Game Guides Archive

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GrafvonSoden wrote:

You answerd me in person, so I'm reciprocating.

Something else you may want to consider is that the doc charging a little more than you for buffs is able to outbid you for SEAs that give him/her the 11th or 12th medicine experimental point. This will enable the doc to make better buff packs with the same resources as you. You will become known for CHEAP buffs, but the other doc becomes known for GOOD buffs. And when the warriors are fighting in pitched battles, which buffs do you think they'll remember with fondness? The Cheap ones, or the Good ones ?

But please dont worry so much about this. Just as the Holocrons came down in prices when demand dropped, so will buffs. But right now they are an integral part of the "High End" game for combatants. That in itself makes them a value commodity, not a sales item.

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Wow.

Thanks for a decent post. I never had the chance to pick up that additional +15 to get the two extra points, but I make good packs ~2450 for 3 hours (with food). It's becoming more difficult as the spawns shift but something good will come down the line.

I do have PVP packs and Normal packs. PVP will hit 2700s in Player Cities, 3000 if it's a Janta Pack. (With Food and A Medical City Bonus) Normal pack are 2200-2400 for 3 hours, that's more than enough for PVEing, anything higher is a waste unless you you are hunting Pearls/Crystals (Elders/Kryats) And at "Tips" people will frequent me more every three hours than the 2500 for 3.5 hours for 15-20k.

Pay what you want, I'm not telling anyone what to do.

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DeQuosaek wrote:

Not our ships!

(shameless plug)

Visit Honest Dan's Starships while in the Bria galaxyon Corellia!

Tier 0 [Z-95, TIE-LD, Scyk] ONLY 5K!!!
Tier 1 [Y-wing, TIE-F, Dunelizard] 25K
Tier 2 [Y-wing LP, TIE-I/N, Kihraxz/Kimogila] 75K
Tier 3 [X-Wing, TIE-B/TIE-I, Ixiyen] 150K
Tier 4 [A-Wing, TIE-Adv, Rihxyrk] 250K
Tier 5 [Master Ships] 600K

Just outside Coronet at 588 -5148

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That's awesome, I got bullied into changing my prices, my friends think I get taken advantage of. They were: Nothing/20k/40k/80k/100/200k but oh well.

Great prices!

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DeQuosaek wrote:

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Darksfallen wrote:

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DeQuosaek wrote:

HA HA HA HA HA!

Hehehehehe

Ok, some of the main things you do not take into account are...

1.) The spawns of specific items like Lokian Wild Wheat are often sub par andbuff packsrequire many specific named resources. For example a few of the spawns right now are as follows (on Bria):

Lokian Wild Wheat: OQ - 612 PE - 356 DR - 893
Tatooine Fiberplast: OQ - 780 DR - 320

Those 2 things alone will keep you from making very good buff packs. You're paying for a Doctor's constant work and running around from planet to planet gathering these resources for months before being able to make a good, solid buff pack.

If you read any of my responces, I made not reference to what time frame this would take. I still have a Class 4 Liquid Fuel from the 2nd month of the game. (Seconds spawn)

I understand that you didn't take into account time, but I believe it should be counted as part of the price. Not accounting for it islike selling something at a store and not taking into account the cost of overhead. The time it takes a Doctor to gather the resources and make components is part of the job and is worth something IMHO.

But waiting for a spawn to happen is not time consuming...

2.) Large animals like Bolles may have decent amounts of Herbivore meat, but often times it is very low quality. As an example, right now the Bolles have Herbivore meat with the amazing OQ of 147. (on Bria) You pay for the constant watching, waiting and hunting for months to get a good spawn of Herbivore meat. The best spawn of Herbivore meat on all of Bria right now is only OQ - 669 and PE - 573. That's not going to make a very good buff pack.

Anything can spawn good or bad, Bolles are a great place for Bulk herb meat when it spawns. Some of the best stuff in awhile spawned on Naboo some months back. (Corbantis)

The timea Doctor spends out of the game looking at SWGCraft.com and SWGCreatures.com and the time spent hunting (sometimes many many hours) is worth something IMHO.

I look forever it seems some times. But the 320 seconds it takes to see if something is in existance is invaluable to me. I have a huge time schedule and try to budget the time I get to play well and have fun. Gone are the days of manually check a planet for spawns. (the inorganic surveyor reward from the village is awesome btw)

3.) Many times the good meat ends up spawning only on the little critters, on Tatooine or Corellia. So after killing 200 Durnis you have maybe 2,000 units of Herbivore meat. That's a lot of work and a big time pain in the butt. You're paying for the Doctor's time and much effort. If they have to buy the meat, it can go for anywhere from 75 cpu to crazy amounts like 250 cpu. The Avian meat is worse than the Herbivore meat in this way since fewer types of animals have it. The best avian meat on Bria right now has very good stats but spawns on critters only on Tatooine and the only Avian Meat critters on Tatooine are Nunas which are under level 10, so you get very small amounts of meat from them.

