Image Designer Archive

Thread: Brainstorm: How to make Novice ID'ers desirable for customers without gimping MID's ;)

Kwee
Fri Jun 11, 2004 7:16 am
#1

Let's get creative.


Whatideas can we come up withaside from adding new art content?




Kwee Glitterwing of Starsider
Ex Image Designer Correspondent ~ Elder Tailor
& Kwee-kwee ~ Master Image Designer
Gamer Girl Columnist ~ swg.warcry.com
Ivory & Topaz of TC ~ Elder Dancers, IDs, Musicians

Syzygy-Gorath
Fri Jun 11, 2004 7:20 am
#2

This isn't going to be much better than new art content in terms of implementation time, but…


Rather than have new options available with each skillbox, increase the range of each options available settings. That is to say, you would be able to change everything at Novice Image Designer, however, in much the same way that you won't have access to all the hairstyles, you won't have the full 0-255 range on any of the sliders until climbing to master. So, you might at NID be able to change weight within the 96-160 range or the like.



œ Slone Varnillian œ Eicia Obai œ Panda-Sy œ
Most of the universe's problems can be solved by the application of a brick to the side of the right head.
The problem is if you don't have a big enough brick or can't find the right head. The devil is in the details.
œ Galena Varnillian œ Ammon œ Gwrtheyrn œ

S_Thark
Fri Jun 11, 2004 7:56 am
#3


I have to admit, I do solemnly agree with the previous post. The only way to make a novice ID more desirable is to give more functions to them from the beginning, but to make the range in which those modifications can take place more limited.

The best example in this regard in myopinionare the hairstyles as they are currently implemented. You start out with a few and some colours and as you progress in the hairstyles skilltree the range and variety of the image designer improves. I still remember how often players wanted a change of the torso or the skin-colour or the tattoo of me, which was simply not available to me at that point of grinding.


  • The problem is that this might well be possible with the Tattoo/Marking skilltree as patterns and colours available to a progressing Image designer could be limited there, fairly well.

  • On the other hand for facial changes and body changes, this will pose a problem. For those you could either limit the ranges in which a change would be possible to the novice or you could limit the "poistions" the slider could take.

  • For body changes the idea of gradually making more skin-colours available comes to mind (beginning at Body II possibly).

  • For facial changes the similar could apply to the eye-colour changes possible.

  • Another option entirely would be to limit the possible amount of a change. E.g. a novice could only change a slider by two dots from the original position. That of course would make it possible to a novice to change it by 100% by performing one session after the next, but this would still be a lot less desireable to the client then having a master service her/him in one go.

Just some ideas that came to mind now, without requring much in the means of new content (though that of course would be highly desired by me, too ). Should I come up with some more, I will post again.

Message Edited by S_Thark on 06-11-2004 04:57 PM



____________________________
Dr Sirrek Thark · Imperial Colonel · Head of Honor-Squad Praetoria (also in JTL Beta)
Tido Thark · Imperial 1st Lieutenant · 6.1% Force Sensitive
Codi Ita · Master Image Designer · Master Musician · Dancer (marvelous Twi'lek)
Codi' Ita · Master Tailor · Master Merchant (yes I got bored)


Sir_Voor
Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:21 am
#4

ID missions, this is needed badly they would give novice a fun way to fine tune their skills and get exp. Plus equires no new artwork.


by adding Terminals for MIDs only, MIDswill move out of the NPC tents leaving them fornovice IDers and they will have move customers to work with.


Bodypaints could make Novice IDinga lot moredesirable; give novice bright colors and masters could get metallic colors. and have the time they last base on number of skill boxs the ID has, instead of increasing his color pallette. Starting at 1-hour and adding 5mins per box.









[`M Sir VOOR N`\

Syzygy-Gorath
Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:27 am
#5






Sir_Voor wrote:

ID missions, this is needed badly they would give novice a fun way to fine tune their skills and get exp. Plus equires no new artwork.


by adding Terminals for MIDs only, MIDswill move out of the NPC tents leaving them fornovice IDers and they will have move customers to work with.


Bodypaints could make Novice IDinga lot moredesirable; give novice bright colors and masters could get metallic colors. and have the time they last base on number of skill boxs the ID has, instead of increasing his color pallette. Starting at 1-hour and adding 5mins per box.



