Game Guides Archive

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Oss_Wilum wrote:

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pussycat wrote:

Well, you seem to think that non-powergamers should be happy with the little crumbs in the game, while the powergamers enjoy the filet mignon. And that is a *real* slap in the face to everybody who plays the game and pays the same monthly fee that you do. Just because you spend more time than everybody else playing an online game shouldn't put you in a category above everybody else, one in which people who have full-time jobs and family obligations are forbidden. This is a game... it is not a meritocracy, that goes against the very ideal of a free and equal society that America was founded on.

Now, nowhere on this thread or elsewhere have I ever said it should be something that is "easy" even for casual players. No, I enjoy the fact that it's a challenge and I would like it to continue being the most challenging dungeon in the game. And even after literally dozens of very successful DWB runs, including several successful crafting ones post-CU... after completing the foreman's quest in two live servers, having working rebreathers in two live servers, having done both factional missions, having killed both overlords dozens of times... I still say, turn it down a notch, make it so that more of the player base can enjoy it... Even after turning it down a notch, it will continue to be the most challenging dungeon in the game. And slightly increase the drop of Mando components as well as other loot for folks who help out but don't want a crafted item from the DWB.

People pay money to make this game possible, so more power to the people!

The DWB should be turned down a notch to make it less elitist. Something that benefits the player base at large *outweights* what only benefits a small minority of players... who by far and large tend to be selfish and egocentric.

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If someone spends more time in the game, most certainly that should put them above everyone else and it always has in every RPG.

RPG = loot and gear = Time

every RPG is basd on the notion of improving your character and getting high level items and weapons so you can accomplish high level content. Just how it is. It is most certainly a meritocracy or a level 1 would do the same damage as a level 80 and have the same variety of weapons.

Its a game indeed, but not every game is the same. everyone may be on an equal footing in Monopoly or Chutes and Ladders, but play tennis and the guy who spends 10 hours a week on the court is gonna beat the guy who played mario tennis one time at a friend's house. So the same it is with RPGs where time invested allows you to proceed onto high and higher eschelons of the game. it happens here, it happens in guildwars, it happens in EQ2, it happens in WoW, it happens in Halo deathmatches, it happens in Quake, it happens so many places.

America was not founded on free and equal in all respects. it was founded on free and equal under the law. Everyone in SWG CAN do the DWB if they choose, no one is preventing them, but it is their own responsibility to raise themselves to the level of skill and knowledge of the bunker that it requires.

the DWB does not need to be taken down a notch, anyone who wants to do it should be prepared to raise themselves a notch, or else what is the point? to kill a mob who wears a cool looking armor who is really just the same as some dathomir nightsister trash? To lower the difficulty because some people find it a challenge isn't broadening the experience, it's cheapening it. If some people find it a challenge, it's because they have not yet progressed to the level of character for which it was designed. the DWB was built to cater to the needs of elites and powergamers who couldn't find interest in the family-fare of the game's bulk of caves.

The DWB is a place FOR the elite of SWG to have fun, it's a playground FOR THEM, and we enjoy it immensely as it is.

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Well, you are absolutely wrong about that... technically, I would be considered the "elite" when it comes to people doing the DWB, I know it like the palm of my hand and have been on hundreds of runs... and, no, I do not think the current mob levels are appropriate as they are; it goes way beyond the talent of an individual; it is a group effort and as such it's a little bit more than simply having a good CL80 combat toon and going to the DWB.

The only people who will defend the DWB as it is are those who will benefit disapproportionately from it in its current state -- the powergamers and the uberelite. The ones that can afford to spend hours, days, weeks, even, camping and farming the DWB, to get the best loot. And camping the place is an exploit, just like camping the Aa'kuan cave was an exploit (and which is why the Aa'kuan cave has been nerfed).

If you defend the DWB as it is, you are trying to draw a line, simply because you are on the side of the line that benefits the most. But everybody in the game pays the same fees; and the majority of the players are not powergamers; therefore as a powergamer, you benefit from a game that gets most of its income from the casual players. Just that you want to have the very best loot. To me, that is leeching off others.

