Game Guides Archive
Thread: Friday Feature: Part 2 August 19th Astromech Stats: Profession Popularity
ZalokOnan wrote:
A toon may indeed be a toon, but that doesn't take account of the fact that jedi numbers are always masked by a guaranteed alt. In effect they always water themselves down because every time a new jedi is added to the world you also add a bh/cm... etc.... The same isnt necessarily true everytime a smuggler gets added, or a rifleman... its a situation unique to jedi.
I'm not sure masked is the right word. That implies some conspiracy to hide the Jedi numbers which I don't believe is the case. Otherwise someone buying a new account also "masks" the Jedi numbers.
Because of the many professions and how we can mix and match skills it's pretty hard to zero in on a single profession. For example, I have a Master Ranger/Master Bounty Hunter. I have not and never plan to hunt players and always have my Master Ranger tag up. I think it's safe to say that combo is fairly rare compared to MBH/MRifles or MBH/MCM. The total permutations of skill combinations is pretty large and it would take a great deal of effort to sort out similar combinations and apply to the current player base. Not an impossible task but it would take a good effort I'm sure.
Still, it would be interesting to get a snapshot of the exact player count per server and how many had actually unlocked Jedi. Since it is a big concern the exact numbers would be nice. Everyone tosses around percentages as if they were fact when no one really knows the real number. Jedi population seems so large because bored kiddies hanging around the starports day after day dueling. Our look and skills are so unique one can't help but notice us. Even though my Jedi doesn't wear the paddy robes I almost always carry my saber just in case I'm attacked. Our numbers are growing constantly because a large portion of the player base are working towards that goal. Whatever the true percentage is you can be assured the number will be larger next year. SOE knows that the lure of Jedi is money in the bank. They are not going to do anything to cut that cash cow and stop people from becoming a Jedi. They can make it harder, longer, whatever and players will still seek it. If the Jedi are to co-exist with normies then the devs need to provide Jedi content that gives them something else to do beside hang around the starports dueling. My personal belief is that Jedi need to be removed from the GCW as common soldiers and participate in Jedi business. We can still impact the war but through Light vs Dark content.
Of course if the devs came up with a massive Jedi release that gave us a reason to become invisible the forum flames would melt the servers because we would be getting something and other well deserving professions would not. Catch-22. Heh, guess I'll go sit naked up in the tree.
Im not implying aconspiracy, just stating the facts. Whenever you look at the place on the list for smuggler you would not have reason to say that he must certainly have a bh/ch hiding how many smugglers there are, as Ive said... its a situation unique to jedi in that everytime a new one is added to the world they also add a new toons worth of professions to the world. Whether that is a bh or sl or pistoleer is really irrelevant. And yes its true that these lists must be taken for what they are and no more, for all you can do is imply popularity from the disparity between novice and master, and not gauge true numbers. For instance on the list which shows novices all of the jedi professions rank quite high but when the list of masteries was shown, three of them were at the right bottom... is this an implication that jedi are actually a rare breed or rather that those particular professsions are traditionally the dabbled professions? Actual numbers would be nice, but it is not in their best interest to release those numbers to us or to anyone. Ill agree that there are so many jedi because so many people are working towards it, but that doesn't necessarily justify it to me, if there was an MMO about our everyday world, and you had an option to unlock jetsetting billionaire playboy as opposed to garbageman.... which would you choose? Never mind that if everyone unlocked the game would collapse, but people will always do what is best for them as individuals and almost never what is best for the people in general. (also the reason why Im a true to life imperial, because democracies always fail for similar reasons).You suggest removal of jedi from the GCW, and that is one of three possible solutions, but unfortunately when it was suggested on the GCW forum, the jedi who posted there threw a fit, indicating that they would suffer a lack of content if they weren't as free to pwn us laymen. None of the solutions that Ive seen would be well recieved by the jedi but all would go a long way towards fixing the GCW and the severe game division in general.
1. Create a new Jedi free server.
2. Remove the Jedi from the GCW and let them fight their own light/dark war.
3. Bring Jedi strength down to 1:1 with normal elites.
MailekEOC wrote:
Hope this is a wake up call for you devs to realize that we squad leaders could use some help
ZalokOnan wrote:
.....
You suggest removal of jedi from the GCW, and that is one of three possible solutions, but unfortunately when it was suggested on the GCW forum, the jedi who posted there threw a fit, indicating that they would suffer a lack of content if they weren't as free to pwn us laymen. None of the solutions that Ive seen would be well recieved by the jedi but all would go a long way towards fixing the GCW and the severe game division in general.