The problem with adding new colors is that we kind of screwed ourselves with the "enhancement." You see, colors as we see them don't actually exist—they're just a reference to an array location…so when you see a blue Twi'lek, they aren't really blue, they're twilek_skin_color[53] or the like. Now, the reason this is problematic is that with the number of new colors we have we've reached a hard limit in the coding—in order to add more colors they would either have to add room for another full 256 colors, or add an entirely new palette, both of which would double the amount of DB space required just for skin color.


In other words, don't expect to see this anytime soon, if ever.




œ Slone Varnillian œ Eicia Obai œ Panda-Sy œ
Most of the universe's problems can be solved by the application of a brick to the side of the right head.
The problem is if you don't have a big enough brick or can't find the right head. The devil is in the details.
œ Galena Varnillian œ Ammon œ Gwrtheyrn œ

Nouva
Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:28 am
#6


You know now that I think of it, thats not a bad idea. Allow a Novice image designer ALL of the character creation functions but limit the slider. For example have the slider begin at "fat" for weight and as the ID gets more experienced she can make her clients more skinny, or vice versa.


The UI, while useful, is obstructive to chat and other functions. God forbid you are overt and cant see the enemy coming into your place of business. Allow clothing changes in the UI, this way the client can at least try on outfits to see if they compliment the design. It could eleviate some boredome.


I am sorry to say Kwee, but new art content will make the profession more fun. The developers should treat us like any other paying customer that chose a combat profession. We deserve the time and resources just as much as any other profession. Don't let the developers continue to believe thier efforts are valued more elsewhere because a popular majority tells them so. The less vocal and submissive we are, the less we will get in terms of progress, hence why it took them almost a year to give us a freakin expanded color palette when all other professions that use an expanded color palatte had one at launch or were given a complete one 5 months ago. Kwee, you are our voice, get vocal and don't accept NO for an answer. The combat professions surely don't...


1/1/1/1 through MID's need new hairstyles and body/face modifications no one else has seen. Let the entertainers 1-4 and novice ID have the current hairstyles and slider bars. A 1/1/1/1 through MID should be able to show new content, color, and body/face modification not allowed in creation. Advanced ID's should have options for making others fatter/skinnier in other body areas such as: Neck, Torso WIDTH, Leg/Thigh/Foot Thickness, Arm/Hand Thickness, Lekku Thickness/Length, Horn Length, Antennae Thickness, Torso Enlargement, 3-D hair growth, and Head Thickness/Width. Let advanced ID's have the hairstyles we see on so many NPC's and wonder why we don't have them. It's not like they need to add more code, its already in there and SHOULD BE AVAILABLE to us.


Make PLAYER CITY salons. I am a master. I no longer need a starting city to do my profession. I should not be forced to goto one. That is NOT FUN, it is a time and credi sink to travel for a person who probably wont want anything from you when you get there. But perhaps that was the developer vision to create a "stealth" time/credit sink for us.


Keep the timer but make it a reverse timer. Don't make a customer wait in a window. Allow a timer in between the id command just like any other action like mask scent, sample, forage, etc. This way an ID at least has an opportunity to do something else while they wait in between sessions, like dance or music professions, or heck even resource sampling.


Allow ID's to design player merchants. Novice merchants go through countless hours of creating NPC merchants. By giving ID's the ability to help merchants in this fashion you give them another marketable skill that is FUN and in the lines of what our class was meant to do. On the same note, allow ID's to color clothing and armor. As of right now, a player can still color his/her composite armor themselves. Why not allow an ID to do it?


Give us craftable items! Lipsticks, eye shadows, wigs, etc. What better way for a novice to make money and get ID xp if they cannot find a customer or student? At least it gives an ID an option other than watching a UI window. It also gives players an option if they dont want to travel to an image designer, but can still support thier favorite designer by buying her products. Dare I say GCW involvement with Disguise Kits?! These kits could change your appearance and cover your faction for a time. The possibilities are endless in the crafting department.


I am sure I could come up with other stuff, but it will be just the same things we ben asking for since launch and never received. Here's some coffee, now take a good long whiff...



Oh, and fix the entertainer profession....

