system in place (with the occasional weirdo doing it for free). if you don't like the fee..continue to cut your own hair.

information wants to be free...

Devvii

Tue May 18, 2004 11:16 am

#36

did i hear someone say flo-bee?

or was that suk-cut..i forget

information wants to be free...

Gavvot

Tue May 18, 2004 11:25 am

#37

Hint: Don't say you never said something when it's still on the same page.

Veldcath wrote:
all I hear are complaints about how we have no costs so we shouldn't get paid.
So, no ID for you. Buhbye. Thanks for playing.
-V

Veldcath wrote:
if you don't like the fee..continue to cut your own hair.

Well, IRL I do, but IRL, I don't have limited skill points...

--
How to make a link in those forums
Look sir, droids. -4689 3336, Naboo, Theed

Devvii

Tue May 18, 2004 11:31 am

#38

hint: i didn't say that..V did..ner

And i imagine YOU DO have limited skill point irl...hehehe...ok..that was uncalled for.

I give up gavvot...you win...One credit design on shadowfire from now on with stat migration for free =) cuz i have no desire to anything or buy anything or have a house...i just wanna sit and do everything for one credit. HEY! that is a good idea..like the 99cent stores..we should all have a one cred store full of image designers and cdef weapons..it will be the bizzomb!!!

dag yo..fashizzle

information wants to be free...

Veldcath

Tue May 18, 2004 11:45 am

#39

Gavvot wrote:

Veldcath wrote:
if you don't like the fee..continue to cut your own hair.

While we're at it, THIS I didn't say. Devvii did.

I'm making generalities about people saying we shouldn't get paid because some people HAVE taken that point in the past AND because talking in extremes tends to get people to listen more, for good or ill.

For the record, I think 1k cr per minute would be fair enough. It would lead to a sustainable lifestyle. One of the reasons people are charging so much for doing this is because they don't WANT to do it. We IDs had this sprung upon us as a surprise and when we voiced our own concerns about it, we were largely ignored. Most of the people posting here as IDs wanted it to be a perk, not a requirement. But now IDs are stuck with doing it - there is no option - so they're charging for the inconvenience. Heck, I didn't even hear about it until two days prior to publish.

If you don't like the prices, you can haggle. Or find a better price elsewhere. Or grind to novice ID and do it yourself. Or you can help rant againstthe removal of slow personal migration as so many IDs have done themselves. It's a case of, if you don't like the prices, don't use the service. If you don't like paying $25 for a salon haircut, go to Great Clips for $10... or do it yourself for the cost of a pair of scisors.

Blaming the overpriced IDs for being overpriced when they've been (and continue to be) treated as second-class citizens isn't going to make any points. Working with them to come up with what you see as a better pricing structure would be a much better course of action.

-V

Image Designer Archive

Thread: Prices (i don usually complain but)