Image Designer Archive
Thread: I'm still here!
Xazias wrote:
My guess is that Rilawyn isnt even lurking here half as much as she posts lately, since she hasnt replied to this thread at all since she started it earlier.
I originally posted the thread a while back. It was just bumped back up yesterday. And here's my response.
Finally we get some discussion that has merit to it. While this wasn't my initial intention it is nice to see that we have more than lurkers here. I really don't see why folks are scared to post...the more points of view on this the better I say.
OK let's see here. First up, Rilawyn isn't my friend, can't even recall speaking with her. Defending her? Well I guess I was, because just as you were insulted by my post Moon I was insulted by the tone in yours. Thats neither here nor there though.
Moving on and trying to be constructive. We have nothing that can't be done in creation save for some hairstyles. This is wrong and a fundamental flaw with the ID profession that weakens us when it comes to attention from the Devs. If we could do more, such as the 'unusual' colours that has been promised, then maybe there'd be more help from the other players who are our customers. Kwee you brought up the Tailor fixes/additions, the Tailors had some major edges over us. Multiple outfits, unique things only they can do, ability to use Vendors, etc. In order for our Correspondent to wield similar clout we need more things only we can do.
The ID Correspondent should expect to spend 'more time on the back burner' as Moon put it...until we get more unique abilities. Wandered off track here, I have a nasty habit of doing that. 
What got me so fired up on this issue? Thats a very good question. I saw nothing but negative posts about what people didn't want and nothing of what they wanted from their Correspondent. Moon suggested Kwee for ID Correspondent and I'd agree that Kwee would be an excellent choice. My reasons, Kwee knows what she's talking about....simple as that.
The ID forum has been missing the fire that some professions seem to have. Could be that we're just too sociable and not the killers that some of the others are 
.
I prefer fire over venom any day of the week. Even flaming me is preferable to lurking and just using the stars. Let us hear your opinions, thoughts and ideas.
Put down the torches and pitchforks and tell the mob to go home.
A lot of people in the game, in every profession, are frustrated because they have come to the end of the content with no light at the end of the tunnel. I can understand a certain amount of frustration over the lack of communication and the lack of progress for IDs because we have been dealing with bugs that were supposed to have been fixed (that were fixed but rebroke) in Beta.
It's deplorable that Rilawyn hasn't had the time or the decency to at least tell us that there's been no news on the ID dev front. We should have stickies at the top of our forum right now that say How can I image design myself? and Why can't I be bald? and How do I find a master ID on my server? and How do I get ID XP? andWhat if an ID could eliminate my TEF?but we don't. It's similarly ridiculous that Kwee has to send private messages to the Art Design Team in order to get the developers' attention on profession-breaking bugs and ID wish lists -- that the IDs themselves have to do an end-run around our correspondent simply to be heard.
Step back a minute, though. The real tragedy is that the developers simply don't have time for us. They created a profession that had great potential and left it mostly broken so they could fix their badly designed combat systems first.
If you want, and if it is the will of the forum, we can kick out Rilawyn and replace her with someone who is dynamic, communicative, and forward-thinking instead of a sullen scribbler who wants the ID Correspondent title more than she wants the ID job itself. We can replace Rilawyn. As Altered points out, it probably won't result in immediate fixes. (Given how little we know about the developer timetable right now, we have no idea if any change we make will have any positive effect on changes already in the pipe. 50 credits says that if we replace our correspondent, she'll come back after the fixes and declare proudly see, I did that! and honestly, how would we know differently?)
I just don't want to see the forum fall apart in three weeks when our New Improved Correspondent can't get any fixes either. We're not high on the dev priorities, we all know that. Nobody expects a correspondent to make the difference between Broken and Fixed. Let's just keep calm and make a measured choice instead of a mob knee-jerk response, because how we fix this now will determine how we fix itin the future too. A large part of our response now is what our expectations are for the new correspondent in the future.
So hurling names won't fix anything. Passion is a good thing here, with passion we get energy for change, but let's make a move to change correspondents by setting down what we as a forum expect, what we demand, and what we are willing to abide by. Let us not be governed by the mob who simply want action of any kind.
