Game Guides Archive
Thread: An open letter regarding the state of exploration in the SWG universe
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Chridder
Sun Sep 12, 2004 10:33 pm
#1
An open letter to the SWG developers and community:
Concerns of the Exploration of SWG:
I’ve been playing through several different MMORPG’s recently and the biggest contrast I can find between SWG and the rest is the exploration factor. In the beginning if a player wanted to travel from different parts of the land he had to rely on others as the wilderness was a dangerous place. This deepened the level of immersion greatly but currently a player can whip from Jabba’s palace to the Emperor’s retreat in as little as five minutes.
That is one of my largest concerns with the current state of SWG, it seems exploration has died and what we are left with is… total lack of realism and role playing. In the SW universe the galaxy is a dangerous place and even Jedi used caution when navigating rough territory but now as long as you have a speeder you can go anyway and collect as many badges as your time allows. This all but destroys any threat or alarm a player feels when he is in the wilderness.
On the TC-Ahazi I decided to put my ideas into practice and dropped all my skills, got myself a speeder and some money from the blue glowing rock and went wherever I wanted, with no threat to myself, why should I show any concern when I can outrun any creature and avoid any danger. As nice as it is to feel like you’re all powerful it’s an empty feeling, and that seems to be the direction SWG is going, empty.
In the beginning if a player wanted to scout the wilderness and travel to wayfar or even dathomir he needed a collective group of people who would venture with him but now, wayfar and dathomir are cheap dates on a Saturday night, your all but guaranteed to run the bases.
Suggestions:
Expanding the universe:
Suggestion #1:
My first suggestion is to expand the worlds and enlarge the planets, create larger gaps between cities and POI and fill the voids between them with more creatures as well as increase the enemy’s power. Even with a speeder bike it should take more then ten minutes to get from Jabba’s palace to the Fort tusken. This suggestion should in no way effect the shuttle system as it seems fine the way it is (the previous 10 minute wait was way too long before by the current 5 minute system is a step in the right direction).
Suggestion #2:
Make speeder bikes a profession the way the new JTLS makes a fighter pilot a new profession. Bikes currently are too fast, too convenient, in SWU it took skill to operate a speeder bike at full speed while currently in SWG the bike dictates the speed and not the player. As I commented earlier with the Ahazi TC test run a new player who gets his hands on a speeder can travel anywhere with very limited threat if any. Any sense of adventure has been greatly reduced, perhaps making the speed of the bike limited the skill of the player would help create a new sense of adventure and accomplishment in the current state of SWG.
Suggestion #3?
Please post your own suggestion below
skoravensis
Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:00 am
#2
I'm sure all the crafters who have to run to dangerous planets and remote locations to get resources to build your weapons and armour will love this idea. Hey, why spend 15 minutes getting there when you spend 30?
No danger to yourself? Never had a FCH or Nightsister blast your bike from under you then?
Sorry, I just think vehicles are fine, and you can still get that sense of exploration you are looking for, just walk it instead
No danger to yourself? Never had a FCH or Nightsister blast your bike from under you then?
Sorry, I just think vehicles are fine, and you can still get that sense of exploration you are looking for, just walk it instead
SpottyGekko
Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:41 am
#3
Great post ! But I think the problem goes deeper than just having easy exploration.
I agree about the "empty" feeling in the game. There is very limited risk left, only reward, and that gets old quickly. Ever played a single-player game with a "god-mode" cheat code ? Great fun the first time, but pretty stale after that. I've heard a lot of old-timers reminisce about "the early days", when the ONLY way of fighting anything bigger than a Durni was in a group. Not a solo group (abomination), but a real group. I remember having to hire bodyguards to do a harvester run, lol !
Where's the excitement now ?
- Very little risk in travelling anywhere by vehicle (yes, you could get knocked off your bike, but rarely)
- Using buffs, composite and high-end weapons means you can win most NPC fights solo
- If you do lose a fight and get killed, it's merely an inconvenience, you still have all your equipment with you, and the only penalty is minimal decay
The result of all this is that the only "exciting" thing left is going after high-end loot. That is a great idea in itself, but in SWG you can mostly solo the things that drop the loot, so it is reduced to a "loot grind", where you simply have to camp and kill the same thing endlessly until you get a good piece of loot. Then u sell that loot on the Trade Forum auctions for a few million creds, buy another, more uber weapon or armour piece, and go back to solo-camp so that you can perhaps get an even better piece of loot. Ho hum...
