Force Sensitive Archive
Thread: Where is the MM in this ORPG?
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Niyol
Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:39 pm
#1
So I'm wondering... if this is a MMORPG, why is the jedi grind set up in a way thatencourages, if not outright forcesyou to play solo? Let's take a look at what you have to do in order to become a jedi:
1) Make Your Template: Grind the XP all solo. Buy equipment and skills off npcs. What about AP, you say? Well, there are plenty of viable grinding templates that don't require a master box. Need a buff? Hello buffbots and "/tip 12000 bank" macros.
2) Collect Badges -All done solo. Sure, you could group up but really they only ones who group for the themepark quests are non-combat professions. The actual storyline of the quests is most certainly geared toward the individual effort.
3) Do Village Quests - Most are meant to be done solo. If the player chooses to unlock certain branches then yes, for some quests, it is very helpful to group up but could be alldone solo.
4) FS XP Grind - All done solo. We're talking X number of visits to the village, X number of millions of XP to grind solo which all equala HUGEnumber of hours of total solo gameplay, spanning months.
5) Village Exit Quest - OK,most group for this one but I'm sure there are some who have solo'ed it with the right template. So far, we have maybe 2 hours of grouped play compared tomonths of solo play.
6) Jedi Padawan Quests - All solo.
7) Jedi XP Grinding - All solo. And not only that, you live in constant fear of actually coming into contact with other players during your training and actively seek to avoid interaction.
So, hereyou are. You are now a Jedi Knight. And there is a possibility that you have done this without everuttering a word to another player.
Sure, you could choose to do alot of that grinding grouped with other players... but remember that if you choose this method, the game actuallypenalizes you for wanting tointeract with other players. It will take you alot longer to grind out the requiredxp (less xp per kill) and you will make far less money to support yourself.
So, you want to be a Jedi? Welcome to numbingly dull, repetitive,lonely power gameplay. It's no wonderwhymany Jedi are anti-social powergamers.
Perhaps I'm missing something... tell me I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong.
Cafa
Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:51 pm
#3
/agree
I wish we would see more about the Master-Padawan system.
I would also suggest that guild members do NOT report guild Jedi to the terminals.
Fivo Asia
KRONOS1974
Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:54 pm
#4
i was actualy looking forward to teaming up with other guild padawans or other new jedi. I was excited and thought this would be great.
Then...............
I read all this crap about visibility, even from your own combat droid.
What a crock of <insert word>!
But no matter what i earned my jedi. Ill do what i need to do to make it a good jedi.
They want to "promote" team work and groups yet make everything we do solo. I do not get this at all.
What happens after combat rebalace and what happens to the new jedi? Have to team up with 5 others just to take out a gorg.
DarthLueder
Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:00 pm
#5
/agree.
Several in our guild made Jedi. We almost never see them anymore. Though we do space stuff together, in the ground game for the most part we never see them or even hear much from them. Now I'm soon to join their ranks. I have some really good buds that I'd love to go grind Jedi with. We've been hunting together for over a year and now we must become complete reclusives. I'm not sure how this can be fixed without enabling the Jerk Jedi Gank Squads to roam the galaxy but there must be a way at least guild and like factioned jedi can play TOGETHER without getting the BHs on our trail. Of course, if the devs actually fixed this, the boards would come alive with the screams of people claiming SWG is all about the Jedi. Maybe after the Combat Balance coming Real Soon Now(tm). We do need to keep this complaint going though.
BTW this is item number 4 in the Jedi Correspondant's Top Five Jedi Issues since October 2004.
Several in our guild made Jedi. We almost never see them anymore. Though we do space stuff together, in the ground game for the most part we never see them or even hear much from them. Now I'm soon to join their ranks. I have some really good buds that I'd love to go grind Jedi with. We've been hunting together for over a year and now we must become complete reclusives. I'm not sure how this can be fixed without enabling the Jerk Jedi Gank Squads to roam the galaxy but there must be a way at least guild and like factioned jedi can play TOGETHER without getting the BHs on our trail. Of course, if the devs actually fixed this, the boards would come alive with the screams of people claiming SWG is all about the Jedi. Maybe after the Combat Balance coming Real Soon Now(tm). We do need to keep this complaint going though.
BTW this is item number 4 in the Jedi Correspondant's Top Five Jedi Issues since October 2004.
Message Edited by DarthLueder on 01-12-2005 02:04 PM
Physkoris
Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:09 pm
#6
There's no rule saying you can't participate with the community as a Jedi. There may be some consequences, but it can be done. If you choose not to interact it's your fault...
That's just for the sake of arguing mind you... I personally agree that Jedi shouldn't get visibilty from friends or faction members, because afterall, we want to 'hunt' with our friends not 'grind' alone. Big difference here... Hunting is fun... Grinding is not..
Physkoris
Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:12 pm
#7
axiomBOTD wrote:
No offense but MM means Mass Multi which means more then one person with a lot of people online. It has nothing to do with Groups. If it was it would be MMGPORPG for MMG as mass multi group play online rpg. Just because it is mass multi doesn't mean you have to group or geared to that. It is just for a bunch of people to be able to be on the same game at the same time.
I totally agree with your post but the title has no part in the thread. If 2 people were the only ones on SWG then yes hehehe.
QFE
Niyol
Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:29 pm
#8
axiomBOTD wrote:
No offense but MM means Mass Multi which means more then one person with a lot of people online. It has nothing to do with Groups. If it was it would be MMGPORPG for MMG as mass multi group play online rpg. Just because it is mass multi doesn't mean you have to group or geared to that. It is just for a bunch of people to be able to be on the same game at the same time.
I totally agree with your post but the title has no part in the thread. If 2 people were the only ones on SWG then yes hehehe.