1. Create a new Jedi free server.
2. Remove the Jedi from the GCW and let them fight their own light/dark war.
3. Bring Jedi strength down to 1:1 with normal elites.
Remember many Jedi absolutely love being uber (I'll refrain from the usual comments about age/maturity since listening to these goobers talk in spacial makes me cringe) but there are also plenty of the quiet, behind the scenes Jedi who enjoy role playing the Jedi profession. I dislike PvP (BHs rarely catch me and while not incompetent at PvP I could do much better LOL) but do enjoy hunting and questing with my guild.
1. Create Jedi free server. Well it would certainly be lag free. 
It would be a lonely lonely galaxy I'm sure. I doubt if this would be viable even if SOE were to do it (and it's pretty much a forgone conclusion they will never create a specially coded server like this. They have enough problems keeping everything in sync as is).
2. Remove the Jedi from the GCW and let them fight their own light/dark war. Many of the Jedi want to be part of the GCW just like any other player. So let us impact it differently but not as common combatants. Let the uber kiddies pitch a fit. If they had real Jedi vs Jedi content they would get by. Reinstituting the FRS with quests and LvD conflict plus severe FRS penalties for ganking the norms would go a long way towards making Jedi less visible. The key is giving Jedi a reason to fight their own war and leave the standard fighting to the regular forces. Face it though, this isn't the movies and the timeline is shot all to hell. The large Jedi population is just one of a myrad of things that completely blows the continuity. As long as I have to fear the sudden attack of a BH my saber will be in my hand. I don't need my robes because I wear BE modded clothes but it doesn't take a Master Ranger to tell I'm Jedi.
3. Bring Jedi strengh down to 1:1 with normal elites. I completely disagree. Jedi is an end game profession. Our XP requirements are 10 times any other profession and that doesn't even include the whole village gig. Add to that we are forced into PvP with BH attacks, xp loss, etc. We may not be the knights of old but we are still Jedi. Beatable but not to be taken lightly. As it is there are several elite templates that give us fits 1 on 1. I've had it with the nerfs in this game. Fix other professions, improve professions. Don't bring everyone down to a rock-paper-scissors set of suckyness.
If you have a solution that you'd like to suggest, then by all means, be my guest, but do not think to tell me that the game has no problems right now in feel, GCW, timeline, or jedi/non-jedi relations. Avoiding the issue isn't going to make it go away, and claiming it doesn't exist is a naivete unlike anything Ive ever seen. The game cannot continue for long as it is and change is necessary, whether anyone likes it or not. I know that it is in the nature of all jedi to "protect their investment," but I think they all forget that there are others out there who have a similar investment, even if they dont wield a lightsaber to make themselves stand out. My playing time means just as much to me as yours has to you, and the sooner the Jedi realize this and acknowledge the rest of the game community, the sooner we can work to resolve the issues that divide us.
DarthLueder wrote:
Remember many Jedi absolutely love being uber (I'll refrain from the usual comments about age/maturity since listening to these goobers talk in spacial makes me cringe) but there are also plenty of the quiet, behind the scenes Jedi who enjoy role playing the Jedi profession. I dislike PvP (BHs rarely catch me and while not incompetent at PvP I could do much better LOL) but do enjoy hunting and questing with my guild.
1. Create Jedi free server. Well it would certainly be lag free.
There are more people who would jump ship if this became an option than the jedi are willing to admit, the only reason SOE wont do this is that they know the rest of the galaxies will collapse without all the background professions that are needed whether jedi know it or not.
2. Remove the Jedi from the GCW and let them fight their own light/dark war. Many of the Jedi want to be part of the GCW just like any other player. So let us impact it differently but not as common combatants. Let the uber kiddies pitch a fit. If they had real Jedi vs Jedi content they would get by. Reinstituting the FRS with quests and LvD conflict plus severe FRS penalties for ganking the norms would go a long way towards making Jedi less visible. The key is giving Jedi a reason to fight their own war and leave the standard fighting to the regular forces. Face it though, this isn't the movies and the timeline is shot all to hell. The large Jedi population is just one of a myrad of things that completely blows the continuity. As long as I have to fear the sudden attack of a BH my saber will be in my hand. I don't need my robes because I wear BE modded clothes but it doesn't take a Master Ranger to tell I'm Jedi.
