Image Designer Archive
Thread: Let's talk about: Image Design skill gain
Ah yes, I believe what is happening is people have their focus buffed up so much that they get a zero mind cost when changing hairstyle, and probably also some of the other easier-on-the-mind skills.
NJ62 wrote:
rather than the 6 mind that it cost when I was grinding (I seem to at least remember these changes taking some tiny bit of mind - does the no-mind bug only show up when using the text command?)
Kwee wrote:
Putting a cap on how often an ID change can go through is a thought that I've tinkered with often. I can think of two potential problems:Some players use makeup/hair macros in combination with clothing equipping macros to do an instant outfit change. Not really realistic, but a form of roleplay nevertheless. Many casual players do not make use of any type of buff and just do raw clicking on a friend or (even worse) themselves. A 15 second delay would make their torturous ID skill gain journey 5 times longer. n'Jessi's idea could certainly help, unfortunately many people have been using hairstyles, which use no mind.
n'Jessi wrote:
If you line up the boxes and click quickly, however, you'll get an error that says "you must wait.... before...." ARGH you say, and have to go through it again. So we slow down the macrogrinder, but we slow down the casual player more.
How does the no-mind hair bug fit into this equation? Are we assuming a system where this bug is fixed, or not? That will definitely have an impact on the proposed solution.
Is the ablility to do an instant outfit change really a feature? Or is it simply the result of a programming oversight (like Lekku wigs)? I suspect the latter. As I mentioned, a complete makeover would take only 7 minutes - a respectable feat IRL. In my opinion the only arguement towards keeping this specific ability is the "fun" factor. Although fun is important, isn't it worth sacrificing this benefit for more reasonable ID skill gain, not to mention realism?
"5 times longer" is quite an exagerration. It is true that raw clicking grinders will be able to do 1/5 as many changes, and I could see how that would seem to slow things down, but I still stand by my statement of "little or no effect". With a delay, they would simply have to use higher exp/higher mind changes. Doing this would make up for the loss of speed.
The biggest drawback atm (and the only one I can see) is that not all changes are equally efficient, so one would have to mix in some of the less efficient changes for optimal exp. They could, say, use a combination of hairstyle changes mixed with body changes and still get about the same exp/hour. Accounting for a 15 second delay, I was able to get 5xp/second using casual methods and with focus/willpower of 300/700. Remember: even now the limiting factor for all grinders is their mind pool, not the number of clicks.
As for clicking themselves, I was thinking about that also - casual players often won't ask anyone to help them. Self-ID's could probably be increased to 1/3 or 1/2 full exp and not affect power-grinders.
...are bugged, right? I think it best if we all go on the assumption that they will be "fixed" when the time comes, and avoid using them when forecasting balance changes.
Kwee wrote:
Please stick to specific focus/willpower suggestions in this thread, and of course that can include how upcoming HAM changes might affect our profession..
Hmm... Is this a reply to my post? If it isn't, then nevermind - I'm just getting overly defensive.
If it does, it sounds like you are saying it is off topic. The thing is, it's all connected.HAM buffs are not the cause of this problem. They only exaggerate the underlying problem, and that is that Image Designers can spam their skills. NO OTHER PROFESSION can do this. Even with max buffs, medics can't spam heals, entertainers can't spam flourishes, marksmen and brawlers can't spam specials, artisans can't spam crafting. Combatting focus/willpower is not where the solution lies, and focusing on that soley is missing the broader picture. The solution lies with bringing Image Design actions into line with other actions from other professions.
(Oh, and when you quoted "without the slightest effect on casual players" that was a little out of context - when I said that, I was referring specifically to exp/mind/rank rebalancing, not to delays at all
)
Some other options, looking back on it:
1) Clear the current target upon completion of a successfull image design. This would have no effect upon players grinding image design through the interface upon themselves; it would only adverse macros, as the macro has to have a specific target. Of course, it might be a tad annoying at first when working on others, but it would not take too long for image designers to get used to it.
2) Limit the number of image designs that can be performed upon a character in a single day. Easy to keep track of; takes one variable. Servers reset daily, so it can be wiped to 0 at server boot. A good limit would be 255; that is a single byte variable, and I cannot think of anyone in their right mind that would need to accept more changes than that, unless they are macro grinding.
