Image Designer Archive
Thread: My Grrrrr For The Day....
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IssogiKa
Tue Jun 29, 2004 3:22 pm
#1
Image Design has been made into a profession that people can make good money doing. Then something like this happens.
Read the remarks from Anith. (On Bloodfin)
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=90391
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=90392
I know there aren't rules to charging but as far as just being nice and not spamming "Hey I'll give free stat mig. in the salons" is just being nice to your fellow ID's who DO use this to make a living.
IssogiKa
Tue Jun 29, 2004 3:52 pm
#2
I'd like to add that after I made this post she changed her macro to say she will do it for tips atleast.
FuschiaD
Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:22 pm
#3
Crimany... could she have been any more rude?
I hope she reads the forums.She needs to understand how much not charging, even though she doesn't need the money, hurts other people in the profession.
IssogiKa
Tue Jun 29, 2004 7:17 pm
#4
Yes I have to completely agree. I'm not hurting for money either, but I do charge. Sometimes there are things I want to buy for myself or for friends. I also purchase outfits and give newb dancers one to help them present themselves better and make better tips. By not charging it severly hurts other ID's who use this as their main money maker.
She sent me another tell apologizing for being rude, which was nice. Said she does understand so she did change the macro to say she was doing it for tips.
I hope others who have decided not to charge read this and it helps to convince them to change also.
KeyTokikoMima
Tue Jun 29, 2004 9:51 pm
#5
Well.. this is a tricky question. It's possible she could have just been a very good salesperson, and using this opportunity to sell other things. Maybe she'd been burned by someone overcharging recently?
I'm going to have to side with the 'It's her quarter' arguement here.Granted Image Design is a feast or famine profession as far as money goes, and it is rude of here to have not initially included you in her thoughts... However, she's not breaking any laws, either. As a business owner, she can also advertise like this, as well. It sucks, but it's true. Stores undercut each other all the time just like this.
What I would do should the situation occur again, is ask her to do your Stat Migration since she's doing them for free. Tell your friends to go to her right now, since she's free.3+ people can keep an ID busy and not advertising for a long, longwhile. Experiment with your stats! There has to be a way to get them to line up verticallyto matchyour telephone number! Have fun!
Message Edited by KeyTokikoMima on 06-29-2004 09:54 PM
Merlinmast
Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:55 am
#6
Other than my 20k Stat Migration fee, i usually charge very little for ID work. Why? Because there are usually not enough ID's to go around anyway and i really enjoy ID'ing. As long as the person is pleasant i usually don't charge more than 3k if that much. How realize i work out of Coronet and there are MORE than enough players to keep the few ID's that may be in the tent busy. I never sit there shouting in competition with others that I give free ID's. As a matter of fact I never shout that I'm free, i just usually say it in groupchat when I'm done with them. So i don't really ruin business. I just grab the scraps of customers that overflow from the other ID's and take care of them.
Mystyrys
Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:22 am
#7
Wow. She was rather rude there at first, wasn't she? I mean, it just seems common sense to not spam free services when you are standing in a tent next to others trying to make a living off what you are giving away. How would she like it if another Master Doc sat down next to her in CNet and started spamming free buffs? And then told her if she didn't like it, too bad, cuz she's also a master weaponsmith and armorsmith and makes millions and is only a doc for fun so she gives away buffs for free? Move up the food chain, or down, it's the same thing. Don't spam freebies in the face of others trying to make their living doing that service. Common sense?
On the other hand, I guess I'd be a bit tense if someone sent me a tell informing me my prices were too high or too low(has happened to my tailor, did make me mad)and I might be tempted to reply with less than courtesy. Tempted, but wouldn't. I refuse to let anyone get me riled up enough to discard courtesy. I thank them for their adviceand then ignore any further discussion. But... Criticism hurts, even when given with the best intentions.
However; the spam is atrocious. I really, really hate spammers, no matter what they are selling or asking for. As if it's not annoying enough to be confined in a small space like that, you also have to put up with that spam so you can't even carry on a conversation? Spamming is pollution. Stop it. Grrr.
But there is that point about advertising. Freebies do get customers in the door. Buy one weapon get a free repair kit. Buy one full suit of armor get one free matching chest piece. Free gets their attention. And once you have that, then maybe you can sell them something they didn't even think they wanted. Nothing wrong with that kind of advertising. But in this scenario, it was done rudely, and to the detriment of all the other IDs around her.
Not against any rules, this is true. And acceptable trade practice, also true. But polite and the consensus on business practice etiquette among IDers? No.
