Image Designer Archive
Thread: Image Design Timer???
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Erann
Tue Aug 03, 2004 1:25 pm
#1
I'd be a hapier camper if the Stat timer was alot less once you reached Master. Much like the Timers for other changes. Mabe cut it in half for MID? 5 mins?
I've done so many stats I nolonger get Exp! That shoudl count for a timer reward alone!
Mist_of_the_Starburst
Tue Aug 03, 2004 2:37 pm
#2
Sure its not fun, but look at the brightside. Its cheap. You spend no money or time to get resources to master this profession. The timers really arent that bad. The 10 minute timer is actually an improvement to the old 2day way. Think of it like this. It takes about 10 minutes to get a mission kill the spawns then the lair . Why should a Image mission go any faster for the money you get paid by your customer?
I think the balance is a good one since this is a no cost all profit profession wich I will remind you is seriously in demand. Also by putting in a difficult leveling factor you will find more dedicated Image designers and less grinders making a quick buck off their 1/2 hour mastered profession. Yes thats right half an hour is all it took before the devs finally put a leash on those grinding animals lol
TechnoCan
Tue Aug 03, 2004 2:42 pm
#3
The devs have worked the timer into our interface since they didn't intended that the ID-profession was to be mastered withing an hour or two. That's all. Now it is quite an achievement to master ID and wit 2k xp for a stat migration it is not that bad. Yes, the XP-progression is quite frustrating and Kwee will not stop to show the devs that they still need to work on this part, but basically it is like it should be now.
Everyone who mastered ID after our profession-enhancement (how the devs called it) got my deepest respect for this and everyone who did it to keep it atleast for a while got even more respect from me.
May the Force be with you all!
TechnoCan
Erann
Tue Aug 03, 2004 2:42 pm
#4
The grinding animals now go to the far end of the tent and silently stat their alternate characters 10 mins at a time. I wish they would grind in moerina or verendi isle
Finduilas
Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:48 pm
#5
TechnoCan wrote:The devs have worked the timer into our interface since they didn't intended that the ID-profession was to be mastered withing an hour or two. That's all. Now it is quite an achievement to master ID and wit 2k xp for a stat migration it is not that bad. Yes, the XP-progression is quite frustrating and Kwee will not stop to show the devs that they still need to work on this part, but basically it is like it should be now.Everyone who mastered ID after our profession-enhancement (how the devs called it) got my deepest respect for this and everyone who did it to keep it atleast for a while got even more respect from me.May the Force be with you all!TechnoCan
It "basically is like it should be now"? Now that is a scary statement...
I fail to see why there should be any inherent merit in having mastered ID by subjecting yourself to an artificially slowed down, mindnumbingly boring, grinding process. I do respect the commitment and effort of those that have done so, though. But...
This is NOT the way to sort out the dedicated MIDs from the hologrinders, in my opinion. The real cost over time for mastering image design is the large amount of skill points you have tied up into this profession. Hologrinders can never be anything but a temporary nuissance, as they will quickly drop the title, free up the skill points and move on.
If you are a dedicated MID on the other hand, you will stick with the profession, build up a reputation and regular customer base and commit yourself to deliver excellence on a daily basis. Respect should be gained from the way you do your job, not how you got the job in the first place.
I mastered in a few hours, way back when, but I have kept my MID title up every day for ten months now and I don't ever plan to take it down. Am I less deserving of the title than somebody who just spent 40 hours to master it yesterday?
This is not directed towards those of you who have mastered under the new system. I applaud your efforts. But the system itself is wrong. The timers must go.
Mittandra / Evelina
Spawnn
Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:12 am
#6
I am just wondering why in the world they put a timer on ID .. to me this isNOT fun
, it's time consuming. If i had to master this profession it would take forever, just getting the ID tree in entertainer takes way to long .. why should i take up so much of another players time? Games are suppose to be fun. To get 1k of xp takes well over 40 mins. If someone can explain to me the reasoning behind this please do so. Also if there is someplace better to post this message please let me know.
, it's time consuming. If i had to master this profession it would take forever, just getting the ID tree in entertainer takes way to long .. why should i take up so much of another players time? Games are suppose to be fun. To get 1k of xp takes well over 40 mins. If someone can explain to me the reasoning behind this please do so. Also if there is someplace better to post this message please let me know. UNHAPPY CAMPER
Mawie
Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:22 am
#7
Um, I think it had something to do with SOE wanting to suck our souls out. It isn't enough that they bleed our wallets dry. 
LOL, actually, they wanted to keep people from going through the profession in two hours. Before the patch, people completed the profession too easily... now it is the complete opposite. At least that is my impression.
JohboBocal
Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:58 am
#8
Spawnn wrote:
To get 1k of xp takes well over 40 mins.
UNHAPPY CAMPER
Once you hit the second tree of ID under entertainer you ger 300XP for a simple eye color change. If your in an ID tent, which you should be if your concerned about the time it takes, this only takes about 2 1/2 minutes. So in 10 minutes you would have 1200XP.
Then once you hit Novice ID you get 2K of XP for migrating stats. It takes 10 minutes to do this.
Just thought I would clarify that. I am not happy about there being a timer either, but we need to get the facts straight.
Plagvreugd
Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:59 am
#9
The entertainer part of ID is quite doable and so is the rest of the way to MID, if you have a dummy to grind stat migrations on, or rather I mean that the time it takes is quite doable. If you can grind it, it doesn't take too long, it's just that it's mind numbingly boring. And it's also a bit odd that you need ID skills to get master entertainer, which really only involves playing one of the coolest instruments around.