Ive said it before and Ill say it again, if Jedi did not PVP Id predict almost zero anger against them, regardless of the fact that they create obvious inbalance issues. The fact of the matter is that there is NO GCW at this point in the game because no significant numbers of normal professions are willing to get involved with the feeling that as a non-jedi they have nothing to contribute. While probably the best option to consider, it would also be the most fought against, as a great many jedi did in fact spend that time grinding for the sole purpose of being superior.
3. Bring Jedi strengh down to 1:1 with normal elites. I completely disagree. Jedi is an end game profession. Our XP requirements are 10 times any other profession and that doesn't even include the whole village gig. Add to that we are forced into PvP with BH attacks, xp loss, etc. We may not be the knights of old but we are still Jedi. Beatable but not to be taken lightly. As it is there are several elite templates that give us fits 1 on 1. I've had it with the nerfs in this game. Fix other professions, improve professions. Don't bring everyone down to a rock-paper-scissors set of suckyness.
There will always be the argument that jedi should be stronger but lets be realistic here, this is a game for everyone, and creating inbalances wherein the only solution is to go for jedi or go away, is not healthy in the long term interests of the game. The fact is already plain to any veteran jedi that they are a LOT weaker now then they were first intended to be. This is only because of their numbers, there can be no other explaination, as jedi numbers increase, so their strength goes away. If Jedi were not any stronger than anyone else then people would have more interest in the mainline professions, which is ultimately better for the long run even while not "driving sales figures." Let all that grinding time be the interest of rarity and not power, because ultimately... if Ive been playing just as long as any jedi has, why are they stronger than me? Because they had to "grind" longer? Basically you're trying to say that your playing time has been work while mine has no value. Character development goes way beyond profession masteries, unfortunately that lesson was ultimately lost in the way jedi was rolled out.
ZalokOnan wrote:
A toon may indeed be a toon, but that doesn't take account of the fact that jedi numbers are always masked by a guaranteed alt. In effect they always water themselves down because every time a new jedi is added to the world you also add a bh/cm... etc.... The same isnt necessarily true everytime a smuggler gets added, or a rifleman... its a situation unique to jedi.
Your logic is a little skewed. Let's not forget.. the Jedi we just added to the world SUBTRACTS a 2.5 Master regular template. The only thing that the numbers show is that for every jedi, there's one more jedi to tack into the diciplines [sic].
Jedi padawan +1, MBH -1, MCarb -1.
Who's to say that the Jedi didn't return their alt to the template they had pre-padawan stages?
MBH +1, MCarb +1.
Oops... lookie there. Regular profession count, back right to where it began. What was masked? All I see is 1 more MLS/MDef, MLS/MEnh, or whatever the new Jedi may be.
A toon is just a toon. Nothing more. Sure, the Jedi numbers continue to rise, but so do regular professions when new players join the game. They may ultimatly be working their way to Jedi.. but they can't do it with out a regular profession mastery or two. Those temporary professions may go away, but the Jedi gets their alt and ads a more permenent metric to the regular profesion numbers. The numbers balance out, and one more toon is added to the regular profession count as well.
Message Edited by Ka-oan on 08-21-2005 08:27 PM
ZalokOnan wrote:
If you have a solution that you'd like to suggest, then by all means, be my guest, but do not think to tell me that the game has no problems right now in feel, GCW, timeline, or jedi/non-jedi relations. [I guess I need to re-read all my posts and try to figure out where you got the idea that I said there are no problems. We just disagree on potential solutions.] Avoiding the issue isn't going to make it go away, and claiming it doesn't exist is a naivete unlike anything Ive ever seen. [No where have I claimed the issue should be avoided, nor have I claimed it doesn't exist so the naivete you say you are seeing is the only thing imaginary here] The game cannot continue for long as it is and change is necessary, whether anyone likes it or not. I know that it is in the nature of all jedi to "protect their investment," but I think they all forget that there are others out there who have a similar investment, even if they dont wield a lightsaber to make themselves stand out. My playing time means just as much to me as yours has to you, and the sooner the Jedi realize this and acknowledge the rest of the game community, the sooner we can work to resolve the issues that divide us. [I agree to a point. We dissagree on solutions. I would rather we find ways to make the game more fun for everyone. Nerfs seldom accomplish that. It seems your solution is for Jedi to just go away or perhaps be a starting profession but with insane requirements that make playing Jedi so un-fun that no one would want it. I want smugglers to have real smuggling content. I want rangers to be masters of the wilds, I want crafts people to make the best available instead of competing with uber loot we can't come close to making. I want squad leaders to make a difference in battles, I want the Jedi to be a seperate and almost invisible society that players aspire to instead of a bunch of asshats showing off at starports. Even in the prequels the Jedi were seperate (and a case could bemade they were just as hated by the populous for their abilities) I say give them reasons to be out of sight. The true power of a Jedi should be in knighthood and the most severe penalties for interfering with normal affairs should also be in the FRS. There should never be a GCW battle with leagions of Jedi mowing down normal players. It's just plain wrong. But the answer shouldn't be making Jedi equal to a master tailor either. So much needs to be fixed for SWG to live up to it's potential. I've been through a lot of nerfs in all professions. It's never fun when abilities are taken away. We need the devs to add fun to the game. Not take it away.]