Again as I mentioned several times before I know all about Avian, I'm a Doc, been one since Beta, I know how difficult it is. You're throwing time in my face when I specifically stated before, that it would take time. I get my own meat or my partners do, it doesn't cost me anything.

It costs time, and time spent gathering resources and hunting hundreds of little critters might be fun for you, butmany Doctorsprobably don'tfind it particularly fun and that justifies a bit of the price. Or in other words: Time is money.

Like I said you have to do what you have to, but it is doable. Or wait until it hits Dath or Yavin. I'm not saying you have to do either but just saying.

4.) It takes a lot of game time maintaining the harvesters, hunting for resources (probably the most time consuming), and crafting the components in factories.Doctors have to literally work for months before they can make a good buff pack. You're mainly paying for the game timethey spend doing all of this while you are having fun playing the game.

It takes some time but not alot of time. I manange many many harvesters every 10 days. I know what time goes into it. Looking for specific spawns, 5-6 resources, is NOT time consuming. SWGCrafters, and the spawns come far apart, not all at the same time. There is very little effort in it.

If you only manage your many harvesters once every ten days you will miss some spawns completely and your harvesters will end up gathering nothing for many a day on several occasions... Looking forhighconcentrations of specific resources across several planets takes several hours and travel money to boot. If you count several hours of searching for a good spot that will also accomodate your heavy harvesters NOT time consuming then I guess we'll just have to disagree about that point.

I don't miss anything usually, most of the time organics and something of the time Inorganics will last longer than 10days. I said 10 days because that's how often I put maint and power in, 20k of each is 11days power, 10 days maint. I stop by a planet and check the surveying tool quite often.

There's much more to consider than just the number of resources it takes to make the packs.

I understand and acknowledged that but everyone seems to have a different reason as to why, which is funny. I can't make the packs without each part of these so I twiddle my fingers until it's all mined, I don't understand where the time consuming comes from?

The fact that you cannot make a decent pack until after gathering resources (spending several hours looking, placing harvesters and maintaining them) and huinting for several hours more and waiting several months for good spawns of the resources you need is where the time consuming comes from. The first buff packs I made were crap. That's all I could possibly make at the time. I charged significantly less for buffs because of that fact and made much less money, but it was enough to keep my harvesters going... just barely. The months of spending money to get the resources with noincome is not easy to do unless you have some serious combat skills or are independantly wealthy.

I've never been wealthy but it's doable, slowly but doable. Getting specific resources for buff packs is not time consuming, there are only a few of them and usually do not spawn at the same time, very little maint is requred to keep them going. Gnort Missions!

Understand also that there are people out there that sell a buff of 2000 for 2.5 hours for 12-15k too, and they sell, you don't need THE best, though it you want a name for yourself it's good to make good good stuff.

Yes, but to make good good packs you must be very vigilant in gathering resources, to the point where doingso is hard work in the game. Most combat professions who get buffed shouldn't mind paying a little more for the buffs because they are paying for the Doctor's hard work. I know you seem to find it fun, but you can't really say it's easy.

It's not hard, but I guess it's not easy either, but it's not 15k per buff set hard I don't think, personally.

Plus, you mentioned something about not needing Bivoli. Taking Bivoli can help a buff pack that is not the best become much better. I had some buff packs that only gave a 1848 buff earlier and once I took Bivoli it raised them to a bit over 2000. That's a pretty substantial difference.

I mentioned not HAVING to have it, I personally don't live without it.

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Oh, also I want to add, good job with all of the numbers and stats!

And, I guess this warrants mentioning... I'm not a full time Master Doc. I don't sit around and buff for hours on end very often (which also is not very fun - and is worth a little bit of money) When I do buff, I usually charge9k. My packs still aren't the best after much time gathering resources, but I have to admit I haven't been concentrating solely on Doctor, so I may have missed a few things here and there.

Thanks! And Docs are good Docs.

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DeQuosaek wrote:

4.) It takes a lot of game time maintaining the harvesters, hunting for resources (probably the most time consuming), and crafting the components in factories. Doctors have to literally work for months before they can make a good buff pack. You're mainly paying for the game time they spend doing all of this while you are having fun playing the game.

There's much more to consider than just the number of resources it takes to make the packs.

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So crafters don't have fun playing the game? Do you think someone is playing and paying for something if they feel it's boring and tedious instead of fun?
(If they are, they should consider another game or a change of professions)

Another note: I took up doc on farstar a few months ago, just for myself and to see how much money could be made buffing at starports with my own packs. There was a good spawn of avian on corellia at the time, and a week after that a not as good, but still good spawn on yavin too.
I could make a run of 50 2300 packs after 3-4 days hunting avian and shopping at vendors for the other resources, only thing i payed more than 5 cpu for was the class 4 wich i believe was sold at 10cpu. So it is definately doable without "literally working for months", albeit with a little luck and dedication.

