Image Designer Archive
Thread: PLEASE oh PLEASE don't flame this, but...
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Phenix1050
Thu May 13, 2004 9:08 am
#1
Hi, my name is Phenix. I am a Ranger. I do not belong on your boards. Now that we got the obvious out to the way, please consider what I have to say. What I am proposing may hurt you. You would have to spend credits to make modifications on people. I probably shoud stop there and end the entire idea, but I have somehting to say, and I'd appreciate any constructive ideas from your proffession.
Okay, it is just me, or does anyone else find it odd that the developers, who talk so amorously about the phrase "inter-dependance" between the classes have just put a publish out that does nothing more than erradicate that for one proffesion?
I realize that image designers haven't gotten ANY love from the developers until now.yet. But I am left wondering why oh why the developers created a proffesion that requires NO materials, NO schematics and NO interdependacnce. I ask this purely out of indignance since yesterday, after the publish, when my stats were about 12 away from their desired values ( i was trying to change them before the publish), i was told it would cost 30k for an Image Designer to redo my stats. When I asked why I should pay so much, I was told because it would take 6 minutes to complete.
EXCUSE ME?!?!Unles we got an AVIAN meat that had perfect 1000 stats across the board, it would be impossible for a Ranger to come CLOSE to that amount of credits/minute. And we're talking about a profesion that requires NO other proffession to work. Stat migration,your newest trick, is an inherent skill, like musicians. Unlike musicians, however, they don't need an instrument. They don't need anything. Does anyone else find this a little disturbing?
I don't want to rant, I want to offer an idea, so I apologize for the above. I realize I could delete it and start again, but the ranting works for me. But here's the point:
I think that ID's shouldn't be the sole proffesion which can make amazing amounts of money and need nothing to make them do their job better. Changing hair color in real life requires product, why shouldn't it be the same in game. ID's can make "hair dye" kits. Changing someones' hair color will consume one of these kits. Heck if they were really smart, they could make the dye add a modifier to the hair dying skills. The better the dye, the more colors they can dye. A novice ID would get to use the good dyes, but they wouldnt' get all the colors, but they'd get more options than they normally would. Only a master ID, with the best dye would have access to every single color. Same thing for all the other modification that ID's can do.Facial modifications could require a "plastic surgery" tool that has certain charges. These would be to be experimented on for quality and uses.
Dyes in real life were originally made with organic material from the environment. Why not take that one step further and make it so that some of these "kits" (all the kit's they're going to use for Re-designing) require harvestable materials from animals? For facial surgery, perhaps hide to provide a "protective cover" when the face is being re-shaped. Maybe bone for making the tool. Animal meat could be used for dyes, and specific types of meat could be used for advanced dyes.
I don't know. Just a rant/idea. a randea, if you will. or if you won't. Please, consider this game as a whole, and how working together helps the entire community and the galactic trade as a whole. Feel free to send me a personal message if you want to discuss this.
and as I said...please oh please don't flame this. you're better than that.
Phenix1050
Thu May 13, 2004 9:18 am
#2
I re-read my post and i suppose it comes off a little harsher than i meant it to. I have no real reason to be angry with Image Designers.
I realize your time is valuable, but consider this: most combat proffessions require missions to make money. If I do 2 high-level missions, it may take me about 20 minutes to do both with travel and everything like that. If I'm lucky, I MIGHT get 10k from those two missions. Asking fro 30k for 6 minutes of your time just makes no sense by those numbers.
at least not to me
but again, let me apologize for the overall tone in my first post. There was no need for the sarcasm/anger.
eh, I'm only human. errrr....Bothan.
Valaxis
Thu May 13, 2004 9:25 am
#3
I understand where you're coming from. I was a ranger before I went image designer and I can connect with rangers making next tonothing, or at least not nearly as much as a TKM who can endlessly solo ER lairs.
There's one problem I see with stat migration: the image designers can not see how many stats are being moved. I had originally planned to base my prices off of that, but who's to say that someone wouldn't say "I'd like to move 12 stat points" and then give themself a total makeover? Lots and LOTS of IDs have chosen to get around this by charging a HIGHER flat rate. I have chosen to get around it by charging a LOWER flat rate. I mean it's just 10 minutes, and I have people I can talk to and keep me amused for 10 minutes. It's not that big a deal.
