Image Designer Archive
Thread: Image Designer RIP-OFF
Some of us suggested being able to do it faster in addition to the old system...not to havethe old systemcompletely taken away from the entire player base.
Mawie wrote:
Just_Bri wrote:
We didn't ask for it, and had no say in the fact that we got it or the method used to impliment it. We hare trying to get that changed, but the Developers are being silent about it.
I was a master ID several months back, and since I enjoy knowing what's going on in my profession, I would frequently come and read the boards. You are very much mistaken by saying wedidn't ask for the ability to stat migrate!A huge suggestion from plenty of IDs was to grant us this ability to give a "personal trainer" kind of feel to the profession, and to give a vital function to a profession that really only was for looks before the mini publish.
Ironically enough, the devs are listening to us...
Mawie wrote:
I was a master ID several months back, and since I enjoy knowing what's going on in my profession, I would frequently come and read the boards. You are very much mistaken by saying wedidn't ask for the ability to stat migrate!A huge suggestion from plenty of IDs was to grant us this ability to give a "personal trainer" kind of feel to the profession, and to give a vital function to a profession that really only was for looks before the mini publish.
Ironically enough, the devs are listening to us...
Gyopi wrote:
Mawie wrote:
I was a master ID several months back, and since I enjoy knowing what's going on in my profession, I would frequently come and read the boards. You are very much mistaken by saying wedidn't ask for the ability to stat migrate!A huge suggestion from plenty of IDs was to grant us this ability to give a "personal trainer" kind of feel to the profession, and to give a vital function to a profession that really only was for looks before the mini publish.
Ironically enough, the devs are listening to us...
You are only telling half of the story here. First, we were told by Runesabre that we needed to have (were going to get) a vital function, which is what prompted those discussions in the first place. Most of us were content just making people look good! As part of the discussions of a "vital function" it was suggested that we might be able to speed up stat migration. That part was pretty popular, but most people did *not* want us to be the only ones who could do stat migration.
Yeah. I knew when I was writing that that I was missing part of the story. My entire point was that they didn't just slap this on us unexpectedly one day out of no where, that some image designers had actually been asking to do this.
And, if you think about it, 10 minutes is faster than a few days. 
It just seems like a lifetime when you have to sit there waiting...
Bravoda wrote:
This is assuming that you are:
1) at least a master scout/novice ranger with a master combat elite profession
2) the meat is any good (resource shifts frequently)
3) you are on Dathomir (ie paid the shuttle fare)
So basically, unless you are at the top of your profession(s) and you are in the right place at the right time, the above quote is quite unrealistic.
These are true, but I also have a TKM character that I sometimes play when I don't feel like crafting or IDing. I can tell you that she *never*, no matter what planet she is on has a problemraising 15K in a few minutes. Even 20K is no problem.
This is the attitude that annoys me. IDs assume that everyone can afford to pay a cool 10-15k for stat migration. They point out that they have to sit around and do nothing for 10 minutes, so its their "precious time" (yes, that is a quote) that is paid for. To this I say:
a) Stat migration doesn't cost any resources, unlike any of the crafter professions, including Smuggler (Slicing requires resources, as does Spice)
Stat migration is incredibily boring. Who wants to waste time doing that for almost nothing? If we are forced to stand in front of long lines of people who want their stats migrated, then we should get *something* out of it. We want our houses and decorations and eventually ships too!
b) All crafters spend loads of time on surveying, harvesting, crafting and putting up their wares for sale, which easily takes at least 10 minutes per item, factories excluded
As someone who does a *lot* of crafting, the time and value of resources gets continually overvalued in these conversations. If you are spending hours a day getting resources then you are doing something wrong.
c) When a dancer/musician is buffing they can do nothing but dance/play for 10 minutes as well.They can only buff in a cantina. Do you see them charging 15k per buff across the board?
10K seems to be the going rate for entertainer buffs and at least entertainers can buff more than one person at once.
d) Another comparison is a doctor buff. This usually costs 10-12k. It enhances all stats except mind to over 2000 for over three hours on a high quality buff. To get such a high quality buff the doctor usually has to pay for extremely good quality resources, or harvest them him/herself. So that 10-12k has to cover the cost of the resources. This is not to mention the fact that the doctor has had to master the medic profession and then master doctor to get such good quality buffs...
Well, I know that it costs a lot less than 10K to make a set of buffs, so there is a lot of profit in doing buffs. This is why master doctor is such a popular profession. It makes a lot of money! I am not saying that buffs are overpriced, but there is no sense in pretending that doctors are not making much, and they make that money over and over again from the same people.
d) Stat migration used to be a FREE option, although it took a considerable period of time (a couple days). Stat migrationis an esential element of the game. This is no longer a free option available to characters. This hits beginning characters particularly hard.
This is true, but most of us will do free or very very cheap stat migration for newbies. So far it is not been the newbies that are complaining anyway.
My point is that thecost IDs are charging for stat migration is not justified. This is especially the case for beginning characters who have to fork out 10-15k just to wear the shiny new suit of armour they just spent a week saving up for. While I am all for IDs getting more abilities in the community, slow stat migration should still be available. If players want to migrate their stats faster, then they can go and see an ID and compensate the ID for their time (at 8k per minute or whatever ridiculous rate they care to charge).
I agree that the slow way should be available and I hope they give it back! Almost everyone wants the old way back, which is what we asked for in the first place! I am *not* going to sit in a tent all day giving 1000 credit stat migrations, though. It is incredibly boring and if you want *me* to spend my time in the game being bored to tears, then you will either pay good money for it, or I won't do it at all! Right now I don't do it at all.
The ID community effectively has a captive customer baseand they know this. They should not be abusing this new position.
It is not abuse. We never asked for this and expecting us to sit in tents all day giving nearly free stat migrations is abuse by the customers, not vice versa.