Without risk, the rewards lose their meaning.
Withoutthe adrenaline rush brought by fear, there is no excitement, no sense of achievement...
Some willsay: "You want excitement ? Then just walk around without buffs and armour on Dath!" and that is a valid comment. But doing that means that I will handicap myself compared to othercharacters, who will then scoop up all the good stuff, because they can. That is not a level playing field. People always try to find the fastest way to do something, with the least risk. When the game allows them to achieve that, they complain that it is boring. Ah well...
Tobar
Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:22 pm
#4
I like it. *thumbs up*
I've completly charted Endor and Corellia and partially Tatooine. I did Endor with my friend Rhett on foot and boy was that a blast it took a week or so to do it. Some time later after we got vehicles we did Corellia, took a day or so the excitement that was there before just wasn't there anymore.
Almagill
Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:38 pm
#5
As a ranger I think the entire 'wilderness', such as it is, needs looking at.
Who needs a scout or ranger as guide to get from A to B these days? Just jump on your bike, point your nose to the arrow and scoot. Somebody firing at you? Pffft, just keep going. About the only thing you need worry about are the few creatures and NPC's that can dizzy/stun/KD you off your bike and even then, well, why worry.
From the rangers persective the lack of wilderness really makes our profession a joke.
RangerBob "Honey, am off to hunt big scary critters"
MrsBob "Well, be careful out there..."
Eschewing such fripperies as swoops and AV21's, RangerBob heads off into the wilderness, walks the 500m from his house to the next town, hops a shuttle, walks the next 500m to the next player town... Hardly "roaming the wilds" is it?
Even when you do find a clear hunting ground and, buffless and armour free, are merrily harvesting away, you need to keep an eye open for the traffic. It's like hunting in the middle of a motorway. Nice shot lined up, creature blissfully unaware of your cammoed and hidden presence... whooosh...whoosh...varoooom.... frippin' speeders blat past, riders on their way to the next uberkill spot. Oh frell, the whole lair is alert now... aggroed!
At least its only a 500m burst run to the nearest town and a cantina.
MrsBob "Catch much today dear?"
RangerBob "Nah, but I've taken up dancing in hawtpants. Only way to get any excitement these days...."
We seriously need more land! And make some of it no build, not just the few 100m round major towns.
Who needs a scout or ranger as guide to get from A to B these days? Just jump on your bike, point your nose to the arrow and scoot. Somebody firing at you? Pffft, just keep going. About the only thing you need worry about are the few creatures and NPC's that can dizzy/stun/KD you off your bike and even then, well, why worry.
From the rangers persective the lack of wilderness really makes our profession a joke.
RangerBob "Honey, am off to hunt big scary critters"
MrsBob "Well, be careful out there..."
Eschewing such fripperies as swoops and AV21's, RangerBob heads off into the wilderness, walks the 500m from his house to the next town, hops a shuttle, walks the next 500m to the next player town... Hardly "roaming the wilds" is it?
Even when you do find a clear hunting ground and, buffless and armour free, are merrily harvesting away, you need to keep an eye open for the traffic. It's like hunting in the middle of a motorway. Nice shot lined up, creature blissfully unaware of your cammoed and hidden presence... whooosh...whoosh...varoooom.... frippin' speeders blat past, riders on their way to the next uberkill spot. Oh frell, the whole lair is alert now... aggroed!
At least its only a 500m burst run to the nearest town and a cantina.
MrsBob "Catch much today dear?"
RangerBob "Nah, but I've taken up dancing in hawtpants. Only way to get any excitement these days...."
We seriously need more land! And make some of it no build, not just the few 100m round major towns.
Chridder
Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:11 pm
#6
I think increased land and expesically no build zones. Three days after I got accepted into the force village I returned there and spent most of my time avoiding weapons factories, I kidd you not, there were atleast 20 different loot drop equipment buildings surrounded by the mists, all sense of roleplaying dead and I had to make a detour through a crowded hidden village...
Suggestion #3
Increased no build zones could be an easy convient reaction for the developers, it would be the most cost effective solution to the overcrowded unadventerous areas that have popped up. Clear out the area around Ft. Tusken as its ackward fighting a tusken and running into a vendor tent.
