Game Guides Archive
Thread: Friday Feature: Part 2 August 19th Astromech Stats: Profession Popularity
Sedoo
Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:27 am
#222
Tiggs wrote:
First =)
ATTENTION TIGGS!
"first" posts are a waste of my bandwidth and time. They add nothing to the discussion. Please refrain from doing them in the future.
ObsidianWrath
Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:38 pm
#223
--Least-played to most-played.--
Squad Leader
Chef
Force Sensitive - Crafting
Droid Engineer
Ranger
Bio Engineer
Musician
Armorsmith
Image Designer
Shipwright
Weaponsmith
Architect
Force Wielder
Fencer
Tailor
Pikeman
Dancer
Commando
Force Defender
Force Enhancer
Force Healer
Light Saber Mastery
Creature Handler
Smuggler
Swordsman
Combat Medic
Merchant
Doctor
Politician
Carbineer
Force Sensitive - Senses
Teras Kasi
Pistoleer
Rifleman
Force Sensitive - Reflexes
Bounty Hunter
Force Sensitive - Combat
Chef
Force Sensitive - Crafting
Droid Engineer
Ranger
Bio Engineer
Musician
Armorsmith
Image Designer
Shipwright
Weaponsmith
Architect
Force Wielder
Fencer
Tailor
Pikeman
Dancer
Commando
Force Defender
Force Enhancer
Force Healer
Light Saber Mastery
Creature Handler
Smuggler
Swordsman
Combat Medic
Merchant
Doctor
Politician
Carbineer
Force Sensitive - Senses
Teras Kasi
Pistoleer
Rifleman
Force Sensitive - Reflexes
Bounty Hunter
Force Sensitive - Combat
=====================
Yeah, baby! Working as intended! 
Thanks for putting us at the *top* of the list so that we cry less.
Please do not forget about that thread in the Squad Leader forums, Tiggs. You may be our only hope.
ObsidianWrath
Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:14 pm
#224
ZalokOnan wrote:
Sorry, but Im not buying it. Jedi can convince themselves all they want about the fact they deserve to be "uber," but that doesn't necessarily make it so. While there is some merit that the players are somewhat "heroic," there is nothing in that argument to suggest that some deserve to be larger heroes than others. You've put time into a profession in order to belong to the rare, and Im sorry if you feel that means you need to be able to kill everyone who didn't, but none of us signed up to be anyone else's b**ch. Problem is this:
Problem: Jedi are better than non-jedi.
Solution: Become a jedi.
Anyone who can't see how this is a symptom of viral thinking needs to put down their sabers, take a step back and think about all the other people who play the game for once.
You are now my hero.
Canon-wise, there are supposed to be only a small handful of Jedi left alive, even in the EU. Now, if SOE and the Jedi community wanted to make the argument that all of the Jedi are "new padawans" who came about after the collapse of the Jedi Council and lack the proper training, guiding, and wisdom of any who, say ... fly out to get personal training from Yoda ::Cough-cough.:: ... then I would be fine with it.
Personally, I think even full-templated Jedi should be relegated to the station of "Sub-Padawan" because they lack the training of a proper Master in their craft. As such, I believe that all Jedi should be able to have their butts whipped by Novice Dancers with sparkle props.
If you want to make a "heroic" Jedi, make it rely exclusively on FRS. If there is only one Dark and Light "Master" on a server who can run around beating the crap out of full groups of PVPers, I could care less. But there need to be checks and balances. Make every FRS rank a limited number *per server*, and base your progression (and thus power) around your ability to prove yourself in the new dog-eat-dog world of the Jedi and Sith. Also, make those on top of the pyramid perch on a very slippery slope. Implement ceremonial rites and "challenges" even from one's own faction (Light / Dark) to progress. Failure to meet a challenge results in a loss of prestige.
Something like that could actually be *cool*, for a change. Just because you threw enough grenades at Baznitches because you don't work or go to school doesn't entitle you to be able to beat the crap out of anyone else by default. You better *earn* it against a level playing field ... specifically, YOUR OWN.
Just my two cents.
MsNiL
Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:46 pm
#225
It's already official that the next expansion is not about Jedi, and Chef and Rangers have an use at least. rotw had 1 crystal for Jedi, that was it. Now there will finally be at least some content for us to do with our time.