Bringing down the levels on the DWB is not cheapening it, it is making it more accessible to the broader player base, the players who make up the bulk of SOE clients, and whose monthly payments help make the game possible (even if it is the powergamers that leech off everybody else). You only defend the status quo (and passionately) because you are in a position to benefit substantially...

So please stop the condescending "you need to work hard at it" nonsense... I am leading daily DWB runs and doing so extremely well, if only because I get to help other players who may want badges, or a stabilizer, or a chance to do the Foreman's Quest. My greatest satisfaction comes from helping others; and still, there is little doubt in my mind that the DWB should be brought down a notch... You are probably horrifed by the tought of a less-than-uberelite group coming to your precious DWB and stepping on what you consider your turf. There is no reason to be; at least, there shouldn't be, to anyone who has some motivation other than greed driving them.

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Oss_Wilum wrote:

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pussycat wrote:

Well, you are absolutely wrong about that... technically, I would be considered the "elite" when it comes to people doing the DWB, I know it like the palm of my hand and have been on hundreds of runs... and, no, I do not think the current mob levels are appropriate as they are; it goes way beyond the talent of an individual; it is a group effort and as such it's a little bit more than simply having a good CL80 combat toon and going to the DWB.

The only people who will defend the DWB as it is are those who will benefit disapproportionately from it in its current state -- the powergamers and the uberelite. The ones that can afford to spend hours, days, weeks, even, camping and farming the DWB, to get the best loot. And camping the place is an exploit, just like camping the Aa'kuan cave was an exploit (and which is why the Aa'kuan cave has been nerfed).

If you defend the DWB as it is, you are trying to draw a line, simply because you are on the side of the line that benefits the most. But everybody in the game pays the same fees; and the majority of the players are not powergamers; therefore as a powergamer, you benefit from a game that gets most of its income from the casual players. Just that you want to have the very best loot. To me, that is leeching off others.

Bringing down the levels on the DWB is not cheapening it, it is making it more accessible to the broader player base, the players who make up the bulk of SOE clients, and whose monthly payments help make the game possible (even if it is the powergamers that leech off everybody else). You only defend the status quo (and passionately) because you are in a position to benefit substantially...

So please stop the condescending "you need to work hard at it" nonsense... I am leading daily DWB runs and doing so extremely well, if only because I get to help other players who may want badges, or a stabilizer, or a chance to do the Foreman's Quest. My greatest satisfaction comes from helping others; and still, there is little doubt in my mind that the DWB should be brought down a notch... You are probably horrifed by the tought of a less-than-uberelite group coming to your precious DWB and stepping on what you consider your turf. There is no reason to be; at least, there shouldn't be, to anyone who has some motivation other than greed driving them.

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The stuff in yellow is stuff i don't care about and which i didn't bring into the conversation.

the neon green is something i agree with and think that it is correct that way.

the off green is flat out false. it is no more an exploit to stay in one spot killing something than it is to stay in one spot crafting something or staying in one spot dancing. the reason the aakuan cave was nerfed was because people were setting afk robots down there to kill the easy spawns for reliable skill tapes, the DWB is completely different in so many reguards

now, you seem to think that there's some group of players that has gotten fabulously wealthy off the DWB. well, no, not on kettemoor, not that i've seen and not on any other servers. most stuff crafted is never sold unless the character is sold on ebay, it's epic and sentimentally valuable stuff to everyone who gets it.

then you say powergamers leech off others. leeching implies stealing, if we're somehow, through dishonorable means, taking the achievements of people to make our bank accounts or cache of weapons or armor, or preventing them from doing the same, then show me how.

the dark red is something that just doesn't make sense to me. you don't feel that things on the order of jetpacks and mandalorian armor, things which have so special a place in the hearts of star wars fans and iconic, perhaps more than jedi, as well as the identifier and mystique of possibly THE most popular character, Boba Fett, should take hard work and determination?