"MM" actually means "Massively Multi-Player." To take the subjective view of your definition is limiting and a surefire recipe for disaster in aMMORPG game. It most certainly implies interaction with other players. This is obviously the intent of the devswho designedthis game... from the crafting system to theeconomy towounds/BF to AP tothe upcoming combat upgrade to theGCWetc... all aregeared toward fostering player interaction. MMORPGs don't keep their playerbase paying a monthly feewith fancy graphics, franchise name recognition and a game system where solo play is the endgame. It's about community. In almost every MMORPG, if you want to access that game's high end content, it involves becoming skilled in not just beatinggame mechanics but by developing social skills as well (joining guilds, forming hunting parties, etc). This is why the jedi path is giant albatross and contradicts the very philosophy this game claims to embrace. To embark on the path of the jedi mean self ostracism from the community for a large number of months, not unlike a prison sentence.
Docbengal
Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:33 pm
#9
Whats qfe mean?
Physkoris wrote:
axiomBOTD wrote:
No offense but MM means Mass Multi which means more then one person with a lot of people online. It has nothing to do with Groups. If it was it would be MMGPORPG for MMG as mass multi group play online rpg. Just because it is mass multi doesn't mean you have to group or geared to that. It is just for a bunch of people to be able to be on the same game at the same time.
I totally agree with your post but the title has no part in the thread. If 2 people were the only ones on SWG then yes hehehe.
QFE
Message Edited by Docbengal on 01-12-2005 04:34 PM
axiomBOTD
Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:38 pm
#11
Niyol wrote:
axiomBOTD wrote:
No offense but MM means Mass Multi which means more then one person with a lot of people online. It has nothing to do with Groups. If it was it would be MMGPORPG for MMG as mass multi group play online rpg. Just because it is mass multi doesn't mean you have to group or geared to that. It is just for a bunch of people to be able to be on the same game at the same time.
I totally agree with your post but the title has no part in the thread. If 2 people were the only ones on SWG then yes hehehe.
"MM" actually means "Massively Multi-Player." To take the subjective view of your definition is limiting and a surefire recipe for disaster in aMMORPG game. It most certainly implies interaction with other players. This is obviously the intent of the devswho designedthis game... from the crafting system to theeconomy towounds/BF to AP tothe upcoming combat upgrade to theGCWetc... all aregeared toward fostering player interaction. MMORPGs don't keep their playerbase paying a monthly feewith fancy graphics, franchise name recognition and a game system where solo play is the endgame. It's about community. In almost every MMORPG, if you want to access that game's high end content, it involves becoming skilled in not just beatinggame mechanics but by developing social skills as well (joining guilds, forming hunting parties, etc). This is why the jedi path is giant albatross and contradicts the very philosophy this game claims to embrace. To embark on the path of the jedi mean self ostracism from the community for a large number of months, not unlike a prison sentence.
Yes interaction with others but doesn't mean it HAS to be group based. You can interact with people doing the solo stuff just as well. Most people who grind jedi still get in solo groups so you have guild chat and group chat. That is why the give you a free slot once you hit jedi because they know you have to do it pretty much solo. Hence the free unlock. So giving the village and jedi as the examples for "where's the MM" is flawed. You get the reward for the doing the village and the trials to get this free slot. You don't HAVE to do the village. SOE didn't say you have to grind the village or you will be banned. It is a choice each player makes if they want it or not and SOE knowing it is solo based gives you the free slot to make your alt however you please. Now if people chose to do solo missions still that is their choice. People still group and have fun. But for me I don't translate Mass Multi-player in expecting to have to be grouped based. There is still plenty of interaction between people even if they solo. They need buffs, ent buffs, need to heal bf at times, etc. A lot of times people like soloing cause finding groups are a pain. Like with wow and eq2 yes you will need to group and i have heard from people a lot that it sucks at times because it can take time to find groups. I like the fact with SWG you don't have to always group.
Niyol
Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:46 pm
#12
I am not advocating that the game should force groups. This is not what I said but what someone else said, or rathertheir flawed interpretation of my original post. I purposely did not propose any changes to the system becauseone, many have already been said over and overand two, to foster an open discussion of these ideas.
I also did not mean this to be just about jedi visability... that is one small part of the equasion.
Here is one simple idea: Instead of penalizing the player for group hunting, instead reward it. Make payouts bigger and change it so you gain just as much xp, if not more, by hunting in a group (real groups, not the current solo group method).
Message Edited by Niyol on 01-12-2005 01:50 PM
axiomBOTD
Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:52 pm
#13
Niyol wrote:
I am not advocating that the game should force groups. This is not what I said but what someone else said, or rathertheir flawed interpretation of my original post. I purposely did not propose any changes to the system becauseone, because many have already been said over and overand two, to foster an open discussion of these ideas.
I also did not mean this to be just about jedi visability... that is one small part of the equasion.
No don't get me wrong. I am complete agreement with your post but if you look at your reasons it is ALL to do with getting jedi. I know a lot of people don't grind their normal professions sololy. Yes some do at times but sometimes they group also. That is the reason i questioned your title. It is all based on jedi. And yes you get that reward of the free slot when done. That is a free $15 a month along with a free $29 for the swg disk and $29 for thejtl disk. There is the DWB which you need a group, the Warren people usually group, the vette people group, hunting people group. I just didn't see how SOE took out the MM when all the points made were all concerning jedi or getting to jedi. Like i said we all know what the jedi path holds and what it entitles. If we choose to do it then we need to accept what the game will be like but you will receive a free alt to make into how you want. I am not flaming or saying you are wrong because i agree that it sucks down the jedi path is completly solo, but we chose it and knew it from the start. I was just questioning and debating how the MM is gone from the ORPG like you say when i think in fact it is very much there.
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