Force Sensitive Archive
Thread: Many quit shortly after becoming Padawans Info you need to avoid this
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Shimm
Fri Dec 24, 2004 6:44 am
#1
You seek to be a Jedi. The thrill of the fight, the hum of the saber, the glory of victory, all these things you seek. But the way of the Jedi is not easy. You should know these things before you embark on the path, for they will help to steel your resolve and prepare you once you achieve the Padawan level.
Yes it's true, though you may not know it. Many jedi quit (the game) once they play a Padawan for a little while. Why ? They learn for the first time what it means to be a Padawan, and considering it for the first time, after having done all the work they did to get to that level, and being at that level not being able to imagine going back to life as a 'normal', they consider there is nowhere else to go - going up is too hard, going back down unthinkable, so they become discouraged and quit.
So here is what you should know before you become a Jedi Padawan. This is raw information about the 'jedi grind'. This grind is extremely arduous and difficult, the hardest thing to do in the game by far. It makes your 'fs grind' seem relatively easy in comparison. Some numbers will help you grasp this.
The Novice Lightsaber box.A deceptively simple box with a seemingly low xp requirement. However you must obtain the xp using no armor, with only a training saber, and using no special attacks (save berserk). Further, the jedi xp is not normal weapons xp - it is roughly the equivalent of 1.5x the combat xp you would get from a similar creature. Since you can only kill the creatures very slowly, you must choose 'easy' creatures. It will take you roughly3-5 hours to grind this box.
Now you think aha ! I can make a 1st generation saber and use a special attack ! Let's forget that you only have a few hundred points of force power at this point, with the attendant need to stop and regenerate force constantly, and look at the raw numbers.
If you intelligently follow the prevailing wisdom, you will seek to climb up one tree of lightsaber proficiency first, to the fourth box - polearms, the double-bladed saber. The first box (200k jedi xp) will take you roughly 8 hours to grind. The 2nd box will take you roughly 12 hours to grind. Compared to the novice box, these boxes will somehow seem to be easier when you look at the xp you are gaining and the fact you are using specials which is fun and more jedi-like.
When you tackle the 3rd box, the reality will begin to set in. This 800k xp box will take you roughly 25 hours of grinding time to obtain. While you are grinding it, you will be tempted to spend xp gained instead on some other boxes just to get some progress, some new addition to your template. At this point you will get most if not all the other novice boxes. you may even detour into getting enhancer 0002, or the like. All those things are fine but you will still have to face the invitable 800k xp hump and make a mental commitment to get this box, eventually. This is a very trying time for you.
Once (if) you get your 3rd box, 0030, and begin on your fourth, possibly the severest challenge you will ever face will smack you like a bucket of cold water. At 1.6 million jedi xp, the fourth box is very hard to get. At this level you will be able to get about 50k jedi xp per hour, if you follow the wisdom on the Jedi forum. Including buffing times, this box will take you roughly 35 hours to get. Yes approximately the equivalent of one full-time work week in the real world. During this box you may be tempted to go insane, and if you do you will not be the first, nor likely the last.
So far, you have spent about85 (EIGHTY-FIVE) hours on the jedi grind, and have saber 0040 to show for it (plus a few novice boxes). If you detoured as most do, you have spent even longer. Now at this point jedi becomes a bit more fun. You havemore powerful sabers, better specials, and you look and feel more like a jedi. At this level you can safely get about 100k xp per hour, though some skilled grinders canup to150k xp per hour.
Each branch in the jedi professions takes 3 million xp to get, so count on about 30 hours of grinding to get each of the remaining 3 branches in sabers. then about 32 more hours to get the master box (YES the master boxes in jedi professions each require 3.2 million jedi xp to get...). So it will take you a rough total of about 215 hours of grinding, or the rough equivalent of about 6 weeks of full-time work in the real world, to master the use of the lightsaber. If you manage to do this: congratulations, you have what it takes to be a jedi, now go spend the 120-150 more hours or so it will take you to finish your template.
I want you to be ready for this, because I don't want you to a) quit the game, or b) get yourself into something you realize later you don't really want to do.
There are a few things that make the jedi grind more difficult than your normal profession grind, and please keep these in mind also.