Message Edited by Grisbilen on 12-02-2004 03:20 AM

I see what your saying. The downside to it is this. 1. if people weren't willing to pay 10-15k for buffs, there would be some number of docs that would drop. I feel personally that this number would be significant. What would happen then is, the remaining docs, would control the market, and could easily drive the price UP. I'd say something like 75-90% of the combat oriented people in this game use buffs. Thats a huge demand. Doctor has to be a lucrative profession for people to be willing to supply the service. I'd say honestly if doc went the chef route and became a sell them the item they do the work thing, the price could easily drop to say a cushy 5-7k. I'd say alot of the overhead is simply the sheer boredom of sitting in one place, clicking my macro, keeping my eye on my bivoli timer, etc.

There is already a shortage of buffing docs. Ever see a line 12-25 people deep? At 16seconds x6 buffs, x25 people, thats a 40 minute line. People already are willing to pay 50k to avoid the wait, which is a direct result of demand exceeding supply. Cut the number of docs by say 33%, then watch the line go to 1.5 hours for buffs, then you'll see people with alot of cash paying 100k or more to skip line. Which then leaves poor people in the crappy position of wait, do without, or get doc and do it themselves.

So while the actual material cost of the buff isn't as outrageous as it would seem, even though we pay more per resource than any other profession, its not the material that is the cost. Its the supply and demand of the economy that drives the cost. I don't forsee the price of buffs dipping below 10k without some developmental game changes altering the supply/demand factor for the service. People can argue the price of buffs, but bottom line is, pay, do without, or do it yourself.

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jassi007 wrote:
I see what your saying. The downside to it is this. 1. if people weren't willing to pay 10-15k for buffs, there would be some number of docs that would drop. I feel personally that this number would be significant. What would happen then is, the remaining docs, would control the market, and could easily drive the price UP. I'd say something like 75-90% of the combat oriented people in this game use buffs. Thats a huge demand. Doctor has to be a lucrative profession for people to be willing to supply the service. I'd say honestly if doc went the chef route and became a sell them the item they do the work thing, the price could easily drop to say a cushy 5-7k. I'd say alot of the overhead is simply the sheer boredom of sitting in one place, clicking my macro, keeping my eye on my bivoli timer, etc.

There is already a shortage of buffing docs. Ever see a line 12-25 people deep? At 16seconds x6 buffs, x25 people, thats a 40 minute line. People already are willing to pay 50k to avoid the wait, which is a direct result of demand exceeding supply. Cut the number of docs by say 33%, then watch the line go to 1.5 hours for buffs, then you'll see people with alot of cash paying 100k or more to skip line. Which then leaves poor people in the crappy position of wait, do without, or get doc and do it themselves.

So while the actual material cost of the buff isn't as outrageous as it would seem, even though we pay more per resource than any other profession, its not the material that is the cost. Its the supply and demand of the economy that drives the cost. I don't forsee the price of buffs dipping below 10k without some developmental game changes altering the supply/demand factor for the service. People can argue the price of buffs, but bottom line is, pay, do without, or do it yourself.

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True and the issue that we see comes back to one that can't be fixed the the proposed fix.

What people are doing to get around this (the shortage of Docs): Buff Bots for someone/Guild/Friends

Proposed Fix to Buff Bots: Remove Recursive Macros

The Problem will just get worse. I don't know a Fix, but I do know that not many people play Docs for the reason Docs were put in the game, they play them to make money, or be a crafter. I'm not saying ALL Docs, so don't jump down my throat, but why play them when the healing that you need can be acheved much easier and cheeper in the SPs with Medic?

My Proposed Fix: Let MIND be the limiter and remove Wound Treatment Speed all together in respect to Buffs.... How would this really impact the game negitively, other than perhaps recovery time in PVP? This would Fix Buff lines....

Message Edited by Darksfallen on 12-01-2004 09:13 PM

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Mordeth123 wrote:
Lets see what price you have to pay to make good buffpacks on Chimaera(this is top notch):

Avian Meat - 300cpu
Reactive Gas - 15cpu

Tatooine Fiberplast - 40cpu
Wild wheat - 5-60cpu

Dolovite Iron - 100cpu
Domesticated Oats - 20-30cpu

Herbivore Meat - 100cpu
Class IV LPF - 85cpu

Try do you maths again with these prices

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Here here, FarStar is no different ive seen good quality resources going for these prices and higher

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I don't have to, I gather my own of each. You are illustrating an issue with the prices based on the current prices of Buffs. These prices are like this because the Doctors charge so much, not vice versa.

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If you start at scratch and gather resources your packs will most likely be so bad that noone wants them, it's a harsh world
I spent months gathering good enough resources to start producing buffpacks that was good enough for sale.
On my vendor I have low-quality buffpacks aswell, they are very cheap(90k a set, compared to 200k for a quality set), but they don't sell at all.
Your maths works good in theory, but in the "real-world" it works different

Message Edited by Mordeth123 on 12-01-2004 09:05 PM

Message Edited by GrafvonSoden on 12-01-2004 02:40 PM

also btw...

You open a big can of worms with your post...

good luck with it