Actually I think it would be good to have IDs need to buy dye or something like that. Would fit in great with the ranger prof and give THEM another marketable skill. I mean really... how DO you make someone's hair neon pink without dyes? It is something that has been brought up on this forum before.
I can tell, even depite the frustration obvious in your post, that you're trying to be constructive. Lots of people are but aren't coming across quite right. It's the thought that counts, right? I don't know what server you're on, but I'm sure you can find someone willing to stat migrate you for 5K or less. At worst just wait a couple days until the novelty of being needed wears off. I imagine some IDs will come to their senses and start charging more reasonable prices, although many already are.
Gyopi
Thu May 13, 2004 9:25 am
#4
If people are asking 30K on testcenter, then that sounds very high! On the other hand, some people are charging high prices or not doing stat migration at all out of protest.
TooVeeOrahno
Thu May 13, 2004 9:27 am
#5
Hey I'm all for craftable items for image designing. I think that would be fun. I'm for anything that stops people from coming here and starting "you don't use any resources" threads.
By the way, we image designers can't migrate out own stats. We have to see another iamge designer for that, and pay as well. We're about as thrilled with it as you are.
Faife
Thu May 13, 2004 9:28 am
#6
I charge 12k for a stat migration 
I usually actually get 15-20k for it
I usually actually get 15-20k for it
Panthu
Thu May 13, 2004 9:28 am
#7
I think I know the Dev thinking on this one... it's because we are "Service Oriented", which means we were already made with dependency in mind. We have to have customers to work right, period.
Now, that makes sense when you contrast it to combat... I think it gets a little blurry when you bring up Medics and Scouts and compare them to Ents.
Note: Ent missions top out at about 200 credits right now. That's two hundred, not thousand. 
Any Ent prof really doesn't have a gameplay option with out other players right now. IDs don't even have their own Ent missions, they have to play music or dance.
Any Ent prof really doesn't have a gameplay option with out other players right now. IDs don't even have their own Ent missions, they have to play music or dance.All that said, I personally wouldn't mind having to buy pigments for dyes from Rangers, that would actually be pretty cool... but I think we'd need more non-service related income options to help balance it out.I would be ok with that option as long as Social aspects were still guarded.
Phenix1050
Thu May 13, 2004 10:00 am
#8
wow. honestly...that 200 per ent mission is awful. can't say i knew that. So I guess that's a hinderance to entertainers and ID's. But considering that new players will innevitably need stat migration/ IDing, and people changing proffessions will change stats too, I'm almost positive that you can stay in business.
another thing i think I forgot to mention: i think that you should retain your skills, even without a kit. If you have a kit, you can do more. Like you can change 50pts of stats with no help, and get a certain number of colors with no dye, but to change a lot of stats or appearences, it seems to make sense that a kit or dye should be used.
Also, seriously devs....the ID's need to be able to see how many stat's they're changing...
and btw, I'm on Eclipse...and as a Ranger, 30k seemed high for 6 minutes. Honestly, I was expecting about 10k and i was a little miffed...but now that i see that you have no way to do missions i get the prices a little more. But still just going by time...5k per minute ( i was standing in a terminal) is a bit excessive (in my humble opinion).
anyway thanks for all the *constructive* feedback.
Gyopi
Thu May 13, 2004 10:10 am
#9
Phenix1050 wrote:
Also, seriously devs....the ID's need to be able to see how many stat's they're changing...
and btw, I'm on Eclipse...and as a Ranger, 30k seemed high for 6 minutes. Honestly, I was expecting about 10k and i was a little miffed...but now that i see that you have no way to do missions i get the prices a little more. But still just going by time...5k per minute ( i was standing in a terminal) is a bit excessive (in my humble opinion).
anyway thanks for all the *constructive* feedback.
