Game Guides Archive

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pussycat wrote:

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AyahtollahofRockNRolla wrote:

W T F's a notch?

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Look it up.

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1. 
   
   
   
   1. A V-shaped cut.
   
   
   2. Such a cut used for keeping a record.

Yup thats real helpfull.

So what exactly would you suggest the mobs cl etc to be when "bringing them down a notch"

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Leek_Stywalker wrote:

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pussycat wrote:

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AyahtollahofRockNRolla wrote:

W T F's a notch?

---

Look it up.

---

notch
n.

1. 1. A V-shaped cut.
   2. Such a cut used for keeping a record.

Yup thats real helpfull.

So what exactly would you suggest the mobs cl etc to be when "bringing them down a notch"

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From webster.com:
Main Entry: 1notch
Pronunciation: 'näch
Function: noun
Etymology: perhaps alteration (from misdivision of an otch) of (assumed) otch, from Middle French oche
1 a : a V-shaped indentation b : a slit made to serve as a record c : a rounded indentation cut into the pages of a book on the edge opposite the spine
2 : a deep close pass : GAP
3 : DEGREE, STEP
- notched /'nächt/ adjective

Hope that helps.

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pussycat wrote:

---

Leek_Stywalker wrote:

---

pussycat wrote:

---

AyahtollahofRockNRolla wrote:

W T F's a notch?

---

Look it up.

---

notch
n.

1. 
   
   
   
   1. A V-shaped cut.
   
   
   2. Such a cut used for keeping a record.

Yup thats real helpfull.

So what exactly would you suggest the mobs cl etc to be when "bringing them down a notch"

---

From webster.com:
Main Entry: 1notch
Pronunciation: 'näch
Function: noun
Etymology: perhaps alteration (from misdivision of an otch) of (assumed) otch, from Middle French oche
1 a : a V-shaped indentation b : a slit made to serve as a record c : a rounded indentation cut into the pages of a book on the edge opposite the spine
2 : a deep close pass : GAP
3 : DEGREE, STEP
- notched /'nächt/ adjective

Hope that helps.

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Leek_Stywalker wrote:

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pussycat wrote:

---

Leek_Stywalker wrote:

---

pussycat wrote:

---

AyahtollahofRockNRolla wrote:

W T F's a notch?

---

Look it up.

---

notch
n.

1. 1. A V-shaped cut.
   2. Such a cut used for keeping a record.

Yup thats real helpfull.

So what exactly would you suggest the mobs cl etc to be when "bringing them down a notch"

---

From webster.com:
Main Entry: 1notch
Pronunciation: 'näch
Function: noun
Etymology: perhaps alteration (from misdivision of an otch) of (assumed) otch, from Middle French oche
1 a : a V-shaped indentation b : a slit made to serve as a record c : a rounded indentation cut into the pages of a book on the edge opposite the spine
2 : a deep close pass : GAP
3 : DEGREE, STEP
- notched /'nächt/ adjective

Hope that helps.

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not really, i asked what measures you would take to alter the dwb, e.g what cl etc you would make each of the mobs

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Why is it so important for me to define exactly what it would mean for me to bring it down a notch? I'm sure you can imagine plenty of possible scenarios, some have already been mentioned here.

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pussycat wrote:

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Leek_Stywalker wrote:

---

pussycat wrote:

---

Leek_Stywalker wrote:

---

pussycat wrote:

---

AyahtollahofRockNRolla wrote:

W T F's a notch?

---

Look it up.

---

notch
n.

1. 
   
   
   
   1. A V-shaped cut.
   
   
   2. Such a cut used for keeping a record.

Yup thats real helpfull.