AragornSoS wrote:
But that's the point MsNil. They are rare MASTERIES. They perhaps are NOT so rare "dabbled". I believe they were all significantly higher on the list when it was just a case of "who has a little bit of profession X"... whereas professions like Chef, DE, Ranger and SL pretty much stay at the absolute bottom of the list no matter WHAT. The folks who play them are few, and are likely fairly dedicated. Hard to say without actual numbers, but I'd wager that most that take up those professions probably master them, probably not TOO many dabblers there. Sure there are some, but not as many as take up a line of Force Healing as a Jedi (which seems to be be a defacto "Standard" in jedi templates these days, right)?
Either way, you ARE right... we are all rare, and those who chose to Master rare professions (not just Jedi, but ALL rare professions) are not shown the "dev love" as much as, say, BH and Jedi (and that's likely Jedi LS and Defender more than others). I'd disagree with your claim that Devs don't care for Jedi in the game tho - it isn't Chefs or Rangers who are being hyped as the single biggest selling point on the next expansion, they aren't the ones who all the new players seem to want to play. I'm not getting a special "lava trap" as top billing for all the cool Rangers who want to play ToOW...Jedi make this world go round. Either current jedi, or all the new folks who are FS and WANT Jedi. I'm personally not in that crowd, but I think it IS a fair statement that there is a large number of folks drawn to this game who DO want jedi... unfortunately.
Theese disciplines arent masterised like Defender/Lightsaber in the list becouse they are all broken and pretty useless today.
KapowBzapp
Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:27 pm
#226
Since anyone can become a Jedi, they need to be unexceptional as a combat profession. You can't have it both ways.
If a CL80 Jedi is inherently stronger than any other CL80 player, PvP will only be Jedi. If they are comparable, then only the best players will dominate, as they should. The FRS can give a dedicated few the chance to be stronger temporarily.
And why not? Let Jedi be a playstyle choice. Jedi do not "deserve" any special advantages for the time invested into unlocking Padawan and grinding XP. Non-jedi pay the same monthly fee, albeit for only one character, and many contribute far more to the MMO world in terms of crafting, leadership, entertainment, and roleplay.
In the prequels nearly all of the Jedi were killed by non-Jedi. Approaching a 1:1 parity among combat characters, Jedi or not, is the best approach SOE can take.
It's facetious to ask if a master Weaponsmith should also be comparable. That's not a combat profession.
If a CL80 Jedi is inherently stronger than any other CL80 player, PvP will only be Jedi. If they are comparable, then only the best players will dominate, as they should. The FRS can give a dedicated few the chance to be stronger temporarily.
And why not? Let Jedi be a playstyle choice. Jedi do not "deserve" any special advantages for the time invested into unlocking Padawan and grinding XP. Non-jedi pay the same monthly fee, albeit for only one character, and many contribute far more to the MMO world in terms of crafting, leadership, entertainment, and roleplay.
In the prequels nearly all of the Jedi were killed by non-Jedi. Approaching a 1:1 parity among combat characters, Jedi or not, is the best approach SOE can take.
It's facetious to ask if a master Weaponsmith should also be comparable. That's not a combat profession.
ZalokOnan
Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:40 pm
#227
[I agree to a point. We dissagree on solutions. I would rather we find ways to make the game more fun for everyone. Nerfs seldom accomplish that. It seems your solution is for Jedi to just go away or perhaps be a starting profession but with insane requirements that make playing Jedi so un-fun that no one would want it. I want smugglers to have real smuggling content. I want rangers to be masters of the wilds, I want crafts people to make the best available instead of competing with uber loot we can't come close to making. I want squad leaders to make a difference in battles, I want the Jedi to be a seperate and almost invisible society that players aspire to instead of a bunch of asshats showing off at starports. Even in the prequels the Jedi were seperate (and a case could bemade they were just as hated by the populous for their abilities) I say give them reasons to be out of sight. The true power of a Jedi should be in knighthood and the most severe penalties for interfering with normal affairs should also be in the FRS. There should never be a GCW battle with leagions of Jedi mowing down normal players. It's just plain wrong. But the answer shouldn't be making Jedi equal to a master tailor either. So much needs to be fixed for SWG to live up to it's potential. I've been through a lot of nerfs in all professions. It's never fun when abilities are taken away. We need the devs to add fun to the game. Not take it away.]
