Game Guides Archive
Thread: The 3 Developers' Top 5 Decisions.
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Genildor
Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:22 pm
#1
These items include decisions that the developers have made that, in my opinion, have changed the game in either a great, so-so, or horrible way. Again, this is my own opinion, but it comes from someone who's been here since beta 2, so it's not as if i've only played for a few weeks. I'm quite experienced in PvP, PvE, and nearly all forms of professions (being them/grouping with them/fighting with them). With that said, here it goes.
TopFive Best Decisions Made By Developers: These are decisions the Dev's have made that have either defined the game, improved by great amounts,or were just a great idea.
1. Player Economy: The player economy, in my opinion, was a game in itself. The way they handled this system was absolutely fantastic.Players are immersed in full aspects of managing businesses. Setting the right price, making the right stuff, and being in the right place at the right time of the economical demand. While 2 people might both be Master Weaponsmiths, their knowledge and experience will decide between a 230 damagegeonosian pistol,and a 410 damage geonosian pistol. It takes skill and resources to become the best, and when you do, you are known very well throughout the server as the best there is.
2. Player vs. Player: This system is, for some, the only remaining strand keeping them to this game. For good reason. To become the best in PvP, the cookie-cutter template isn't what it takes. I've seen a commando/pistoleer, using astounding tactics and strategies, to take out a group ofa CM/master rifleman,a Master doctor/Master combat medic, and a TKM/Master Fencer. Probably one of the most amazing thing's i've seen. He did not exploit or have anyone else helping him. The problem with PvP is the horrible unbalance between professions in many instances. A CM/Master rifleman with the skills and tactics of that commando would be unstoppable.
3. Player Cities: I loved this idea from the start of when i heard that it was in development. Especially the entire system of a politician in charge of it, where the people would decide on who they liked to stay in office. In my cities, being guild run, the politician in charge wasn't ever really questioned, so i didn't get to enjoy that small aspect. However, the possibilities remain the same. Everyone wants to go to the best city with the best services, weapons, armor, and facilities. The only problem that i havewith the Player Citiesis that it has all but ruined the requirement for traveling very long distances. Many see this as a benefit, but i don't. It made it, in my opinion, more of an accomplishment to make it to those amazing POI's and much more of an incentive not to do something stupid (should i try to tame that bull rancor, with the 8 ancients around it...?) since the walk back was something to remember.
4. Player Factional Bases: These were a great concept. I remember the first one on our server, and the fantastic time defending it for the first time. It was a 4 hour long fight. We had no turrets, and all of our hopes revolved around 2 things: That the few people who had survived making it to the city from the base could rally up enough imperials to come help, and the respawn of the stormtrooper NPC's, where we would rush out and attack while they were distracted. It was one of the best times i had ever had in this game. The only problem is, with as said above, that it collides with unbalances in PvP.
5. Profession Revamps: This part was not so much a great idea, but the fixing of lesser ideas. Though this should have been handled sooner than it was, i believe very much that the developers put great ideas and developments into their revamps.
gargomell
Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:29 pm
#2
Genildor wrote:These items include decisions that the developers have made that, in my opinion, have changed the game in either a great, so-so, or horrible way.
Well, you type this, and then every one of your decisions listed is under the category of "great ideas". I've been playing this game since August. Please do not blow sunshine up my rear end. Are you attempting to get a free month of play or something from the Developers?
Moepple
Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:38 pm
#3
When I follow your arguments, you would have been able to make a smaller post out of it by just typing "They decided to make SWG".... because that was a decision that first seem to be a good idea, but the decision about how to do it was so-so....
whatever.
I dont like some of the decisions made since launch too, but some of those points are nonsense. There were good decisions, and bad decisions. Some bad decisions were made under pressure, and we just can hope they will come up with something better someday. I dont like this "the result is worse" discussions. Analyze whats made wrong, came up with some suggestions, thats it.
To just name what you think is worse doesnt help. To just tell what you think is great doesnt help too, if you obviously lack the knowledge of comment on those things.
Read ya.
Genildor
Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:59 pm
#4
Top Five So-So Decisions: These are choices and ideas that were either good and handled poorly, bad ideas handled well, or just so-so ideas being handled so-so.