AkieKrehor
Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:24 pm
#7
at 1st i thoughtspeeders were awesome but then recently i had to wait for the old man. That means no speeders. So for fun i went on a hike through endor and.....That was sooooooooo much better then flying. Speeders take the fun outa visiting places of intrest when u can get to all of em on the planet in 30 mins. If any devs read this post i think from now till JTL comes out u should take speeders away. let the people find out what it was like back when u didnt have ur god mode swoop. Or the old time vets such as myself to remember what it was like. I remember back when i 1st got the game and was a noobie 0/3/0/3 in marksmen and there were no vehicles/mounts in the game. I went on a journey with my friend from one end of naboo to the exact opposite end. Those were the best days ive had in this game... not when i masterd swordsmen or anything them. I know taking out vehicles would effect the jedi village a bit but hey if ur strong enough to get to the village you should be strong enough to walk there and if not then get a group like the old days
*Akie signing off*
iacou
Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:26 pm
#8
I agree totally. The excuse of "go without armor and buffs" is just not sufficient anymore. I shouldn't have to sacrifice rewards for content.
I love this game.But there was nothing more exciting than wanting/needing to go to Anchorhead from Mos Eisley and having to decide whether it was worth the risk though. Or getting a group together for a trip to Dathomir or Endor, only to get sent to the cloner. I miss those days.
I dont think buffs, armor, or weapons ruined this game. The game characterevolved, as it should. Unfortunately, the world around us has not.
Chridder
Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:26 am
#9
A valid point concerning resource sampling, I know as a weaponsmith how the time can factor in but then again...
The reason I pay as much for resources from someone else is for the time saving factor of it. Less resources would cause the resources value to climb and also limit the amount of weapons produced in effect doing away with mass produced uber weapons and creating a widerrange inplayers powers... because honestly how many mass produced uber power hammers and VK's can you see in one day without thinking everyone in the galazy shops in the same place.
But Im getting off subject, this post is about exploration and putting more excitement and adventure back into it.
SharellT
Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:37 am
#10
I agree with both Suggestions whole-heartedly.
I sincerely doubt Naboo was a mere 15-kilometers from one side to the other. Even if this just means making kilometer-long stretches of ocean, or barren desert, just the fact that it's there would really help, I think. Currently, the biggest "Ocean" is on Corellia, and isn't really all that big.
I like the idea of a Driver profession, after all, in real life we have to learn how to drive a vehicle, and learning how to drive a car(X34, AV-21) is very different from learning how to drive a bike(Swoop, Speederbike).
I think adding more planets would really help. I think about the current Adventure planets... Dathomir, Endor, Yavin... all, speaking from a canonical point of view, should be off-limits to the general populace. I would love to see more planets, especially adventure-type, to decrease the population on these ones.
But I would like to bring up a counterpoint on exploration: Dathomir. Those trees were built with the sole purpose of trapping your speeder, which isn't very fun when you have several Nightsisters bearing down on you. To quote myself, "***** lightning'ed my bike!". Which really... sucked. But it was quite.. immersing to have to walk a few kilometers across Dathomir...
I sincerely doubt Naboo was a mere 15-kilometers from one side to the other. Even if this just means making kilometer-long stretches of ocean, or barren desert, just the fact that it's there would really help, I think. Currently, the biggest "Ocean" is on Corellia, and isn't really all that big.
I like the idea of a Driver profession, after all, in real life we have to learn how to drive a vehicle, and learning how to drive a car(X34, AV-21) is very different from learning how to drive a bike(Swoop, Speederbike).
I think adding more planets would really help. I think about the current Adventure planets... Dathomir, Endor, Yavin... all, speaking from a canonical point of view, should be off-limits to the general populace. I would love to see more planets, especially adventure-type, to decrease the population on these ones.