I remember an old ID issue, for instance, that Rilawyn thought ID XP was too easily had, and she wanted it to be made much more difficult to achieve Mastery -- even though every ID on the board was against it. Is this why she wants to retain the title, so she can whisper into the devs' ears her own personal priorities for our profession? If so, Expectation Number One is that thecorrespondent fairly presents the popular(and/or recurring)ideas of the IDs in the business even if she disagrees with the idea herself.
Given our recent history of absenteeism, I would say that Expectation Number Two is that the correspondent reports regularly even if there is nothing to report.
Because our boards have become nothing more than a tired recycle of clients who demand attention and newbie IDs who need guidance, Expectation Number Three is that the correspondent maintain the ID forum and highlight important recurring discussions.
Because our discussions often result in a consensus, or a list of desires, or a compilation of bugs, Expectation Number Four is that the correspondent should maintain a current list of fixes and upgrades so they can be handily communicated to the developers.
I steadfastly insist that we do not include results or fixes in our expectations of the correspondent. And at the moment, we don't have much in the way of new content to discuss, so I am loath to require our correspondent to initiate new discussions until there's something much to talk about.
If we elect anothercorrespondent and sweep our present one out of office then I think we (as IDs) and the correspondent (as our representative) should understand what the job is all about. I think it's fair to say we didn't ask Rilawyn to be our correspondent so she could fight Rebels or enrich her PA on our time, but what do we want?
Escia
Fishwan! I've been hoping your voice of reason would pop up in here at some point. Great post.
I think you and Altared are both on the same page in a lot of respects. If I'm reading you right I think you're both looking to define what should be expected of our correspondent mixed with a little Chronically Frustrated ID'er Syndrome, brought on by the severe lack of attention received since beta.
I think you've already done a fine job of outlining what the expectations should be for a correspondent, Fishwan. I can only say that I agree, and then echo in my own words what I'd like to see here.
I think a correspondent, in addition to having a good working knowledge of the profession they represent,needs to wear a number of different hats. They need to be part secretary, part researcher, part diplomat, part cheerleader, and part bulldog, with good organizational, communication, and peopleskills.
They need to be someone who can gather and organize info on wishlists and buglists and present it to both forum members and dev's in a way that's easy to understand. They need to be diplomatic enough that they'll be able to remain unbias while they wade through, compile, and present ideas from voices who's desires sometimes conflict with one another. They hopefully would be unbeat enough that they can keep dialogue flowing in a profession forum like ours, where it's very easy to become discouraged. And they have to not be afraid to keep barking loud enough and long enough inside that correspondent forum to draw attention to Image Design. Even if it becomes frustrating and repetitive for both the correspondent and the forum members who occasionally will have to chant their wishes over and over again. No one said being a squeaky wheel was fun or exciting. 
I think that, in a nutshell, is what I'm wishing for in our correspondent.
And Alter, you did such an amazing job of initiating discussion 
I really can't add much more than what has already been said by everyone on this thread. All of the qualities of a correspondent that have been listed are what I would like to seefor our community. It is true that we shouldn't expect miraculous changes to happen fast, but at the bare minimum it is clear we all want our correspondent to report to us regularly. Other perks would be great too
I think that's exactly right, Xazias. I don't think it shows unrealistic expectations to want to have a correspondent put in place that we know has a pulse.
It's unfortunate, but even in professions that are a higher priority in a dev's mind than Image Design is, it takes some disheartening repetitiveness on the part ofplayers, voicing themselves over and over again and basically saying the same thing. I'm sure it's going to take that on the part of those of us interested in further promoting Image Design and on the part ofthe correspondent that'sgoing to bat for us.
I know someonesaid something to the effectthat we don't want to seethe same wish lists over and over again. Well, I don't believe that's entirely true.We might get sick of seeing those wish lists over and over again. And we might get tired of wishing over and over again. And our correspondent might gettired ofpresenting them over and over again. But I'm afraid it's going to take an amount of that to get anything done.