1. Player Mounts: These had great potential, so many great possibilities. However, this was handled poorly. I imagined that mounts would have a large impact requirement on certain professions (such as fencers, 2-handed swordsman, and commandos) that would improve their abilities as such that it would become very very benificial for them. Perhaps certain specials that could only be implement on mounts,and in the case of swordsman and fencer, the needed speed to catch up to ranged attackers to deal the damage necessary. The speed and specialsof which could be performed would be determined on the animal itself. In reverse, certain professions wouldhave serious benefitsthat canstop these new players mounted on the beasts (such as rifleman, and especially pikeman) that would have them be sought after for those reasons. However, as it is now, attacking on an animal makes it so specials can not be performed, all their speeds are exactly the same, and the only real use i can determine for them is as a back up for if and when your bike kicks out. Quite unfortunate.
2. Removing the Need For Camps to Call Pets/Vehicles: With this one, though there was definitly a problem with people needing the get there pets and vehicles, it wiped out the only remaining use for being a scout that i could truly believe outside of harvesting and as a pre-requisite.The problem could have been handled much better.
3. Introduction of AT-ST's as Factional Pets: I loved that AT-ST's we're going to be in game, but it wasn't good to add them as factional pets, rather then wait to add them as vehicles. Especially not without a rebel version of them. I am imperial myself, but i do understand the large imbalance it created. When a single player could kill giant krayt dragons (back in the day when nothing could tank and buffs weren't really there) with full health, and wipe out a full city of overt rebels, it was a problem.
4. Player Vehicles: This lines up along the same lines of Player Mounts, but with noticeable differences. There is no reason for anyone to get the large slow speeders rather than a swoop besides costs. And the costs really aren't that much of a problem. Had the Speeders had a form of weapon or some sort of serious travelling advantage that would make up for it's lack of speed, it would of been better. Alas, handled poorly.
5. Bio-engineer Revamp: Don't get me wrong, i know that the bio-engineers were one of the top 3 professions that NEEDED a revamp. It's just that in doing so, the developers made it so there is no real reason for a creature handler to go and get their own creatures beyond trophy purposes. The best were gotten from BE's. It destroyed a fantastic idea of baby animals and their part of the game, one that i was fascinated with at the beginning of the game. But they did do well with the bio-engineered clothes. If only it were a wider range beyond medicinal and CH purposes...
Genildor
Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:00 pm
#5
gargomell wrote:
Genildor wrote:
These items include decisions that the developers have made that, in my opinion, have changed the game in either a great, so-so, or horrible way.
Well, you type this, and then every one of your decisions listed is under the category of "great ideas". I've been playing this game since August. Please do not blow sunshine up my rear end. Are you attempting to get a free month of play or something from the Developers?
I just typed the first part. Doing it in sections.
Genildor
Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:35 pm
#6
Top 5 Horrible Decisions: These decisions have destroyed very great and balanced portions of the game. Though never intentional, it was none the less chaotic.
1. The Holo-grind:I feel this opinion is shared by many others besides myself. It ruined the economy, atleast on my server, for several months. Nearly every entertainer played AFK, many crafters did the same, and people were much more focused on getting their profession done as fast as possible rather than enjoy the gameplay. We weretold that the system to become force sensitive would be extremely challenging and indepth , and were given this instead. I know of many, many friends and players who quit thanks to the grind, having burned themselves out of playing the game. I don't blame them, because becoming a jedi meant recieving great power. However doing so required destroying the characters they really loved playing.
2. Removal of the Perma-Death on Jedi: I'm sure some jedi won't like this, but as i've said, this is my opinion, and i don't ask for agreement. With this change, there is no population control. 200,000 experience lost is no consequence when trading it for the power recieved for being a jedi.The perma-death system was a serious trade off for the power. It was a simple statement of if you want to go for this powerful profession, with much more abilities than you can get from a regular profession, if you aren't up for the challenge of maintaining and controlling it, it will be lost. Not any more.
3. Buffs: Buffs destroyedmany areasof tactical pvp, the entire system of HAM costs were wiped out, meaning that the spamming of specials was no longer an issue, and PvE became a thousand times less challenging. Over time, PvE areaswas made to adapt to the Buffs so that it became less so, now requiring buffs to get the high end things done.