I didn't get good at the DWB by being rich or having the best stuff, in the CU world, everything is pretty much the same weapon and armorwise, and the differences between weapons dissolve even further at the high end of PvE. I got good at the DWB by reading the guides in the forum, studying the maps, and planning things out. I take whoever i can from my guild on any given trip and take myself out of the running on all loot drops. that includes level 75s with no healing ability, that includes MLS, MDEF jedi, or MLS/partial defender jedi like myself.

In this last part you are personally attacking me and everyone else who has ever done a DWB run except yourself, so you can just step off b!tch, because no one gives a crap about how holy you are and how devoted to marxism and oppression of the talented and gifted you are.

To put simply my opinion on the DWB:

If it were intended for joe schmoe, it would have been designed as such.

it's intended for those who know what they're doing, and it's designed and functions that way.

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OK, first of all, if you are using the b-word, you are flaming. That is not acceptable behavior in these forums, and you should know better.

The DWB is too hard as it is right now even for the average CL80, by this I mean more casual players and not those who are uber eleet powergamers. It is not too hard for me personally, most of the time I can put together a super solid group and get through all the rooms swiftly and safely. That does not mean that the DWB in its current state is something good for the player base, and like I said again (because it is the truth) only those who stand to benefit will defend the current status quo. You stand to benefit if you farm the DWB to sell the components and other loot, you stand to benefit if you want bragging rights to being one of the few people on the server with a jetpack and/or Mando helmet, or if you want your guild to be the only one on the server with a full Mando suit; when you are benefiting from a situation most people will *automatically* not want others to benefit likewise... greed is a big part of human nature, and it's not a surprise that George Lucas chose to put that message so explicitly in the movies...

You cannot tell me that anyone here who has defended the status quo re DWB didn't stand to benefit in some way from it not being more accessible for the wider player base. It is only the selfish who want things for themselves but don't want others to have access to the sam opportunities.

That is why I support 100% reducing the mob levels in the DWB and slightly tweaking the drop rates so that the loot is not so rare, in the long run it will benefit SOE because more people who are already playing will be happier, and a lot who may be considering joining the game will have an added incentive to do so.

Honestly, getting a Mando armor shouldn't take longer than it does to become a full-template Jedi, the Jedi have it much easier than BH's. Not that the Mando armor can only be used by BH, I believe there are 4 professions that can wear it, but I digress..

It's just a game... it isn't a meritocracy, it's not a career.... you don't have to defend every advantage and/or superiority that you have to the death... let everyone enjoy the same stuff you enjoy, that's good sportsmanship.

New DWB map

I had a simple question for you DWB experts:

When I go to the first key terminal/spawn location, I can spawn security but Rageon Vart doesn't spawn! Does he spawn once all the security has been beaten?

Thanks for a great (even if a little out of date) guide.

he'll spawn after the last bloodguard

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Baccarat wrote:
I had a simple question for you DWB experts:

When I go to the first key terminal/spawn location, I can spawn security but Rageon Vart doesn't spawn! Does he spawn once all the security has been beaten?

Thanks for a great (even if a little out of date) guide.

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I think you are at the wrong door. When you say security is it Battle Droids or blood guards?

This map has already been updated. We now have 3 updates to this. I would say there are enough maps and yours is behind the times on updates.

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Baccarat wrote:
I had a simple question for you DWB experts:

When I go to the first key terminal/spawn location, I can spawn security but Rageon Vart doesn't spawn! Does he spawn once all the security has been beaten?

Thanks for a great (even if a little out of date) guide.

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Furia - this is a stale thread. I posted a significant update here: http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=game_guides&message.id=298467

As for your specific question, Rageon always spawns for us - but you do normally have to kill the few "scouts" that spawn first. He spawns in the room opposite the door you enter, and generally comes right out into the main room.

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AM3 wrote:

pls some1

Open to me "Pump terminals" secret =) (last part of miner Quest)

thx

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Click the link in my signature labeled "DWB Guide". Good luck!

Message Edited by Ejai on 09-26-2005 08:28 AM

There now is a shorter way actually to complete the foremans quest and you can have everyone in your group do it at once now. however, I do not think this is working as intented...