Image Designer Archive
Thread: ID Enhancements...
Message Edited by Morwen on 05-07-2004 05:30 PM
Virgo664 wrote:
Well Bloodfin is extremely happy about Quicker Stat Migration. As a Master Image Designer on a server ruled by PvP action this is a godsend. Having trouble with a Doc? Run to the MID in Coronet and move that mind up. By new armor and need 112 more quickness? Zip over to Theed and in ten minutes your in your shiney new Comp Armor.
While they are at it hit up on some of the latest holo's and your set for the week.
Reality:
1. Go to id, raise quickness by 112.
2. Go out and play. Hmm, that didn't work quite right... took too much of stat x to raise quickness.
3. Go back to id. Raise stat x at the expense of stat y.
4. Go out and play. Hmmm, stat x is cool now, but I think I need about 20 more in stat z...
5. Go back to id...
Ad nauseum.
Discounts for repeat customers. lol
Morwen wrote:
Reality:
1. Go to id, raise quickness by 112.
2. Go out and play. Hmm, that didn't work quite right... took too much of stat x to raise quickness.
3. Go back to id. Raise stat x at the expense of stat y.
4. Go out and play. Hmmm, stat x is cool now, but I think I need about 20 more in stat z...
5. Go back to id...
Ad nauseum.
Darkagent101 wrote:
Great point. So if I understand correctly, players interested in stat migration will have to:
a) Find an Image Designer
((Not that hard. We have a forum that lists us and we'll mostly be in those tents.))
And what's the ratio of Image Designer to other players on a given server?
b) Be able to afford the service (can't wait to see what prices are going to look like when half a dozen people ona server realize they have a total monopoly on changing stats)
((Can't wait to see what people will be like when they realize that these same half-dozen have had a monopoly on changing appearances since they mastered (An oft-requested skill, more than you would think) and still don't jack prices all that unreasonable, Esp. considering any half-decent combat person can make 10k in one mission.))
Haven't we all heard similar justifications on Force Crystal pricing? Where's the guarantee stat-migration won't cost +100k per session?
c) Be nice, or get blacklisted
((It's not that unreasonable to ask that you be curteous and kind. If it kills you to be that way then **edit** are you doing playing a game based on interaction beetween living people?))
Though personally I agree, being polite shouldn't be an unreasonable request, there's room for abuse here on both sides of the equation. Let's not kid ourselves... for every dozen jerks in game, there's at least one self-absorbed diva.
The problem is you're placing a basic need (essential to every player) in the hands of a very small minority of players. Instituting yet another monopoly in this game = bad.
Next suggested stealth nerf: require a master merchant for player-to-player trades and/or use of the bazaar.
((Not a stealth-nerf. You know ahead of time. Plan accordingly.))
Fine, I'm not going to debate symantics. This however was set in stone in secrecy, by JustG's own admission. That's not cool.
Great work dev team! /end sarcasm
And as someone else pointed out, where's the inter-dependance of Image Designers on other professions? Oh that's right... customers. An image designer has ZERO expenses... other than skill points & paying a trainer to learn the profession.
((And paying for houses, and speeders, and shuttles, and we need to use mind-altering items often to allow us to do our job, and a million and one other things that all players deal with. Not to mention many of us will be forced to travel from our home planets to wherever a person is to change their stats.))
C'mon now, get serious. A master Droid Engineer can't produce many item-critical components without the assistance of a master Artisan... the same can be said for many, if not all, of the other professions: tailor & bioengineer, pistoleer & weaponsmith, doctor & scout, etc.. There is absolutely no profession inter-dependance for Image Designers (least none I've heard of yet).
Paying for houses? How is that relevant to migrating stats (or ANY part of image design)? Travel expenses? You said yourself you'll be spending most of your time in the tents. Mind-altering items are NOT a prerequisite - nice to have, but NOT anecessity.
Look, I'm not trying to argue that Image Designers should perform their services for free, but giving them a monopoly on such a game-critical function with zero-expenses is like handing over a blank check or the ability to print their own money. I'm all for giving image designers new content... REAL content. This ain't it.
The real irony is with a half decent macro, I can master image designer in less time than a typical stat migration.
((Not for long))
That's why image designers on the Test Center are already complaining that their macros no longer function? And yes, even if that isn't a bug and an intentional permanent change to the profession, as someone else posted... you'd better believe that power-gaming guilds are already fast at work in twinking ID alts. Wait and see what company you'll be keeping in those tents.
Some people are screaming that we are all going to get together and gouge prices before there is even a problem! Its still too early to tell what is going to happen. The fact is that most of us did not want to be the only providers of stat migration and we are not going to do it for free if we have to do it at all. Since it has been free up until this point, any price is going to be considered gouging.