But I would like to bring up a counterpoint on exploration: Dathomir. Those trees were built with the sole purpose of trapping your speeder, which isn't very fun when you have several Nightsisters bearing down on you. To quote myself, "***** lightning'ed my bike!". Which really... sucked. But it was quite.. immersing to have to walk a few kilometers across Dathomir...
flsdhalghjsdflgkshglajh
Tue Sep 14, 2004 5:00 pm
#12
AkieKrehor wrote:
at 1st i thoughtspeeders were awesome but then recently i had to wait for the old man. That means no speeders. So for fun i went on a hike through endor and.....That was sooooooooo much better then flying. Speeders take the fun outa visiting places of intrest when u can get to all of em on the planet in 30 mins. If any devs read this post i think from now till JTL comes out u should take speeders away. let the people find out what it was like back when u didnt have ur god mode swoop. Or the old time vets such as myself to remember what it was like. I remember back when i 1st got the game and was a noobie 0/3/0/3 in marksmen and there were no vehicles/mounts in the game. I went on a journey with my friend from one end of naboo to the exact opposite end. Those were the best days ive had in this game... not when i masterd swordsmen or anything them. I know taking out vehicles would effect the jedi village a bit but hey if ur strong enough to get to the village you should be strong enough to walk there and if not then get a group like the old days
*Akie signing off*
I agree that it was a lot of fun walking from place to place and being at risk. When I was a new player, I was about one handed 3, I walked from one outpost on dath to the other. I had no buffs and no armor. I came across my 1st encounter with Rancors, I feared them quite a bit, as rancors are one of the few creatures I knew about in SW. I was amazed when I realised they had rancor lairs, I thought they were just rare creatures that wondered around randomly. Anyway when I got my 1st agro from a lair of rancors, at 1 handed 3 I burst ran out of there as fast as possible lol. I made it to the other outpost without being incapped, and it felt really cool. It was a much better feeling than when you just ride through stuff.
However, if vehicles were taken out completly, or slowed down, going to places like the village just to convert xp would take ages. It takes me a long time to get there on my av21, with all the trees catching it, and the distance. If I had to walk it, it would take way too long. The experience may offer a bit more exitment in terms of being attacked, but for some things getting there as fast as possible is a better option. For hunting though, and if your not in a rush, not using abike is a much more exciting experience.
HardwiredXMan
Tue Sep 14, 2004 5:42 pm
#13
Very good post.
One thing I would suggest is to have more mobs actually knock you off your speeder more often...currently I get knocked off my speeder once every 4 or 5 months......I know it's because my def vs KD and def vs Posture Change is high. on TC, I took a character with no skills out into the wilderness on a speeder and got knocked off by a crazed durnit.....twice near coronet. EVen though, I could get right back up, jump on my speeder with not worries of being killed.
One problem with increasing KD's off of speeders is that currently on live, the speeders are so fast that you actually zip past the area where a spawn occurs before the spawn actually happens. When walking, your not moving that fast and random spawns will either be right in fron of you or on top of you....but with a speeder, everything spawns behind you and with little threat of being attacked.
Too many times I've been arggo'd while on a speeder but the mob could not hit me because I was 90m away by the time it attacked.
Now Nightsisters and SMC's are the only mobs I steer away from because they can totally knock you off your speeder and/or disable it altogether leaving you with only burst run to hopefully save your life.....even though as a master swordsman I can kill any of them with ease....having a speeder near them is a risk because if you happend to only have one speeder and no mount, it's a long, long, long walk back to a city or outpost.
Anyway, I like the idea of having different levels/skills to operate a speeder.....I would also like to be able to modifiy them like the space ships in JTL. So I can have a speeder with an improved engine for speed or improved armor but only up to the level that I have invested skill points into a skill tree.....whyi not have a swoop racer profession.....that would bring a new element to the game.....player events involving swoop races that don't only rely on the route you take or terrain you go over......but the skill level of your speeder with a combination of the parts you choose to put on it. For example, 2 speeders that have the same overall speed but one has a mod for climbing hills faster and one has a mod for faster acceleration would make an interesting race over the deserts of tattooine or dathomir. this is something I would like to see.....so a novice swoop racer would travel faster than walking when on a speeder but not as fast as a master swoop racer. The risk at novice would be greater than at master and not all thousands of people on the server would travel the exact same....alsoa 1 year vet with many resources at their disposal would be unique and different from a 20 minute old new character who was given a swoop by the guild he/she joined......
Basically, a new swoop racer profession is a good idea.....especially with the rumors of the new speeders that are supposedly coming to swg. You want to take that speeder to jabba's place....then spend the skill points to be able to use that speeder otherwise walk or get a mount. This would definitely give people a reason to have a mount again also....Ch's can actually be needed once again.....
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