Thewt
TechnoCan
Wed Aug 04, 2004 7:41 am
#10
Finduilas wrote:
TechnoCan wrote:
The devs have worked the timer into our interface since they didn't intended that the ID-profession was to be mastered withing an hour or two. That's all. Now it is quite an achievement to master ID and wit 2k xp for a stat migration it is not that bad. Yes, the XP-progression is quite frustrating and Kwee will not stop to show the devs that they still need to work on this part, but basically it is like it should be now.
Everyone who mastered ID after our profession-enhancement (how the devs called it) got my deepest respect for this and everyone who did it to keep it atleast for a while got even more respect from me.
May the Force be with you all!
TechnoCan
It "basically is like it should be now"? Now that is a scary statement...
I fail to see why there should be any inherent merit in having mastered ID by subjecting yourself to an artificially slowed down, mindnumbingly boring, grinding process. I do respect the commitment and effort of those that have done so, though. But...
This is NOT the way to sort out the dedicated MIDs from the hologrinders, in my opinion. The real cost over time for mastering image design is the large amount of skill points you have tied up into this profession. Hologrinders can never be anything but a temporary nuissance, as they will quickly drop the title, free up the skill points and move on.
If you are a dedicated MID on the other hand, you will stick with the profession, build up a reputation and regular customer base and commit yourself to deliver excellence on a daily basis. Respect should be gained from the way you do your job, not how you got the job in the first place.
I mastered in a few hours, way back when, but I have kept my MID title up every day for ten months now and I don't ever plan to take it down. Am I less deserving of the title than somebody who just spent 40 hours to master it yesterday?
This is not directed towards those of you who have mastered under the new system. I applaud your efforts. But the system itself is wrong. The timers must go.
Mittandra / Evelina
I never said the system is perfect, but it is much closer to how it should be, that it was before.
If this ideas is scary for you, then I'm sorry, but it is the truth.
I agree with you view of how to gain respect. But this is not only about how others respect you, but also about the respect of the ID to his/her profession. If you have to work for something hard, then you value it much more than when you get it on a silverplate. So Now with the timers not only others may pay more respect to those that master this nice profession now, but those that do it, will value what they have achieved much higher now, too. And so I still conclude:
Allthough not perfect the new system is much better than the Instant-mastership we had before and much more desirable.
May the Force be with you all!
TechnoCan
Mawie
Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:13 am
#11
Gotta love the drama of these boards!!
OK, I think there is a problem here, and the problem is "extremes." At one extreme, Image Designer was being mastered via macro in two hours. In the other extreme, Image Designer now takes well over 40 hours of game time to master. Then there are IDs who think that one extreme is better than the other (whichever it might be).
I think there needs to be a middle ground. Obviously, we don't want this profession to be a joke, but then there is also no honor in spending way too much time mastering a profession. I mastered it twice, before the patch, and after the patch. Both times I was equally thrilled when I became a master. I also have the ability to see the benefits and problems with both systems. BOTH sides are equally wrong. Either SOE needs to fix the XP issue, or they need to fix the timer issue. Something has to change. Not everything... something.
Kasaaz
Wed Aug 04, 2004 10:31 am
#12
You are correct about 'extremes.' I have a feeling part of it has to do with peoples own rationalizations on how 'fair' the old system or new one is based on other players having mastered in the other system. I mastered Image Design a long, long time ago. When I mastered it, I didn't know much about macros, but regardless, back then, a macro could not have been sustained.There were no Entertainer Mind Buffs. There were no mind altering foods. All I had was some Muon Gold and some patience. And I had a few very patient Dancers who I befriended. I lined up my windows, etc and just started clicking. It probably took me somewhere around 25 - 30 hours to master ID. I felt it was a little fast compared to other professions.
Now do I agree that the timers are the best fix? No, not really. Can I think of a better fix? No, not really. I used to think that once you had mastered, there should be no timer regardless, because you weren't really doing it for experience anymore. Then I realized that timers are just enough of an inconvenience to drag the Masters back into the Salons.This builds community, etc. This is a good thing, in my opinion.
All of this has to do with non-stat migrations. I don't like the stat migration timer, but I can live with it. At first I thought that Master should get some bonus over a non-Master on stat migrations, but then I realized it would deny the non-Masters even more of a chance to make any money. I know that when I am in the tent a large portion of the time people will be redirected to me because they want a change or a color or a style that a non-Master cannot do. Let them at least have stat migrations to make some money while they are grinding.
My issue with stat migrations comes from location. I live with my PA in a player city on Dantooine. I have had multiple requests for stat migration. Most of the time I have to tell them not only will they have to wait out the timer, but they will have to fly all the way to Coronet first. And most of the time I'd rather not drop everything I'm doing to go all the way to Coronet. Currently there are no Salons for player cities which is, in my mind, a problem. What I think would be the best solution is a playercity Salon or allow the player cityCantina tocount as a Salon. I had considered aDroid module that allows a Master Image Designer to have, basically, a mobile Salon, but that would invalidate the whole idea that the time builds community by pushing players into Salons.A Player City Salon would still build community within the PA and possibly within the people who are normally on the planet, as it would be Public.
Just some random thoughts, musings, etc. on the Timer issue.
Madam
Wed Aug 04, 2004 10:45 am
#13
Mist_of_the_Starburst wrote:
Sure its not fun, but look at the brightside. Its cheap. You spend no money or time to get resources to master this profession.
Good point! I cost me a fortune to Master Combat Medic and Artisan! All is costs is time. AND when you think of it that way,with those other professionsyou are spending the sametime and credits with very little profit. With ID, no resources and huge profit! ID is a win/win situation to master! 
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