4. Trust: They broke this early on. Many times, developers promised for something to happen, or to be done in a certain way, or for changes to be made, and later it didn't happen. People wanted communication and ties between the developers, and were denied.
5. Combat Medic: I'm not sure when they patch came that made combat medic a dreaded fear in PvP, but it was disasterous. People dropped like flies from someone simply pressing a single button and doing in seconds what would normally take any other profession serious effort to do against someone with similiar knowledge and experience.
thehitman
Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:50 pm
#7
you should add in the horrible decisions forgetting about all the concepts and early posts/newsletters that came out 2-3 years before the games launch, and not telling anyone why most were dropped and changed to shadows of the concepts 
gargomell
Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:57 pm
#8
Genildor wrote:
gargomell wrote:
Genildor wrote:These items include decisions that the developers have made that, in my opinion, have changed the game in either a great, so-so, or horrible way.
Well, you type this, and then every one of your decisions listed is under the category of "great ideas". I've been playing this game since August. Please do not blow sunshine up my rear end. Are you attempting to get a free month of play or something from the Developers?I just typed the first part. Doing it in sections.
Fair enough, I look forward to reading the other two sections.
Syno
Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:17 pm
#9
my top 5 is follow:
5. Jedi revamp and hologrinidng
4 Creature Handler/CM Nerf (Proffesions Revamp)
Remember when almost everyone has Creature handler? Bounty Hunter/Commando running around with their sluge great panther
3 Doctor Buff
This is probablly 1 of the most important elemt in SWG right now. Whichout Doctor Buff wecan wear full suit composite armors. Whitout docotr buff we can solo tusken fortress.
2. Vehicle
Rmember when it takes 20 to travel from Bestine to Squil Cave? The vehicle complete change the way we play SWG. We are able to travel to poi or cave in much faster speed. In GCW people raid city/base faster, people who clone will be able to reenter the fight faster.
1. Player City
Personally i thinkg player city complete ruin the SWG. Look at bestine and anchorhead. Befoe player city publish, bestine and anchohead was the more populated area in SWG. Right now, i barely see a ant in bestine/anchorhead. People moving from npc city to player city.
HimFan
Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:25 pm
#10
Nice work Genildor. I agree with you on almost every point. Also agree with Syno too.
Syno wrote:
my top 5 is follow:
5. Jedi revamp and hologrinidng
4 Creature Handler
Remember when almost everyone had Creature handler? Bounty Hunters/Commandos wererunning around with their sluge great panther.
3 Doctor Buff
This is probablly 1 of the most important elemt in SWG right now. Without Doctor Buff wecant wear full suit composite armors. Without docotr buff we cant solo tusken fortress.
2. Vehicle
Rmember when it takes 20mins to travel from Bestine to Squil Cave?Vehicles complete changed the way we play SWG. We are able to travel to apoi or caveat much faster rate. In GCW, people can raid city/base faster. People who clone will be able to reenter the fight faster.
1. Player City
Personally i think player cities complete ruined SWG. Look at bestine and anchorhead. Before theplayer city publish, bestine and anchohead were the more populated area in SWG. Right now, i barely seeanyone in bestine/anchorhead. People moved from npc city to player city.
Number 5: 100% agree. The hologrind did so much damage to this game, that it will most likely never go back. Hologrindingmade players push limits of there skills (better buffs so they can take a more beatings, better weapons to they could kill anything, better armor so they could become super man). All this added to plapersmovingto find better hunt with more xp so they could kill a profession in a week. Hologrind turned the player base into solo players.
Number 4: The good old days when everyone had a pet. I didnt think there was anything wrong with it. They were really just for PvP ownage,(again, back in the good old days) they need a way so that not everone could have a mauler. But they lead to a nerf of all pets and (again) hologrind took us up and above useingpets. Too bad the only people you see with pets now a days arethe oneswith mounts that feel bad for them.
Number 3: Buffs, cant live with them, cant live without them. The reason they became so out of balance is because everyone needed bigger better buffs to withstand the punishment of the harder plants (dathomir, lok, dantooine). But now that there are great buffs, why stay on any other planet then dathomoir, danootine, or lok?