The Illustrious Lady China 
Crimelord of Bestine, Leader of the ORCA
The Galaxy’s First Master Image Designer
Entertainer Extraordinaire 
Syzygy-Gorath
Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:38 am
#7






Nouva wrote:


You know now that I think of it, thats not a bad idea. Allow a Novice image designer ALL of the character creation functions but limit the slider. For example have the slider begin at "fat" for weight and as the ID gets more experienced she can make her clients more skinny, or vice versa.


The UI, while useful, is obstructive to chat and other functions. God forbid you are overt and cant see the enemy coming into your place of business. Allow clothing changes in the UI, this way the client can at least try on outfits to see if they compliment the design. It could eleviate some boredome.


I am sorry to say Kwee, but new art content will make the profession more fun. The developers should treat us like any other paying customer that chose a combat profession. We deserve the time and resources just as much as any other profession. Don't let the developers continue to believe thier efforts are valued more elsewhere because a popular majority tells them so. The less vocal and submissive we are, the less we will get in terms of progress, hence why it took them almost a year to give us a freakin expanded color palette when all other professions that use an expanded color palatte had one at launch or were given a complete one 5 months ago. Kwee, you are our voice, get vocal and don't accept NO for an answer. The combat professions surely don't...


1/1/1/1 through MID's need new hairstyles and body/face modifications no one else has seen. Let the entertainers 1-4 and novice ID have the current hairstyles and slider bars. A 1/1/1/1 through MID should be able to show new content, color, and body/face modification not allowed in creation. Advanced ID's should have options for making others fatter/skinnier in other body areas such as: Neck, Torso WIDTH, Leg/Thigh/Foot Thickness, Arm/Hand Thickness, Lekku Thickness/Length, Horn Length, Antennae Thickness, Torso Enlargement, 3-D hair growth, and Head Thickness/Width. Let advanced ID's have the hairstyles we see on so many NPC's and wonder why we don't have them. It's not like they need to add more code, its already in there and SHOULD BE AVAILABLE to us.


Make PLAYER CITY salons. I am a master. I no longer need a starting city to do my profession. I should not be forced to goto one. That is NOT FUN, it is a time and credi sink to travel for a person who probably wont want anything from you when you get there. But perhaps that was the developer vision to create a "stealth" time/credit sink for us.


Keep the timer but make it a reverse timer. Don't make a customer wait in a window. Allow a timer in between the id command just like any other action like mask scent, sample, forage, etc. This way an ID at least has an opportunity to do something else while they wait in between sessions, like dance or music professions, or heck even resource sampling.


Allow ID's to design player merchants. Novice merchants go through countless hours of creating NPC merchants. By giving ID's the ability to help merchants in this fashion you give them another marketable skill that is FUN and in the lines of what our class was meant to do. On the same note, allow ID's to color clothing and armor. As of right now, a player can still color his/her composite armor themselves. Why not allow an ID to do it?


Give us craftable items! Lipsticks, eye shadows, wigs, etc. What better way for a novice to make money and get ID xp if they cannot find a customer or student? At least it gives an ID an option other than watching a UI window. It also gives players an option if they dont want to travel to an image designer, but can still support thier favorite designer by buying her products. Dare I say GCW involvement with Disguise Kits?! These kits could change your appearance and cover your faction for a time. The possibilities are endless in the crafting department.


I am sure I could come up with other stuff, but it will be just the same things we ben asking for since launch and never received. Here's some coffee, now take a good long whiff...








  • Abilities at NID: agree

  • Outfit changes in UI: agree

  • New content: agree

  • Player city salons: agree

  • Reverse-timer (I like to call it medic-style) : agree

  • Vendor IDing: agree

  • Clothing/armor customization: hell no. Hell, hell, HELL no. As a tailor I'd throw an absolute fit, and I know many others would as well, if our clothing could be recolored. One of the biggest advantages of being a master tailor is that we get the "good colors." Allow any old novice's clothing to be recolored to master and you've just gimped us.

  • Craftables: agreed (there would need to be some limitations to crafted items to keep us from becoming a vendor-based, non-interactive profession, but the idea has merit)




œ Slone Varnillian œ Eicia Obai œ Panda-Sy œ
Most of the universe's problems can be solved by the application of a brick to the side of the right head.
The problem is if you don't have a big enough brick or can't find the right head. The devil is in the details.
œ Galena Varnillian œ Ammon œ Gwrtheyrn œ

Nouva
Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:43 am
#8





Clothing/armor customization: hell no. Hell, hell, HELL no. As a tailor I'd throw an absolute fit, and I know many others would as well, if our clothing could be recolored. One of the biggest advantages of being a master tailor is that we get the "good colors." Allow any old novice's clothing to be recolored to master and you've just gimped us.