So what exactly would you suggest the mobs cl etc to be when "bringing them down a notch"

---

From webster.com:
Main Entry: 1notch
Pronunciation: 'näch
Function: noun
Etymology: perhaps alteration (from misdivision of an otch) of (assumed) otch, from Middle French oche
1 a : a V-shaped indentation b : a slit made to serve as a record c : a rounded indentation cut into the pages of a book on the edge opposite the spine
2 : a deep close pass : GAP
3 : DEGREE, STEP
- notched /'nächt/ adjective

Hope that helps.

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not really, i asked what measures you would take to alter the dwb, e.g what cl etc you would make each of the mobs

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Why is it so important for me to define exactly what it would mean for me to bring it down a notch? I'm sure you can imagine plenty of possible scenarios, some have already been mentioned here.

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because your idea of alittle may be someones idea of alot. you want people to agree with you yet you do not present any figures of specify anything. give us numbers etc so we can understand you.

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Leek_Stywalker wrote:

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pussycat wrote:

---

Leek_Stywalker wrote:

---

pussycat wrote:

---

Leek_Stywalker wrote:

---

pussycat wrote:

---

AyahtollahofRockNRolla wrote:

W T F's a notch?

---

Look it up.

---

notch
n.

1. 1. A V-shaped cut.
   2. Such a cut used for keeping a record.

Yup thats real helpfull.

So what exactly would you suggest the mobs cl etc to be when "bringing them down a notch"

---

From webster.com:
Main Entry: 1notch
Pronunciation: 'näch
Function: noun
Etymology: perhaps alteration (from misdivision of an otch) of (assumed) otch, from Middle French oche
1 a : a V-shaped indentation b : a slit made to serve as a record c : a rounded indentation cut into the pages of a book on the edge opposite the spine
2 : a deep close pass : GAP
3 : DEGREE, STEP
- notched /'nächt/ adjective

Hope that helps.

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not really, i asked what measures you would take to alter the dwb, e.g what cl etc you would make each of the mobs

---

Why is it so important for me to define exactly what it would mean for me to bring it down a notch? I'm sure you can imagine plenty of possible scenarios, some have already been mentioned here.

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because your idea of alittle may be someones idea of alot. you want people to agree with you yet you do not present any figures of specify anything. give us numbers etc so we can understand you.

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Yes but we're not here to settle on how much it should be changed. We'd probly never agree on a figure/percentage and it would just be another round of disagremeents.

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pussycat wrote:

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Leek_Stywalker wrote:

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pussycat wrote:

---

Leek_Stywalker wrote:

---

pussycat wrote:

---

Leek_Stywalker wrote:

---

pussycat wrote:

---

AyahtollahofRockNRolla wrote:

W T F's a notch?

---

Look it up.

---

notch
n.

1. 
   
   
   
   1. A V-shaped cut.
   
   
   2. Such a cut used for keeping a record.

Yup thats real helpfull.

So what exactly would you suggest the mobs cl etc to be when "bringing them down a notch"

---

From webster.com:
Main Entry: 1notch
Pronunciation: 'näch
Function: noun
Etymology: perhaps alteration (from misdivision of an otch) of (assumed) otch, from Middle French oche
1 a : a V-shaped indentation b : a slit made to serve as a record c : a rounded indentation cut into the pages of a book on the edge opposite the spine
2 : a deep close pass : GAP
3 : DEGREE, STEP
- notched /'nächt/ adjective

Hope that helps.

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not really, i asked what measures you would take to alter the dwb, e.g what cl etc you would make each of the mobs

---

Why is it so important for me to define exactly what it would mean for me to bring it down a notch? I'm sure you can imagine plenty of possible scenarios, some have already been mentioned here.

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because your idea of alittle may be someones idea of alot. you want people to agree with you yet you do not present any figures of specify anything. give us numbers etc so we can understand you.

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Yes but we're not here to settle on how much it should be changed. We'd probly never agree on a figure/percentage and it would just be another round of disagremeents.