You misunderstand my intentions. I am not here to swing or cause the swinging of the nerf bat. This is unlike so many jedi themselves (See recent attempts to nerf speed debuffs for pikemen/smuggler/CM). I am simply attempting to show that theres a problem in the current situation and offer a remedy. Pulling jedi down to 1:1 is on the list because, whether the jedi like it or not, it has been the preferred method by the SOE devs up until this point. If you disagree with this comment then I suggest you attempt to find an original pre-9 jedi and ask them how strong jedi used to be. It seems obvious even to non-jedi that as a profession they are much weaker now than they previously were. The only possible reason for this is that there are more jedi now than there were then, its really that simple. Im not saying that I like it, Im only saying that is how it is. Im all for the solution of having jedi content as opposed to high end content, but in all honesty how far do you think that suggestion will go? Customized content is not necessarily right up their alley and I think anyone who has played the game over at least a few months would know that. Refuting all solutions is an implication of refuting the problem itself. Its easy to shoot down options really, so easy in fact that we tend to stay locked in a quagmire because no one can seem to come to a consensus on what the future of this game holds. I have no problems with jedi on an individual basis most of the time, but as a community it represents a problem because there is a direct competition between the two groups. Find a way to remove the competition in terms of PVP and content and you will have the ideal situation. Ignore it and in one year the only people playing this game will be Jedi, and all the novelty will be long gone on this one trick pony.
DarthLueder
Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:29 pm
#228
ZalokOnan wrote:
You misunderstand my intentions. I am not here to swing or cause the swinging of the nerf bat. This is unlike so many jedi themselves (See recent attempts to nerf speed debuffs for pikemen/smuggler/CM). [true, the Jedi are a class at war with themselves. They cry nerf against their own professions more than they cry foul of others] I am simply attempting to show that theres a problem in the current situation and offer a remedy. [as am I] Pulling jedi down to 1:1 is on the list because, whether the jedi like it or not, it has been the preferred method by the SOE devs up until this point. [Nerfing skills to oblivion may be SOEs usual response but it's a pretty unpopular one. Make a game less fun and your player base goes elsewhere.] If you disagree with this comment then I suggest you attempt to find an original pre-9 jedi and ask them how strong jedi used to be. It seems obvious even to non-jedi that as a profession they are much weaker now than they previously were. [ I've been playing since SWG first launched and know many early Jedi. Yes they are weaker. I don't want to see them continue on that path] The only possible reason for this is that there are more jedi now than there were then, its really that simple. [I don't think it's the numbers that has caused this. I think it's the devs view of skill balance] Im not saying that I like it, Im only saying that is how it is. Im all for the solution of having jedi content as opposed to high end content, but in all honesty how far do you think that suggestion will go? Customized content is not necessarily right up their alley and I think anyone who has played the game over at least a few months would know that.[The FRS is an example of customized content. Admittedly a pretty poorand exploitedprogram but it was their attempt none the less. Heck JTL is customized content. Marketing types are pushing for more Jedi I'm sure because it sells accounts. The numbers of Jedi will continue to grow and I'd prefer a seperate track to prevent Jedi/Non-Jedi PvP issues to making Jedi just another profession] Refuting all solutions is an implication of refuting the problem itself. Its easy to shoot down options really, so easy in fact that we tend to stay locked in a quagmire because no one can seem to come to a consensus on what the future of this game holds.[Refuting is what one does in a debate when you have an opposing view. The only thing we can probably guarantee is that the devs will do something completely different than any of our suggestions. I am merely stating my opinions on the issue and they differ somewhat from yours. My oppinions are no more or less valid that yours]I have no problems with jedi on an individual basis most of the time, but as a community it represents a problem because there is a direct competition between the two groups. Find a way to remove the competition in terms of PVP and content and you will have the ideal situation.[That is my suggestion really, tohave seperate content that severely discourages direct competition between Jedi and regular professions.]Ignore it and in one year the only people playing this game will be Jedi, and all the novelty will be long gone on this one trick pony. [Very true. The problem cannot be ignored because it is going to get worse not better without dev intervention. There are some detailed suggestions on how to do this by those far more eloquent on the subject than I. I play many professions other than my Jedi. I want to see some real love given to those long neglected smugglers, rangers, squad leaders. The CU all but destroyed Doctors and Entertainers. It made many crafting professions far less fun to play. I'd really like to see that happen before Jedi get any more attention. I'm just not sure the game can afford the delay though.]
AragornSoS
Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:57 am
#229
MsNiL wrote:
Did you even read the list? 3 of 5 Jedi disciplinesare the rarest masteries in the game.