I also do not understand the attitude that our services are not worth much because we don't have that many expenses. If we want things, we have to pay money for them and many of us make all of our money from image design. We put a lot of time, effort and passion into it what we do. Today I had someone balk at the fact that I wanted to charge 10K for an ID session where I changed several things on the person. He thought it was too much for such little things until I pointed out that since he was a TKA, that was *one* mission! Surely a master ID which knows what they are doing should be able to make as much as a non-master TKA. Its not an unreasonable amount. Remember that most of us became image designers to make people look good and for the social interactions, not to get rich.
Alot of dev time went into the secure transaction UI, where you and your customer can observe your work and agree on a price. (And be sure to get paid!). I think this, coupled with the ranges of changes (heh) that you will be able to make, will transform your profession dramatically for the better.
but we didn't get the new hair, piercings, 3d facial hair (even EQ Classic has 3d facial hair) that we asked for
The stat-changes are a big issue, and we did not announce them beforehand. We chose not to announce because we anticipated a large, initial backlash, but ultimately felt that it was the best thing for the game. Runesabre's vision of your profession includes one absolutely critical interdependence with all other professions. Most people do not do frequent changes. We don't think you will be overloaded with requests. And you will provide a very valuable service far faster than it could have been done before!
what a horrible idea. If they keep the slow way it will be tolerable, but to have the same person /tell me 15 times in an hour so he can get his stats "just right" is not only annoying it's downright intolerable.
I think the emotes will be fun in certain situations as well. (C'mon... a kitty!!) Tatoos and scars, as you are aware, fell outside of our tech budget for this round.
they should have saved the budget and rolled it over for the things we ASKED for then. These Emotes are not even remotely Star Warsy not to mention will be an even quicker fad than droid and vehicle colorings.
The dev process with regards to professions works like this: We ask what you would like, mix it with what we as dev's think is right and good for the game, adjust things to meet resource availability and schedules, monitor the boards for strong ideas, garner feedback on areas we are ambiguous about, and ultimately put out the best that we can.
what did we get that we asked for except for a few (how many?) new colors to our palettes? if the emotes are the "best" they can do i have to agree with the others and say "shelf it"
Itolia Rapo
Retired MBH, MID & Master Tailor
Ethos Guild of Caritas City, Dantooine, Bloodfin Galaxy
Gyopi wrote:
KaiaSowaPit wrote:
And as someone else pointed out, where's the inter-dependance of Image Designers on other professions? Oh that's right... customers. An image designer has ZERO expenses... other than skill points & paying a trainer to learn the profession.
The real irony is with a half decent macro, I can master image designer in less time than a typical stat migration.
Image designers use the most valuable resource in the game: their time. Everything else in the game is not real. Our play time *is* real however. When a good resource spawns, I can get as much of it as I need relatively quickly and inexpensively. It is very difficult for me to get more play time whenever I want, though.
P.S. You will no longer be able to macro-grind ID after the mini-publish. If you wish to master it before then and tie up all those skillpoints in order to migrate your stats yourself, please go ahead!
Thing is, many guilds will do exactly that. Ie, add an ID mule to the collection.
Sepen wrote:
Adding a quick-migration capability to ID's = GOOD IDEA
Taking away the existing slow-migration ability = BAD BAD IDEA
Elegant...and wholly accurate.
It's not about finding an ID, it's about, as someone said above, removing a feature from 31 professions in favor of 1.
To let ID's do it quicker is wonderful - now there is a useful function. Howver, to remove the gradual, several days personal method of it at the same time takes away a great deal from players.
I think someoone above put it best - this is the same as adding a requirement of Merchant to using the /trade command.
A couple of well-intentioned ID's have posted, saying to read the board "directory",but I have to assume that as non-combatants they aren't as fully versed in how stat migration works currently orthe reasons/criteria in-game that people use to change their stats. Honestly, it would be like havingto have a WS with me every time I switch from a Pistol to a Rifle. Tweaking your stats is a mini-game, and it takes an incredibly long time to work at this point. We are talking many hours/days depending on how extreme the changes are.
Again, as Sepen says, adding this feature is great - taking away the base feature at the same time is not.
Make me want to go to an ID...don't make me use one to micromanage my stats. I have the feeling ID's are going to be plenty busy for some time to come because of the other new changes, they don't need to be put in this unenviable position.
AO
Message Edited by AudioOrgana on 05-08-2004 10:55 AM
Great point. So if I understand correctly, players interested in stat migration will have to:
a) Find an Image Designer
((Not that hard. We have a forum that lists us and we'll mostly be in those tents.))