I do not spam. Don't have to. I can't walk through Bestine without someone grabbing me and begging me to go to the tent. Kinda kinky. Heh. I also never, ever, absolutely never discuss prices in spatial. Never. Never. Only in tells or after we are in group chat.
I work for tips. But sometimes I don't. Sometimes it's a smacktard and I charge him/her for my pain and suffering. Sometimes I'm feeling really, really charitable and will do a newbie for free... or for fun."I can do whatever I want to you? Oh cool. Brace yourself."
If I see novices working in there, I back out and go slice and dice mobs. I do have another profession to work on. I try to let the novices not have to compete against me. I don't need that xp, nor the money, not that bad. If I'm already there and so are a few others, I will try my best to direct those who want only a stat migrate to please ask the IDs that are trying to grind to master. So I don't announce prices "out loud" either. If the customer wants to comparison shop, that's his right. But there's no reason I need to shoot down someone charging 50k or to be squashed by someone doing it for free by stating my prices in open chat.
I'm glad she saw reason, and chose to be more considerate of her fellow IDers. Now if only she would see that macro spamming in the tent is bad form too.
TechnoCan
Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:57 am
#8
Yes pricing is a very tricky question. Not only for ID. I'm not really dependant on the cash I make as ID either, but I do charge. I don't charge much and often only take what the customer can afford or spare (atleast from the nice ones).
The key in situations like this should be cooperation. I had a similar situation once. I was standing in the tent with a Master ID. Very nice person and we had a nice talk all the time. She charged 20k for the migration, I usually only charge 10k. So we talked about it for a few and met in the middle both charging 15k. I still lowered my price for those that couldn't effort it else, as did she. We were all happy until some ID-'power'-grinder appeared and accused her for stealing him the xp since she won't need it as Master anymore... well, this is another story.
So my piece of advise for such situations is: talk to each other and find a solution all can live with. It has worked for me and in the case of this thread it seemed to have worked in the end too.
May the Force be with you all!
Technocan
The key in situations like this should be cooperation. I had a similar situation once. I was standing in the tent with a Master ID. Very nice person and we had a nice talk all the time. She charged 20k for the migration, I usually only charge 10k. So we talked about it for a few and met in the middle both charging 15k. I still lowered my price for those that couldn't effort it else, as did she. We were all happy until some ID-'power'-grinder appeared and accused her for stealing him the xp since she won't need it as Master anymore... well, this is another story.
So my piece of advise for such situations is: talk to each other and find a solution all can live with. It has worked for me and in the case of this thread it seemed to have worked in the end too.
May the Force be with you all!
Technocan
Kealles
Wed Jun 30, 2004 5:15 am
#9
Due to the xp increase in stat migrations, I can see this becoming a growing problem. Now that stat migrations are "the way" to get MID the fastest and so many people want them, the aspiring ID is going to try his hardest to que up as many clients as possible. 
Girl_One
Wed Jun 30, 2004 5:18 am
#10
I also had a problem with an ID who was giving stat migrations for free, so I talked to her and we ended up spending a lot of time yesterday migrating each other for exp when things were quiet. In fact the problem solved itself because she suddenly found that she needed money to pursue a second profession that she was interested in, so she was faced with either charging or going and doing something else to generate some cash.
Generally I think that that the problem of ID's that don't charge solves itself before long. Ifthey are not making money off it thenthey have no real reason to stay for long, so they will soon get bored and go away and annoy someone else.
Kealles
Wed Jun 30, 2004 5:19 am
#11
Sorry, I meant to phrase "the aspiring ID" as "the aspiring ID-grinder"
I've yet tomeet an ID, novice or master, that has been free of charge and spamming it. 
FuschiaD
Wed Jun 30, 2004 9:45 am
#12
For me, it's not the fact that she was giving her services away (although that does bother me intensely, we're such a small community that something like that affects every other ID on the server). It's the fact that she was spamming it RIGHT next to a person who charges for their services. Stat migration isn't a service that varies in quality. Anyone with novice ID can do it. If you were to go into a store, and someone was selling, say, a lamp for twenty bucks... and someone else was standing RIGHT next to them giving the same lamp away for FREE... who would you go to? I dunno about anyone else, but I'd take the free one. It's the nature of the game to want to get the best deal possible, and it doesn't get any better than free, but it hurts everyone else who's trying to earn a living selling the same service.
I think, from now on, I'm not going to patronize anyone who gives away their services. Besides helping the economy, it would shock the daylights out of them, and that's ALWAYS fun!
Plagvreugd
Wed Jun 30, 2004 12:43 pm
#13
I think it's her good right to ID for free - but my god, the spam! I'd have much more issues with that than with the free IDing.
Thewt
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