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Leek_Stywalker wrote:

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pussycat wrote:

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Leek_Stywalker wrote:

---

pussycat wrote:

---

Leek_Stywalker wrote:

---

pussycat wrote:

---

Leek_Stywalker wrote:

---

pussycat wrote:

---

AyahtollahofRockNRolla wrote:

W T F's a notch?

---

Look it up.

---

notch
n.

1. 1. A V-shaped cut.
   2. Such a cut used for keeping a record.

Yup thats real helpfull.

So what exactly would you suggest the mobs cl etc to be when "bringing them down a notch"

---

From webster.com:
Main Entry: 1notch
Pronunciation: 'näch
Function: noun
Etymology: perhaps alteration (from misdivision of an otch) of (assumed) otch, from Middle French oche
1 a : a V-shaped indentation b : a slit made to serve as a record c : a rounded indentation cut into the pages of a book on the edge opposite the spine
2 : a deep close pass : GAP
3 : DEGREE, STEP
- notched /'nächt/ adjective

Hope that helps.

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not really, i asked what measures you would take to alter the dwb, e.g what cl etc you would make each of the mobs

---

Why is it so important for me to define exactly what it would mean for me to bring it down a notch? I'm sure you can imagine plenty of possible scenarios, some have already been mentioned here.

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because your idea of alittle may be someones idea of alot. you want people to agree with you yet you do not present any figures of specify anything. give us numbers etc so we can understand you.

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Yes but we're not here to settle on how much it should be changed. We'd probly never agree on a figure/percentage and it would just be another round of disagremeents.

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not at all, like i said your idea of alittle may be our idea of alot or vice versa, if you give us rough figures then we may realise that it is not so bad. Or do you not have any idea except to bring it a notch down/make it easier?

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And how do you quantify the reduction? I don't think it should necessarily include only changing CL levels... in fact, CL levels might stay where they are if they changed other things.

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pussycat wrote:

And how do you quantify the reduction? I don't think it should necessarily include only changing CL levels... in fact, CL levels might stay where they are if they changed other things.

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Leek_Stywalker wrote:

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pussycat wrote:

And how do you quantify the reduction? I don't think it should necessarily include only changing CL levels... in fact, CL levels might stay where they are if they changed other things.

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If you want it taken down a notch then you must have some idea of what you would like to be done. You post on a forum with a broad idea to take the bunker down a notch yet you do not specify anything. If you think through your ideas, lay them out in a well constructed post explaining what should be done and why people will be less ready to flame and may listen to your ideas.

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There are several ways it could be done; reducing or eliminating area attacks; changing the frequency of spawns, making it possible for two teams to get the keys at the same time, there are several things that could be done. Without the benefit of a server in which to test it, like the devs can, it's impossible to say what would be best to bring it down a notch and keep it fairly challening.

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Leek_Stywalker wrote:

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pussycat wrote:

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Leek_Stywalker wrote:

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pussycat wrote:

And how do you quantify the reduction? I don't think it should necessarily include only changing CL levels... in fact, CL levels might stay where they are if they changed other things.

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If you want it taken down a notch then you must have some idea of what you would like to be done. You post on a forum with a broad idea to take the bunker down a notch yet you do not specify anything. If you think through your ideas, lay them out in a well constructed post explaining what should be done and why people will be less ready to flame and may listen to your ideas.

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There are several ways it could be done; reducing or eliminating area attacks; changing the frequency of spawns, making it possible for two teams to get the keys at the same time, there are several things that could be done. Without the benefit of a server in which to test it, like the devs can, it's impossible to say what would be best to bring it down a notch and keep it fairly challening.

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The Devs have provided a server to test it on, namely test center. The idea of allowing two teams to get keys at once has been taken into consideration. I cant remember who exactly posted it, may have been Blixtev, anyways a dev posted that they are looking into allowing groups to combine in a similar fashion to the way they do on eq2. In theory that should allow keys to be gotten to allow more than one group acess at once.

Even if they dont the key spawns are under 10mins so with a little waiting you could get 2 groups down at once.