Good point... strike that, reverse...






(there would need to be some limitations to crafted items to keep us from becoming a vendor-based, non-interactive profession, but the idea has merit)




Which is why I say keep it small, like lipsticks and eye shadows. No permenant body alterations or the like. The disguise kit would be temporary, like an hour only, marketable at a bazaar vendor (as the resources should be cheap), and only available via kit not an ID skill. However say a permenant alteration via ID skill, can have the option of making a person neutral again, with all factions and rewards lost accordingly.

Message Edited by Nouva on 06-11-2004 12:52 PM



Oh, and fix the entertainer profession....

The Illustrious Lady China 
Crimelord of Bestine, Leader of the ORCA
The Galaxy’s First Master Image Designer
Entertainer Extraordinaire 
Kwee
Fri Jun 11, 2004 11:03 am
#9

I'm not saying "aside from art content" because I'm not fighting for it I'm saying it b/c it's a given that I am. I want other ideas, art content is an easy solution.




Kwee Glitterwing of Starsider
Ex Image Designer Correspondent ~ Elder Tailor
& Kwee-kwee ~ Master Image Designer
Gamer Girl Columnist ~ swg.warcry.com
Ivory & Topaz of TC ~ Elder Dancers, IDs, Musicians

SkyShot
Fri Jun 11, 2004 11:24 am
#10

I am a little fuzzy on how to work the UI, but what if a novice ID'er had the ability to "consult" with a MID? That way the NovID could mostly work with the client and have the MID come in and consult - a one shot enablement of a skill that the NovID does not have yet.





SkyShot - Master Swordsman, Master Ranger
SkySpirit - Master ID, Master Dancer
Kwee
Fri Jun 11, 2004 1:02 pm
#11

I definitely like the idea of having a stat migration explanation on the loading screen. I'll ask about that next week.




Kwee Glitterwing of Starsider
Ex Image Designer Correspondent ~ Elder Tailor
& Kwee-kwee ~ Master Image Designer
Gamer Girl Columnist ~ swg.warcry.com
Ivory & Topaz of TC ~ Elder Dancers, IDs, Musicians

Syzygy-Gorath
Fri Jun 11, 2004 1:08 pm
#12






Reiella wrote:


Sz: Fun idea, but would reflect one of the older problems with folks seeking out Master-ID, as there's alot of desire for the Max Setting Torso change... Oh and doubling the amount of possible values doesn't double the data structure size, it only increases it by one bit. Now the correspondant information [ie, the color matrix] would have twice as much space, but that's static content and not strenous on the server [it gets shunted to the client].



Good point—right now it's an 8-bit storage. Whether or not they could concievably do 9-bit or whether they'd have to go to 16-bit is open for debate. I don't know how tey have the storage set up…but either way, the chances that they'd change the size of the struct just to give us temporary skin colors, or if they'd create a new one…pretty unlikely. (Although gawd damn would I love to have a 16-bit color matrix…65K colors. /drool)




œ Slone Varnillian œ Eicia Obai œ Panda-Sy œ
Most of the universe's problems can be solved by the application of a brick to the side of the right head.
The problem is if you don't have a big enough brick or can't find the right head. The devil is in the details.
œ Galena Varnillian œ Ammon œ Gwrtheyrn œ

Just_Bri
Fri Jun 11, 2004 3:28 pm
#13

I would like to direct everyone's attention to my previous idea for allowing "assisted" ID sessions. I am sure someone saved it, and failing that I can search through my post history to locate it again..



____________________________________________________________
"V E E L A" S A I D - Retired Master Smuggler, cancelled 7/27/2005. SOE, think about every non-Jedi "cancelled" signature you've seen, and remember that there will be more as you forget the communities that makes this game's heart and soul. Entertainers, Crafters, Hybrids, Non-Jedi Combats, and Smugglers. When you are closing shop on SWG, remember that you ignored the REAL community to cater to an alpha class that assured this game would never be "balanced."

*Veela encourages you to adopt this sig
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