It's certainly always appeared to be the case with any other changes or additional game contentthat players pushed for in mogsI've been attached to. I doubt it will be any different here. The fact is we'llprobably get plenty sick of spinning our wheels here, no matter who we have for a correspondent. But we're going to have to keep pushingsome of the same buttons over and over again to get some of what we're hoping for here. And to do this effectively we need a correspondent who will be consistentlyand visibly active.
Well if you mean I annoy people until I provoke a response and get folks talking Kwee....then I guess we can call it initiating discussion.
Fish said it far better than I could and the expectations listed so far sound **edit** good to me.
Keep in mind however, weall need toparticipate in discussionsabout the ID profession. If you have an idea post it.It may be wonderful, it might be awful but, as you may have noticed, as otherspost their thoughtsthese ideas evolve and change. Yourpost might lead us all to a truly inspired and practical suggestion for the Devs to think about.
Don't be worried/scared to post. I have an acid tongue at times but I don't simply dismiss an idea without thinking about it and flame the poster as a response.
We are the ones that play this profession day in and day out. We are the ones that know what works and what doesn't. We are the ones that can help develop the Image Design profession into something special.
If/when we get this Correspondent problem sorted we'll need to give our Correspondent ammunition to take to the Devs.
Get your customers involved. I've had more than one ask about tattoos on arms for example, from now on I'll nudge them towards posting what they'd like/wish for on the ID forum.
I'm rambling again so I'll shut up now and apologise for my grammar and spelling....had a loooong day in work.
I should also apologise for any offence my previous posting may have caused. I was out of line at times, I just get a little annoyed to see so much energy being wasted in a negative way.
Alter - Master Image Designer - Starsider
Thank you. I appreciate the vote of confidence. Yes, I do think we owe it to ourselves to define our expectations for an ID correspondent. If we intend to lay our hands on the controls and seize power this time, we ought to label those controls carefully. Next time it will be easier to rise up and demand change and kick out a correspondent. And the easier it gets to rise up and kick out our representative, the harder it will be to find someone willing to represent us.
I would like to second the nomination of Kwee, because she has done such a good job already in maintaining our bug/wish lists (for Rilawyn to copy down on her notepad, evidently) and in keeping the ear of the art team in a small way. She has already fulfilled the obligations of correspondent with the sole exception of actually, um, corresponding with the devs and reporting the lack of progress.
Escia
Great ideas FishWan...
I've recently started an entertainer/image designer on TestCenter so have not always kept up with these forums, but right now it sure would be nice to have some stickies that I could refer to -- like on the various other entertainer profession forums.
Those that are new to the image design profession (or any new profession for that matter) should feel confident that they can go to the profession boards and find known (but new to them) information--searches are cumbersome at best.
As for my expectations concerning our correspondent, here's what is important to me personally:
- regular posts on this forum(not spam, mind you). Once a week minimum.
- Sticky topics on image design FAQs, stickies containing links to image design web sites if possible, stickies about the top 5 issues of our profession (as have been posted months ago already on other profession forums).
- keeping the community up-to-date about the ongoing communication or lack thereof with the devs. A simple reply to a thread containing good ideas stating "great input, thank you folks - I lead it on to the devs" goes a long way. Also, a feedback post stating "Sorry, no news yet for us" goes a long way.
- creating important threads and gathering *actively* opinions on important image design issues. I saw that currently, "state of the profession" threads are being collected, and have been posted already by CHs, medics, chefs, entertainers etc. Where's the image design post?
- being willing to resign when they know that they cannot fulfill these tasks to our satisfaction anymore, or at the very least, a post of a "vote of confidence", giving the regular posters the chance to vote for one of 2 - 3 possible correspondents - 1 of them being the current correspondent. This willingness to give up the job when they know they can't do it shows the dedication of a correspondent to their profession. Also, forwarding the result of the poll to the developers and asking to be replaced by the person who was chosen if necessary.
That is one of the things I am waiting on with the developers right now. The "State of the profession" thread for Image Design was submitted on the correspondant forums several days ago (original draft was submitted on October 30th).
But I have to wait for it to go through them, before it can be posted here.