FuschiaD wrote:
Or, as my fellow GATers would put it... s.t.f.u, n00b.
15k is not that much. Did the person magically teleport to the tent? Did you contact them and ask them to travel? Were they sitting in the tent waiting for customers (do you find sitting in the tent along to be really stimulating gameplay?)?
I don't like the timer and I don't mind doing migrations for the less fortunate for less than 15,000, but honestly, it's not that much money.
JuJutsu wrote:
Apparently a n00b with no understanding of opportunity costs. Anyone [ID, Doctor, or anyone else] that wants to provide a service to others at a low cost or no cost can do so. I'm not going to both lose money and be bored for the sake of altruism. I'm not a nice person like Kwee, I'm a curmudgeon.
Yeah, I've never claimed to be a nice person. I like to think that I express the opinions that the nice people THINK and are too polite to actually say. 
Lol
FuschiaD wrote:
Yeah, I've never claimed to be a nice person. I like to think that I express the opinions that the nice people THINK and are too polite to actually say.
Message Edited by Syzygy-Gorath on 05-31-2004 09:14 PM
Okay,
From what I can gather, the ID community as a whole feels that it has been given something it didn't really ask for and as a result now feels forced to perform mind-bendingly hellish services that are officially Not Fun(tm), Therefore, IDs should be able to charge whatever they please, thankyou-very-much, for the pain of performing endless stat migrations on the masses, who, lets face it, are not the best conversationalists (no argument on that point). Overall, most IDs would rather spend their time doing real image designing, not shifting stats around.
Does that about sum it up?
First of all, you don’t have a monopoly on boring tasks. Have you tried sitting in camps for hours to grind wilderness XP? Or perhaps dancing in a cantina for hours to level up. Or perhaps crafting the same item over and over again just to get the XP. I am sure most of you have and would agree that these things rate fairly high on the boredometre.
Secondly, noone is forcing you to stat migrate. You are free to say, "That’s it! No more customers today!" as soon as someone walks into the tent. Just like everyone else. You are hardly held captive.
Thirdly, and I cannot stress this enough, stat migration is not possible without visiting an ID in a tent. So unlike buying a gun, a suit of armour, or a vehicle, which you can get anywhere or off anyone (bazaar, vendor, other players), players are forced to come to you if they want to migrate their stats. I believe that this is an essential part of the game and stating that you get to migrate your stats for free when you first start doesn’t really carry weight… unless you know the exact encumbrance for the suit of armour you will purchase in the future. I understand that the exclusive power to migrate stats was not wanted by the ID community at large, but now you have that power and with it comes responsibility.
Let me clarify my point by saying that I am not suggesting that IDs should perform stat migrations for free. Nor should they perform them for a considerable pittance (1k). But charging 10-15k across the board, regardless of who is paying, is excessive. To players that are at the top of their game, I agree that 15k is spare change. And there appears to be consensus that charging complete beginners 15k for a stat migration is unconscionable. But what about the players that are in-between?
Allow me to illustrate my point. My first encounter with ID stat migration happened a few days ago when I was playing a character who has yet to master anything. He had just bought a 72% Ubese armour helmet for 20k (which took a few days of saving up for), finally completing his suit of Ubese armour. He attempted to put on the helmet and lo and behold, he didn’t have enough Stamina/Constitution/Focus. So now he needs to get his stats migrated. He goes to the salon in Bestine on Tatooine. For the record, my character is dressed well but only has about 400 credits on him. He can make roughly 1.5k per destroy mission, so 8-10k is a lot for him. A conversation takes place with a Novice ID with words of the following effect:
Me: "How much do you charge for stat migration?"
ID: "8k."
Me: "8k!?! That’s a bit much."
ID: "That’s a good price. Most people charge 10k."
Me: "Do you use any resources?"
ID: "No."
Me: "Then why is it so much?"
ID: "Because it costs my precious time."
Me: "But I can no longer migrate my stats, so I have to get an ID to do it…"
ID: "Correct. How much money do you have on you?"
Me: "Right now, I have 400 credits, but I can get more."
ID: "What would be my fate if I accepted 400 credits for every stat migration? I would starve. I accept good quality resources though."
Me: "I don’t have any. Would you accept spice? (whispered)"
ID: "I will accept brandy."
Me: "Er… I don’t have any. I can get Thruster Head though."
ID: "No that makes me feel ill."
Me: "Well, yes…"
ID sharpens her nails
Me: "Look, I can run a few missions and get some credits. How does 4k sound?"
ID: "6k."
Me: "5k."
ID: "6k, and that is my final offer."
I ponder about that
ID checks herself in the mirror
ID: "Oh, all this bargaining has made me tired. I might charge you 10k now."
ID giggles
I roll my eyes at her
Me: "This is extortion. Forget it, I might go to Theed and see if I can get someone to do it for a decent price."
I leave
ID: "Good luck."
Now in hindsight, judging by what I am seeing in the forums, 8k appears to be a very decent price. But at the time I couldn’t see why I would have to pay so much for something I used to be able to get for free where the only cost to the ID is time. It would take me a good 45 mins to an hour to raise those kinds of funds, and 1 hour versus 10 minutes doesn’t sound like a good trade off to me. I should also point out that there were no other customers in the tent at the time. If there were, I expect the ID would have tossed me out on my ear and served a non-bargaining, non-talkative customer that I know all you IDs love.
In a nutshell, my point is this: Don’t blindly charge a fixed rate based on what the top players are earning. Remember the in-between players who are just getting by and be reasonable about it. I probably wouldn’t have gotten annoyed with the ID above if she hadn’t threatened to jump the price to 10k. She might have just been roleplaying, but it did annoy me. Remember, you are not the only ones frustrated with the stat migration nerf.