And what's the ratio of Image Designer to other players on a given server?
Its not as impossible as people seem to think it is. Our biggest dilemna in this sense is we have no advertising. That is why nobdy can find us. We have to sit out there adn yell for people to know we exist.
b) Be able to afford the service (can't wait to see what prices are going to look like when half a dozen people ona server realize they have a total monopoly on changing stats)
((Can't wait to see what people will be like when they realize that these same half-dozen have had a monopoly on changing appearances since they mastered (An oft-requested skill, more than you would think) and still don't jack prices all that unreasonable, Esp. considering any half-decent combat person can make 10k in one mission.))
Haven't we all heard similar justifications on Force Crystal pricing? Where's the guarantee stat-migration won't cost +100k per session?
Whats to stop all scouts from upping the prices of ALL resources tehy et by over 100k per unit? Nothing.. its called trust. SOme people will always charge insane amounts of money. Some won't. Shop around.
c) Be nice, or get blacklisted
((It's not that unreasonable to ask that you be curteous and kind. If it kills you to be that way then **edit** are you doing playing a game based on interaction beetween living people?))
Though personally I agree, being polite shouldn't be an unreasonable request, there's room for abuse here on both sides of the equation. Let's not kid ourselves... for every dozen jerks in game, there's at least one self-absorbed diva.
The problem is you're placing a basic need (essential to every player) in the hands of a very small minority of players. Instituting yet another monopoly in this game = bad.
Sta migrate isn't a basic need. Its a perk. Many games dont allow that kind of control to begin with. Politeness is something that every player should expect. The advantage IDs will have is that if people aren't polite we can jsut deny them (which every other profession has) nothing new here. The "need" is actually a perk. Though i do agree that IDs should not have sole control over it (yes that came from an ID many of us aren't happy with it).
Next suggested stealth nerf: require a master merchant for player-to-player trades and/or use of the bazaar.
((Not a stealth-nerf. You know ahead of time. Plan accordingly.))
Fine, I'm not going to debate symantics. This however was set in stone in secrecy, by JustG's own admission. That's not cool.
The communication problems have been hammered into the ground. We all felt upset but there is really no point in flogging a dead horse. They know how we feel about it.
Great work dev team! /end sarcasm
And as someone else pointed out, where's the inter-dependance of Image Designers on other professions? Oh that's right... customers. An image designer has ZERO expenses... other than skill points & paying a trainer to learn the profession.
((And paying for houses, and speeders, and shuttles, and we need to use mind-altering items often to allow us to do our job, and a million and one other things that all players deal with. Not to mention many of us will be forced to travel from our home planets to wherever a person is to change their stats.))
C'mon now, get serious. A master Droid Engineer can't produce many item-critical components without the assistance of a master Artisan... the same can be said for many, if not all, of the other professions: tailor & bioengineer, pistoleer & weaponsmith, doctor & scout, etc.. There is absolutely no profession inter-dependance for Image Designers (least none I've heard of yet).
Paying for houses? How is that relevant to migrating stats (or ANY part of image design)? Travel expenses? You said yourself you'll be spending most of your time in the tents. Mind-altering items are NOT a prerequisite - nice to have, but NOT anecessity.
Look, I'm not trying to argue that Image Designers should perform their services for free, but giving them a monopoly on such a game-critical function with zero-expenses is like handing over a blank check or the ability to print their own money. I'm all for giving image designers new content... REAL content. This ain't it.
Other professions have interdependance, but we NEED people to be ACTIVELY accepting everything we do. Merchant dont need to babysit theyre vendords. Docotors and medics can find AFK tumblers in many places. Dancers and musicians.. well we all know how many do afk (yes i have played as both but thats not the point of this thread). The reason we have house costs (not an issue i consider relavent either but since its been brought up) is because we try and make places where people can find us and enjoy teh scenery. Its for the client more than us. And yes i do know that msot people dont care about that but we do.
For once the community is going to have to trust that IDs will not abuse theyre power. If we do then find others. With the need the number of IDs will grow (slowly probably) but it will grow so there will be competition.
The real irony is with a half decent macro, I can master image designer in less time than a typical stat migration.
((Not for long))
That's why image designers on the Test Center are already complaining that their macros no longer function? And yes, even if that isn't a bug and an intentional permanent change to the profession, as someone else posted... you'd better believe that power-gaming guilds are already fast at work in twinking ID alts. Wait and see what company you'll be keeping in those tents.
Im glad that there wil be mroe ID's. Granted msot will noly do it for a quick buck but a few may discover what it is we love about our profession. Plz dont assume the worst of us.
Anein Arxoi Master ID on Gorath
Salon in Theed -5619 3355
Constuctive Post for JustG