Number 2: The vehicles system needs a good revamp also. Each bike should have ups and downs that you can see. A landspeeder going up a hill is still slower then a swoop going up across the hill. So why have a landspeeder? Once again, no needs the little guy. Bikes should have parts IMO. Make people have to work for what there bike does. There just free shuttle trips now.
Number 1: This is, by far, thesoul thing thatkilled the best times Iever hadplaying this game. Anchorhead raids was whatI lived for back in the day. No one had buffs,there was no items decay, your mind wasnt the enemies target. You died, you got back up and you did it again. It was great. Some of the old timers might remember R-TEF battles inside Anchorhead lasting hours. Just non stop battleing. No one cared who died, we all just want to keep blowing the crap out of each other for no personal gain what so ever. It was a blast. Player citys pulled everyone apart all over each planet. Now you cant find anyone. I hate riding around the "desert oasis" planet of tatooine and seeing houses all over the place. My personal opinion is that each player should only get 1 building (small, medium, large or guild hall). After that they can only place factors and harvesters with there remaining lots.
I just want whats best for the game even if we have to give up some of the things we like the most.
Gam8it
Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:01 am
#11
Genildor wrote:
5. Bio-engineer Revamp: Don't get me wrong, i know that the bio-engineers were one of the top 3 professions that NEEDED a revamp. It's just that in doing so, the developers made it so there is no real reason for a creature handler to go and get their own creatures beyond trophy purposes. The best were gotten from BE's. It destroyed a fantastic idea of baby animals and their part of the game, one that i was fascinated with at the beginning of the game. But they did do well with the bio-engineered clothes. If only it were a wider range beyond medicinal and CH purposes...
QFE
I have been very disapointed that it seems I cannot tame any babies as non-ch pets, specifically mounts
TashunkaSapa
Fri Aug 27, 2004 3:11 am
#12
Genildor wrote:
Top Five Best Decisions Made By Developers:
I would say that these might all have been "great ideas" but I'll go on to point out how each of them is fatally flawed. I think you see that, and maybe that's what you were trying to express. Allow me to go into more detail (I'm not trying to argue with you of course, just offering my perspective):
1. Player Economy: The idea of a player-driven economy is a good one, but there is one fatal flaw in the plan - the economy is not self-contained. Money is introduced to the system from mission terminals, this creates a revenue which is based upon nothing. Therefore, players cannot set the value of the credit, and constant influx of credits which have no actual worth creates the hyper-inflated economy we see today.
One might be tempted to point to the various money sinks that are intended to remove these funds from the system, but let's be honest - they don't keep up with the influx of credits and anyone who must meet these expenses factors it in to the cost of their goods or services. The only thing that has real value in the game is a player's time - and the value of that time is based upon, you guessed it: The mission terminal. Using a mission terminal is like printing your own money.
Yes, it might only cost me 425 credits for the materials needed to slice a weapon or piece of armor (and the actual cost of the resources used by the crafter is surely much less), so why do I charge 5k for a slice? Simple: I can make 200k credits per hour (or more) doing combat missions. So I need to place a value on the service that makes it worth my while to do that rather than run missions.
Despite the fact that time is the only item of determinable value in the game, it is not the thing upon which the value of a credit is based. The actual basis is resources, and the value of those resources is determined by the crafters and merchants. Again, it may only actually cost .5 cr to harvest each unit of a resource, but the merchant values it at 2 or 3 credits per in order to make it more worthwhile than running missions (see above). The crafter pays this rate for the resources and marks up his product accordingly - the cost is passed on to the customer.
So you can see that the "player-driven economy" is actually a "mission terminal-based economy" and that's the underlying reason for the outrageous inflation in the game.
2. Player vs. Player: As much as we'd all like to think that tactics and imagination are the deciding factors in this part of the game, the sad fact is that it's still a game of which template is the best. Is it the Rifleman/Combat Medic, or the Brawler Defense Stacker or etc. etc.... The reason that we see the rise of templates in PvP is because professions are terribly imbalanced. Sure, the dominant templates have changed from time to time, but that is because the Devs react to imbalances by nerfing a class rather than strenghtening the others. The only possible end result of such a philosophy will be a game full of useless professions, with the exception of whatever one the Devs feel needs "special attention" at that moment.