YellowSocks wrote:
I believe this is a subtle way of informing the community whytheyare focused on providing more content for the greatest amount of players... Jedi & Bounty Hunters. They run a business and cater to the majority. Unfortunately, the people playing the professions near the bottom of the list are getting the shaft. /sigh
Still, it's interesting to see how my most beloved professions rank... musician/dancer/ranger/shipwright (although SW isn't hurting like the others). I am surprised to see smuggler in the upper half... guess we are a stubborn breed (or maybe all the beer has killed off too many braincells for us to realize we're unwanted too).
Force Healers, Force Enhancers and Force Wielders are repeatily screwed over and over and over again, and we have had no promises at all that the devs look to make us useful again.
We where not balanced to be compatible with the CU, so Defender is now overpowered while the rest is underpowered.
Clearly, this is proof to everybody how little the Devs care for Jedi in this game.
Got the List of Masteries (actual masters in listed skill trees) least to most again:
Force Sensitive: Crafting Mastery
Force Sensitive: Senses
Force Healer
Force Enhancer
Force Wielder
Squad Leader
Politician
Ranger
Droid Engineer
Force Sensitive: Reflexes
Chef
Force Sensitive: Combat
Bio Engineer
Musician
Force Defender
Fencer
Tailor
Architect
Image Designer
Armorsmith
Pikeman
Weaponsmith
ShipWright
Dancer
Commando
Lightsaber
Creature Handler
Merchant
Combat Medic
Smuggler
Swordsman
Doctor
Carbineer
Pistoleer
Teras Kasi
Rifleman
Bounty Hunter
But that's the point MsNil. They are rare MASTERIES. They perhaps are NOT so rare "dabbled". I believe they were all significantly higher on the list when it was just a case of "who has a little bit of profession X"... whereas professions like Chef, DE, Ranger and SL pretty much stay at the absolute bottom of the list no matter WHAT. The folks who play them are few, and are likely fairly dedicated. Hard to say without actual numbers, but I'd wager that most that take up those professions probably master them, probably not TOO many dabblers there. Sure there are some, but not as many as take up a line of Force Healing as a Jedi (which seems to be be a defacto "Standard" in jedi templates these days, right)?
Either way, you ARE right... we are all rare, and those who chose to Master rare professions (not just Jedi, but ALL rare professions) are not shown the "dev love" as much as, say, BH and Jedi (and that's likely Jedi LS and Defender more than others). I'd disagree with your claim that Devs don't care for Jedi in the game tho - it isn't Chefs or Rangers who are being hyped as the single biggest selling point on the next expansion, they aren't the ones who all the new players seem to want to play. I'm not getting a special "lava trap" as top billing for all the cool Rangers who want to play ToOW... Jedi make this world go round. Either current jedi, or all the new folks who are FS and WANT Jedi. I'm personally not in that crowd, but I think it IS a fair statement that there is a large number of folks drawn to this game who DO want jedi... unfortunately.
Jedi make this world go round. Either current jedi, or all the new folks who are FS and WANT Jedi. I'm personally not in that crowd, but I think it IS a fair statement that there is a large number of folks drawn to this game who DO want jedi... unfortunately.
Maccajnr
Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:40 am
#231
Chef 2nd to last
This shows how chef has been hammered real bad. Not surprising, when the best food (Bofa treat, Blob candies, Spice tea) with longest duration and lowest filling and good nutrition can be made by artisan already.
Serraphin
Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:51 pm
#232
Master Ranger + Master Combat may reflect CL 80 but its skill set, bugs, and lack if combat mods make this level erroneous. The Master Ranger profession according to the Astromech stats of old was once in the Top 5 most played professions and now is in the bottom 5 least played. This has occurred over 2 years of neglect and removal of viability of Ranger with no return (ie. removing the need for camps while not replacing camps with another skill). The list of proposals requested of the Ranger community for the Dev community or community representatives is substantial and the bug lists are equally substantial. When will this profession get some serious attention and recognition or deletion as an player profession?
Message Edited by Serraphin on 08-24-2005 07:51 PM
Flatfingers
Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:38 am
#233
Tiggs: Thanks again for the Stats -- it's great to see them again!
--Flatfingers
Aidy
Thu Aug 25, 2005 10:42 am
#234
Drashk wrote:
Tiggs wrote: Ugh I clicked on your hours of fun link by mistake when trying to get back to this browser window. *screams make it stop*
I stumbled on that one the other night and forced my girlfriend to click on it as well.Its almost as bad as this one.
rofl @ both of you!!
badger badger badger MUSHROOM MUSHROOM!
bet that stuck in your head for hours afterwards!!
Llama equally as irritating!...
AH NO SNNAKKE!