DarthLueder wrote:
Remember many Jedi absolutely love being uber (I'll refrain from the usual comments about age/maturity since listening to these goobers talk in spacial makes me cringe) but there are also plenty of the quiet, behind the scenes Jedi who enjoy role playing the Jedi profession. I dislike PvP (BHs rarely catch me and while not incompetent at PvP I could do much better LOL) but do enjoy hunting and questing with my guild.
1. Create Jedi free server. Well it would certainly be lag free.
There are more people who would jump ship if this became an option than the jedi are willing to admit, the only reason SOE wont do this is that they know the rest of the galaxies will collapse without all the background professions that are needed whether jedi know it or not. [I believe there would be less interest than you think. All the people who are doing the village, the existing Jedi, those who just don't care, etc. What would be the draw? Advertise that Jedi wouldn't be allowed there and it would bea norm PvP heaven? Without any special content to keep people busy it would be a ghost server and not worth SOEs investment to keep it running. If it were practical then fine but I don't think it is.]
2. Remove the Jedi from the GCW and let them fight their own light/dark war. Many of the Jedi want to be part of the GCW just like any other player. So let us impact it differently but not as common combatants. Let the uber kiddies pitch a fit. If they had real Jedi vs Jedi content they would get by. Reinstituting the FRS with quests and LvD conflict plus severe FRS penalties for ganking the norms would go a long way towards making Jedi less visible. The key is giving Jedi a reason to fight their own war and leave the standard fighting to the regular forces. Face it though, this isn't the movies and the timeline is shot all to hell. The large Jedi population is just one of a myrad of things that completely blows the continuity. As long as I have to fear the sudden attack of a BH my saber will be in my hand. I don't need my robes because I wear BE modded clothes but it doesn't take a Master Ranger to tell I'm Jedi.
Ive said it before and Ill say it again, if Jedi did not PVP Id predict almost zero anger against them, regardless of the fact that they create obvious inbalance issues. [True but they pay their monthlye fee just like you do and PvP is pretty much forced on them by the game. Whether bounty hunters or the FRS that made them perm overt. Don't focus hate on an entire class because the devs made it that way] The fact of the matter is that there is NO GCW at this point in the game because no significant numbers of normal professions are willing to get involved with the feeling that as a non-jedi they have nothing to contribute.[I really can't comment because I havethus far resisted my guildmate's request to PvP in the GCW. I think a greater problem is there is almost no point to the GCW to begin with.] While probably the best option to consider, it would also be the most fought against, as a great many jedi did in fact spend that time grinding for the sole purpose of being superior. [If they had something Jedi specific that was actually fun I think they wouldn't mind so much. Unfortunately I have little confidence SOE could pull it off]
3. Bring Jedi strengh down to 1:1 with normal elites. I completely disagree. Jedi is an end game profession. Our XP requirements are 10 times any other profession and that doesn't even include the whole village gig. Add to that we are forced into PvP with BH attacks, xp loss, etc. We may not be the knights of old but we are still Jedi. Beatable but not to be taken lightly. As it is there are several elite templates that give us fits 1 on 1. I've had it with the nerfs in this game. Fix other professions, improve professions. Don't bring everyone down to a rock-paper-scissors set of suckyness.