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I meant that unlike the devs, we cannot go into a test server and start changing the mobs, they can do it and test it and see how it plays out. Well, in theory they can. I wish we had a test server like that, where we could change and modify mobs and see what it's like... but I digress.

Yes, I have been down there with 2 groups. No disrespect, but you aren't telling me stuff that I haven't done.

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pussycat wrote:

"Simply interpreted what I wrote"? No, you MISINTERPRETED what I wrote to suit your needs. Now, I really have to ask you to stop twisting my words around. I have never said that the DWB is impossible, although certainly many people have thought that it was. Without the right group, then yes, it may be impossible. I have never said that I cannot do it with a few close friends who may not be best equipped for the DWB. Do you understand what I have just said? I NEVER SAID THAT, STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH!

The DWB is all but impossible unless you have Jedi who are full-template or near full template, and also the right combination of professions for the rest of the group. This is why it needs to be brought down a notch, to make it accessible to a wider number of people who may have already given up because of all the horror stories. Don't be CONDESCENDING and say one has to build relationships with other guilds. The groups I have been in have had players from different guilds and both factions. By your rationale, if the game is full of bugs, then, darn it, the players should just learn to deal with multiple game-breaking bugs and just shut up about it. If a quest is broken, by your rationale, then darn it, the players should just get used to having a broken quest. If a dungeon leaves out a disproportionate number of the player base, then darn it, the players should just get used to it and shut up, right? Isn't that what you are advocating? Let SOE give us bugs, broken quests, impossibly difficult dungeones, we are the ones who have got to get used to all of the things that are wrong with the game and then just be grateful for the lack of customer service.

I have said again and again that just by lowering the mobs in the DWB -- and the mobs really *DO* have to be brought down a notch or two -- it won't necessarily make the jetpacks/mando armor easier to get. Not many people are going to be into the multiple runs necessary, and also the components that are necessary for crafting them could have different drop rates to keep the items rare.

Stop being elitist. The DWB mobs should be brought down a notch or two to make it more accessible. Otherwise it just benefits the uber-elite players who want uber-elite gear, and those who want to make MILLION$ of credits in profit. These craftable items are never going to become all that common, and sooner or later a newer, harder dungeon is going to come along and then all the uber-elite powergrinders will flock to that, figure out all the angles and how to make million$ off of it, and then pretty much want to have the whole place for themselves.

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Leek_Stywalker wrote:

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pussycat wrote:

"Simply interpreted what I wrote"? No, you MISINTERPRETED what I wrote to suit your needs. Now, I really have to ask you to stop twisting my words around. I have never said that the DWB is impossible, although certainly many people have thought that it was. Without the right group, then yes, it may be impossible. I have never said that I cannot do it with a few close friends who may not be best equipped for the DWB. Do you understand what I have just said? I NEVER SAID THAT, STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH!

The DWB is all but impossible unless you have Jedi who are full-template or near full template, and also the right combination of professions for the rest of the group. This is why it needs to be brought down a notch, to make it accessible to a wider number of people who may have already given up because of all the horror stories. Don't be CONDESCENDING and say one has to build relationships with other guilds. The groups I have been in have had players from different guilds and both factions. By your rationale, if the game is full of bugs, then, darn it, the players should just learn to deal with multiple game-breaking bugs and just shut up about it. If a quest is broken, by your rationale, then darn it, the players should just get used to having a broken quest. If a dungeon leaves out a disproportionate number of the player base, then darn it, the players should just get used to it and shut up, right? Isn't that what you are advocating? Let SOE give us bugs, broken quests, impossibly difficult dungeones, we are the ones who have got to get used to all of the things that are wrong with the game and then just be grateful for the lack of customer service.

I have said again and again that just by lowering the mobs in the DWB -- and the mobs really *DO* have to be brought down a notch or two -- it won't necessarily make the jetpacks/mando armor easier to get. Not many people are going to be into the multiple runs necessary, and also the components that are necessary for crafting them could have different drop rates to keep the items rare.