3. Player Cities: An idea that appeals to many, as it gives players a sense of ownership of their surroundings and a "place to call home". The problem, of course, is that it's led to terrible urban sprawl. I think there are a number of factors that contribute to that: First, the number of cities allowed on each planet is far too high. Second, the locations in which these cities may be placed is insufficiently regulated, so areas of interest in the game are now surrounded by over-developed areas of commerce and residence (consider Niagara Falls). No matter what server you go to, I'm sure you can find a city near the Krayt Graveyard, one near the Force Crystal Caves, etc.
Next, player-run cities detract from the importance of the static cities. I remember Mos Eisley as a vibrant place when I began playing - the cantina always had entertainers, creature handlers were selling pets in front of the bank and player commerce was going on in an atmosphere reminiscent of a bazaar or market. Then player cities came and the static cities became ghost towns used only for their starports.
The final problem is one of management - players who have left the game often leave behind abandoned residences, shops and vendors. Urban renewal is impossible because no one else has the ability to remove these unused edifices, so player cities face the choice of becoming either stagnant or overdeveloped. A better and more immersive solution may have been to design the static cities such that players could occupy many of the structures, even if the upkeep were greater. The important cities would take on new life as they would be the sites for homes and shops for may players. This would reduce the number and need for player cities, such that those cities that did arise would be of greater significance than they are currently.
4. Player Factional Bases: Fun for the same reasons people like player cities; however they are pointless given the irrelevance of the Galactic Civil War to this game. There is no point in really owning a base except to have it, there is no point in attacking a base except to deny it to the enemy and there is no point in defending a base except to keep the enemy from destroying it. The base itself is of no real relevance, nor is the outcome of the conflict. I left Planetside because I felt the struggle in that game was an exercise in futility, but I now see that their system is more elegant and relevant than SWG's - by orders of magnitude. I think I might actually like a Planetside-based style to the GCW, where bases change hands and the "front" in the war is thus determined.
5. Profession Revamps: I have to say, seeing how the Devs took some of the most thankless professions and breathed new life into them, this is a great thing... when it's actually done. But it's my opinion that this should be one of the highest priorities in the game - each profession should have equivalent appeal and utility, and each should have something unique to offer to the game. As it stands, this is a lower priority to the Developers than all of the "optional" content they have introduced. In short, shiny new toys are cold comfort to someone with a lousy job.
I thank anyone who's taken the time to read through all that I just wrote, I hope that I've helped to illustrate the potential this game really has - potential that has sadly gone unrealized due to design and development decisions that range from poorly-considered, to misguided, to downright whimsical.
Shaan'ti Hokai (Kauri) 
Mors_Mortis
Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:12 am
#13
I sometimes wonder how many of you out there in SWG land really know what it's like to be in a workplace where there's pressure from the top for you to do one thing and then pressure from your clientele to do another and pressure from within to do the things that you would rather do. The devs. have a tough job and no one ever really appreciates what they have done. I love this game and have enjoyed it from the get go (i've been playing since July 2003 (with a few breaks here and there)). I also remember the good ole days of pvp in anchorhead, the battles in front of bases hoping to god that we could keep our guilds investment together, the long hikes to get anywhere, and all of these things were great. I also believe that most of the changes have been great as well. Realize that the devs are trying to please everyone, the problem is that noone is ever pleased. Not because the devs aren't trying but because noone ever takes the time to realize what they really have on their hands. The devs are trying to please the 12 year old who likes the fast past action as well as the 35 year old who prefers the slower paced action like the games they remember from the good ole days (i'm sort of inbetween at 26).
I must say that i did enjoy this post though, it was a good idea to put out your opinion of some the good, the so-so, and the bad of the game. i like the way you put it across to:you said it was just your opinion. And of course this is only my opinion on everything. I think this is a great game, I've enjoyed it and spent countless hours on it. sure there have been things that could've been better. sure there are things that can be better now. but isn't that the case with most things in life. there is a quote that goes something like this: when we criticize another, it says nothing of that other person, only of our own need to be critical. sometimes try and look at things through the eyes of the devs. who have most of their clients complaining about something (usually the same thing but from different ends (like a jedi wanting more powers and a non-jedi saying they already have too much)) and probably have their bosses on their @$$es as well. enough of my stupid ramblings and preaching. just give people a break and stop your whining.
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