3) Have the image design process bypass the focus check. It costs what it costs, and that cannot be reduced.
I don't understand what slowing down a macro will do. So you have to have a pause of 15 (or whatever) seconds in between each image design. So what? Has this made the profession any better or more respectable? You've made the grind to Master take longer, but you haven't added anything to make that grind worthwhile.
In my opinion the only arguement towards keeping this specific ability is the "fun" factor. Although fun is important, isn't it worth sacrificing this benefit for more reasonable ID skill gain, not to mention realism?
Syzygy-Gorath wrote:
In my opinion the only arguement towards keeping this specific ability is the "fun" factor. Although fun is important, isn't it worth sacrificing this benefit for more reasonable ID skill gain, not to mention realism?
Uhm…nope, sorry. I'm still in the #2 camp, even were I not there are some things that're okay to stretch reality with—I've yet to see someone with brain tails walk down the street IRL, and until I do realism in this game is pretty much right out the window.
Anyway, back on topic of the thread…since we're assuming some changes anyway (no-mind on hair fix, etc.) why don't we assume a total revamp? Abilities are moved around in the different boxes so their placement makes sense (like the new progression list that was suggested earlier) then require 4 types of XP. Entertainer would give IDXP, required for Entertainer ID 1 - 4, and Novice ID. For each of the tracks you'd need the apropriate type of XP—body, hair, markings, face. The problem with this is that it does require a complete restructure of the profession…but it would solve the "I mastered using only eyeshadow!" problem.
I'm still in group 2 as well. However, at least some of the basis for revamping ID has switched from a Rodney Dangerfield concern for 'respect' to bringing the profession more in line with other professions. This is a foundation that I definitely support; even at the cost of greater inconvenience to casual players.
1. Spamming changes. My ID can't spam flourishes when playing music, why should she be able to spam ID changes? My Doctor can't spam healing, why should my ID be able to do so?. I could support either a skill-based delay between actions such as experienced by medical professionals or a cap on experience per tick such as experienced by entertainers.
2. Tree-based experience as above. A number of other professions have multiple types of experience. Bringing ID into alignment is not unreasonable.
For each of the tracks you'd need the apropriate type of XP—body, hair, markings, face.
Good idea! We would have to consider, though, the following:
- Hair only gives 25 xp regardless of how advanced the style. Nightmare on the casual (clicking, not macroing) players.
- Some species do not have certain features. Not an issue with body and face. Very hard to skill up in markings tree when - off the top of my head - mon cal (?) are the only ones with markings at low levels. Searching out a mon cal (or whatever race it happens to be) to get you through the first box of markings may be difficult - especially since the galaxy seems to have a glut of humans. Also, hair line may be difficult (wookiees and mon-cal don't have it.)
With a revamp of the system, though - more abilities at a lower level - this may work.
Bwah - want edit!
Let me just add also, that miscategorized items would have to be fixed before implementing this change (i.e. twi'lek lekku pattern under hair, lekku marking color under markings, wookiee hair colors in different categories, etc).
I dont care how fast anyone masters it, they arent going to keep it if they are holohunting. Also, not being a master is worthless sinceno one wants you to "mess them up".
Its my opinion that we should look at ID for what it is.... fluff. Its fun fluff (thats why i mastered it) but not totally necessary. Not everyone will tie up the skillpoints to become a master image designer just so they can change their own hair color once a day. Lets face it, low level image designing is not fun, its not enjoyable and not many people will come to you for services.
I just dont see a fly by night image designer as being a threat to my business. I was trying to logout for 30 minutes last night and i still had people requesting image designs.
I dont know, i think it would be really hard for me to try to be serious and say "Image Designing should'nt be so easy to master...even though it wasnt that hard for me to master".
On buffs... every profession should be able to benefit from buffs. If Image Designers cant, then why should anyone else?
I was thinking the solution of making it so ID was not a profession the holocrons would tell a person to master (but perhaps possible as the hidden one) would help alleviate that problem.
Well... today I read my holiday holocron and it said Image Designer, so I'm going to go read up on some of the macro threads