Stop being elitist. The DWB mobs should be brought down a notch or two to make it more accessible. Otherwise it just benefits the uber-elite players who want uber-elite gear, and those who want to make MILLION$ of credits in profit. These craftable items are never going to become all that common, and sooner or later a newer, harder dungeon is going to come along and then all the uber-elite powergrinders will flock to that, figure out all the angles and how to make million$ off of it, and then pretty much want to have the whole place for themselves.

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It seems to me that you have a real problem and almost envy of people who do sucesfull runs on a fairly regualar basis. I do agree with SoE that the right sort of combinations of professions should be used to acess it. After all they have built the CU around four main types of professions, Crowd control, nukes, tanks and healers. the DWB requires each of these types of professions and to play their role correctly. I appologise if thinking that having a well balanced group is being elitest.

As for Jedi they do make it easier, however subtracting them and placing correctly templated swordsmen and fencers to tank with healers stocked up on stims watching their ham bars is a possible alternative and i do not feel that the dwb is impossible in anyway without jedi, they just make it alittle easier.

The main defense the dwb has is the CL of the mobs, lowering them will have an effect on the amount of Jetpacks etc produced. This has been proven by the flooding of pearls and tissues from Kryats once correct strategies and groups were realised pre cu. I.E once the community realises it is easy and there is not as much stress on a group to work as well together as before it would become more camped. But that is not my arguement.

As i said before and i will repeat as this conversation seems to be running in circles, the dwb is currently the greatest challenge in the game. the reward for the greatest challenge is iconic armour that many people recoginse as a symbol of starwars almost as much as a lightsaber. Lowering the mobs will make it too easy and no longer provide a challenge, because after all what other highend content is available ingame at this precise point in time.

I do not want an easy mode that you seem to be crying for, i am sure (and can be seen by the replies to your post) that the rest of the community doesnt either.

SoE has provided a piece of longterm content that gives us a goal that may take a year to achieve and many of us like that.

In terms of bugs and broken quests, i dislike them as much as the rest. true bugs should be fixed. However dungeons and mobs shouldnt be "fixed" just because someone cries that it is too hard.

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Once again, you resort to misrepresentation of others and what we might have to say. There is no "envy" here, for the simple reason that I'm advocating this position not for personal reasons, but for the enjoyment of a wider number of players. This is something that may not have occured to you because apparently you only think of yourself and your own selfish needs/wants. I am always happy to help out other players in any way that I can, regardless of the difficulty involved, because I believe in team efforts and helping out others who may have less skills or experience than I do. It's very simple, really, not being selfish, but it's not something that I would expect you to understand.

How exactly would it hurt you if they turn down the DWB a notch or two? It wouldn't. You'd still be able to get whatever it is that you have gotten/expect to get from the DWB, in terms of craftable items. Maybe even make some for friends. It would just make it easier for others to get to it. And that is the part that you cannot stand -- letting others share in the same thing that you enjoy. For you, if it's exclusive and leaves others out, GREAT. If it is inclusive and can be enjoyed by more players, BAD. Changing the CL of the mobs would not necessarily result in more craftable items being available, the quantity can still be controlled by the drop rate of the components. What it would do is make it easier for those who may want to do the DWB without wanting to craft items in there, or those who don't want crafted items but want to help out their friends and/or guilidies to get them.

The DWB is not the greatest challenge in the game... the greatest challenge is being a cooperative player who helps others out and is not only looking out for himself/herself. And that is the challenge that is beyond you.

Nobody is crying for an "easy mode", turn down the CL levels or area attacks and it will still be a hard dungeon to get through, in many cases, for those who already know who to do it, it might be possible to get it done with one or two less players.

Stop being selfish and looking out only for your interests and those of players who hope to make MILLION$ from the DWB if it remains relatively unaccessible to many players.