I didn't realize you were on Eclipse since I saw your test center tag next to your name. I am not sure of the economy on Eclipse, but I know that it is inflated on Lowca. Our guild collects hide and meat to pay for our city instead of lots of taxes. There seems to always be something spawned that gets us orders at 60-100cpu for meat or hides.Eclipse may be a lot cheaper, though.
Fortunes_Lady
Thu May 13, 2004 10:10 am
#10
Well, it's 10 minutes for me to change stats in a tent right now... I charge 25K, and I feel its rather fair for my time (some of us IDers on Shadowfire have agreed to an averate pricing). I do give discounts to Ents and newbs however. And I only charge 1K for hair colour change.
I think that having some sort of crafting involved would be really cool, and be more starwarsy (ie, crafting holoemote devices, dyes, etc). I would feel much better about charging people if I had to buy components, or make them. I'm sure most customers would feel better too (though I haven't seen too many people upset with my prices).
Phenix1050
Thu May 13, 2004 10:19 am
#11
yarg. i haven't updated my profile in a while. I was on TC for the longest...i loved it, but it was time to play with the big boys...and girls.
thanks for the heads up...it should be all changed now lol.
As for the prices on Eclipse: for the best Avian meat, you can anywhere up to 100cpu. Generally, I run with my guild and sell to my guild leader for 15cpu the same stuff that goes for 100cpu. He re-sells to his contractors for barely over that.
For the regular stuff, i rarely sell over 10cpu on the general markets. I might be able to get more, but it's kinda weird to charge MORE for WORSE stuff.
SquireH
Thu May 13, 2004 10:38 am
#12
I think the current issue with the prices is supply and demand.
Theres a lot of new things for ID's to play with now and everyone and their pet rancor are coming to get things changed. When you have 15 people in line behind you waiting and you have to spend 10 minutes on one person when ALL they want is a stat migration it really starts to add up.
Sure its only 10 minutes to you, but its also 10 minutes to more than a dozen other people. Some of which may only have 30 seconds worth of changes they want done.
Now figure in some of those people want to pay 2k each for their 30 second change and the numbers really start to add up.
Currently Im charging 10-15k for stat migrations. But if the tent is empty and im just sitting there I may do them for as low as 2-5k. And if its really dead and nobody came in at all.. Maybe even 1k. As the newness begins to wear off on the ID things youll see the prices drop abit.
Something else I personally do is that if that person that came in for stat migrations also wanted a bunch of changes done then I really wouldent charge them anything for the changes. They already paid for the time that I have to wait on anyway. And time is basiclly what im charging for.
In the time it takes me to change your stats I could have produced a 20 items to put on the bazzar and net myself 40-100k. (Noteing that that would cost materials and time to sell it however)
Theres a lot of new things for ID's to play with now and everyone and their pet rancor are coming to get things changed. When you have 15 people in line behind you waiting and you have to spend 10 minutes on one person when ALL they want is a stat migration it really starts to add up.
Sure its only 10 minutes to you, but its also 10 minutes to more than a dozen other people. Some of which may only have 30 seconds worth of changes they want done.
Now figure in some of those people want to pay 2k each for their 30 second change and the numbers really start to add up.
Currently Im charging 10-15k for stat migrations. But if the tent is empty and im just sitting there I may do them for as low as 2-5k. And if its really dead and nobody came in at all.. Maybe even 1k. As the newness begins to wear off on the ID things youll see the prices drop abit.
Something else I personally do is that if that person that came in for stat migrations also wanted a bunch of changes done then I really wouldent charge them anything for the changes. They already paid for the time that I have to wait on anyway. And time is basiclly what im charging for.
In the time it takes me to change your stats I could have produced a 20 items to put on the bazzar and net myself 40-100k. (Noteing that that would cost materials and time to sell it however)
Fred_Skinner
Thu May 13, 2004 2:24 pm
#13
Somehow, this "change your stats" thing has bothered me for some time. Major attributes should require input from Doctors and Bio Engineers as well. Ideally, I'd like to see something only a ID has the skill to use and assemble, made from parts a BE and a Doc could make, and those components require creature harvest in thier components. Otherwise, we are back to EQ in space-ish feel of the game. If anyone could do this innately it would be Jedi... but I'd rather not give them any more ideas (or help)...
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