There will always be the argument that jedi should be stronger but lets be realistic here, this is a game for everyone, and creating inbalances wherein the only solution is to go for jedi or go away, is not healthy in the long term interests of the game. [I guess my master weaponsmith should be just as viable in combat as a comando then. Every game has roles and if there were no Jedi then where would you focus your hate? Probably MBH/MCM because they would rule the battlefield and the nerf cries would be focused on them. I'd rather a more innovative solution be presented which seperate our roles so that there is balance rather than just weaken the FOTM profession.] The fact is already plain to any veteran jedi that they are a LOT weaker now then they were first intended to be. This is only because of their numbers, there can be no other explaination, as jedi numbers increase, so their strength goes away. If Jedi were not any stronger than anyone else then people would have more interest in the mainline professions, which is ultimately better for the long run even while not "driving sales figures." Let all that grinding time be the interest of rarity and not power, because ultimately... if Ive been playing just as long as any jedi has, why are they stronger than me? Because they had to "grind" longer? Basically you're trying to say that your playing time has been work while mine has no value.[No and don't put words in my mouth so to speak because I never said your time was without value. Every profession's relative strengths lie in the journey to master. The amount ofxp required to gain a particular character is not directly related to the professions strength but it has someweight. If it were direct then Jedi would be 10 times more powerful and that has never been the case. Look at my sig. Iplay many roles. Jedi is just one. I have played most every professionsince launch.I understand the strengths and weakness of most professions.SWG has lots of issues and how to balance players is just one]Character development goes way beyond profession masteries, unfortunately that lesson was ultimately lost in the way jedi was rolled out. [True, SOE pretty much mucked this up royally]
Now, this is a dang good question.
Lotussutol wrote:
Tiggs...why not follow the format from oct 03?
PROFESSIONS
Percentage of characters with specific novice skill
Live server report date: Oct 20th
Starting Professions
57.91% Novice Marksman
51.66% Novice Scout
36.47% Novice Medic
34.84% Novice Artisan
32.60% Novice Brawler
17.93% Novice Entertainer
Elite Professions
8.66% Novice Creature Handler
6.76% Novice Pistoleer
2.58% Novice Bounty Hunter
2.11% Novice Doctor
2.01% Novice Merchant
1.98% Novice Rifleman
1.86% Novice Smuggler
1.80% Novice Ranger
1.68% Novice Architect
1.55% Novice Commando
1.53% Novice Weaponsmith
1.47% Novice Teras Kasi Artist
1.47% Novice Carbineer
1.08% Novice Combat Medic
1.00% Novice Tailor
0.98% Novice Bio Engineer
0.97% Novice Dancer
0.93% Novice Armorsmith
0.91% Novice Droid Engineer
0.71% Novice Musician
0.61% Novice Swordsman
0.46% Novice Squad Leader
0.35% Novice Fencer
0.31% Novice Image Designer
0.30% Novice Chef
0.25% Novice Pikeman
0.00% Novice Jedi Padawan
Notes: This list includes characters that were created but potentially never used (it doesn't include deleted characters).
FACTIONS
Percentage of characters in specific factions
Live server report date: Oct 20th
76.06% Neutral
13.59% Rebel Covert
7.87% Imperial Covert
1.09% Rebel Declared
1.39% Imperial Declared
Notes: There are 10% more factioned players than in early September. Rebels currently outnumber Imperials by 63%. We need to find ways to encourage more players to join the Empire as covert agents.
This info is from here
http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/content.jsp?page=Character%20Metrics
Breaking the disciplines down dilutes this fact and does not give a true representation of how many people are on the jedi road (i.e completed village and unlocked).
I honestly think that SOE will never show the number of jedi iniates becasue they themselves are probably scared sh1tless of the actual figures they have seen and fully know they will have a forum wide riot on their hands if those numbers were ever shown to anyone outside their clique
Message Edited by f33d84ck on 08-22-2005 06:25 AM
MsNiL wrote:I am refering to Garva's "Master" list:
YellowSocks wrote:
Not sure what list you are looking at, but the one I'm referring to is the one Tiggs posted here: http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/content.jsp?page=Friday%20Feature%20-%20Profession%20PopularityI refuse to get into an argument about how Jedi have it so poorly when there are professions that have been completely ignored for YEARS. You'll get no sympathy from from me, sorry.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=game_guides&message.id=302978#M302978So you wanted the truth? You couldnt handle the truth.
I dont need your sympathy. You can hold your ears and sing LALALALA all you like, becouse your whining dont change solid evidence: 3 whole disciplines are so redundant that they are barely played at all, making 60% of Jedi the most repeatily shafted/nerfed/crippled/gimped in this game. Guess your "Jedi gets all the attention" argument got flushed huh?
The idiotic nonsense just doesn't end... Sure, it shows these professions need some help, but since they're Jedi professions, they shouldn't be so high to begin with. Secondly, Healer and Enhancer are SUPPORT professions that people with ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS be less likely to master anyway. Get over yourself.
This is not proof at all of Jedi not getting attention, that's stupid. Jedi have issues and problems, but try and take your pills.
antares