First, this grind begins just after you have completed what up until now is the hardest grind you've ever done - the fs grind. Many find the fs grind very tiresome and trying and experience a great sense of relief when it's over ('phew my grind is over'). *chuckles*. Then they do the 10 to 16 hour padawan trials ('ok i just need to get this done then I'll be a jedi !'). *grins*. And only then does the truth begin to sink in - the grind has just begun.
Second, the jedi grind must be done exclusively alone, or else you will be hunted by Bounty Hunters. Some think being hunted will be a fun novelty. Well that's up to you. If you gain visibility and have fights with bounty hunters, your grind will be more interesting but also, on average, will take much longer. Keep that in mind. Also note there are many frustrations available to you in this area, such as becoming one of the unlucky 'bugged' ones (who cannot get off the terminals), or gaining visibility by random npc spawns even when you are trying to avoid vis. at all costs. Also odd things like being griefed by the lower end of BH gank squads. Hunting alone is the safest, and fastest method, however it may drive you insane after a while.
Do not quit the game. If you feel you may quit when faced with these things, then quit the fs grind now, or better yet, take it at a more relaxed pace (I'll get there when I get there). Because fun is what a game is about, and lengthy grinding is only fun if you're acertain type of person.
So in short, I hope this information is something you ponder and consider. Steel yourself, prepare your mind and harden your resolve before you begin these tasks, for readiness will be your ally. (Yes I am a Jedi).
Note: Edited to revise the estimate for gaining the novice LS box downward. Efficient methods have been devised, an example of which can be found here
Message Edited by Shimm on 12-30-2004 06:24 AM
Cubsfan22
Fri Dec 24, 2004 6:55 am
#2
The jedi grind never ends...once you get to padawan, you will grind until your mentally insane or numb to SOE. But, then you finally finish your template and you are about to finish the Jedi Knight Trails...you are almost there....then patch X.1 comes out and they yet nerf something else in the Jedi profession and you will be among the many other knights headed out to Dathomir to kill rancors to change your template....welcome back to grinding.
It took me 11 months to "finish" my jedi. From the day he was born on Jan 1 2004 until now...he was reborn 3 times due to permadeath, never did lose a skill box (if I got to close, I shut him down until the deaths decayed), patch 9 came out and I felt I was a weaker jedi than before. Now I am a knight and I never play with him anymore. I play with my master rifleman more than anything...and my BE too...BE is a fun profession...but my jedi knight...he sits in the house waiting...waiting for the day when he might even hold a candle to what a NPC Jedi Knight can do to players.
Yep...have fun with the jedi grind boys and girls......it is something to behold.
YoddaKiller
Fri Dec 24, 2004 7:43 am
#3
OMG!! .... I just got my Training Saber then I read that (i'm going to cry)
Seems to me that all you Jedi Knights deserve to own whatever this game throws at you (including BH gank squads and Elders)
I wish the developers of MMORPG's would get away from these rediculous "Grind" systems and come up with a more creative way of progressing your character. We pay our money to have fun (don't we?) and not to dread logging on to do exactly what we've been doing for the last 6 months. Sure alot of you will say "don't do it then" but with so little content in this game getting to Jedi Knight is all that is left for most of us.
I will try to complete my character but I think SOE should seriously re-consider the whole "Visibility" thing. Making players vertual outcasts while they grind does NOT "A Good Game Make".
This grind will either make me or break me..... SOE take note of player numbers in the coming months.
Seems to me that all you Jedi Knights deserve to own whatever this game throws at you (including BH gank squads and Elders)
I wish the developers of MMORPG's would get away from these rediculous "Grind" systems and come up with a more creative way of progressing your character. We pay our money to have fun (don't we?) and not to dread logging on to do exactly what we've been doing for the last 6 months. Sure alot of you will say "don't do it then" but with so little content in this game getting to Jedi Knight is all that is left for most of us.
I will try to complete my character but I think SOE should seriously re-consider the whole "Visibility" thing. Making players vertual outcasts while they grind does NOT "A Good Game Make".
This grind will either make me or break me..... SOE take note of player numbers in the coming months.
Sneekee
Fri Dec 24, 2004 9:49 am
#4
Cubsfan22 wrote:
...but my jedi knight...he sits in the house waiting...waiting for the day when he might even hold a candle to what a NPC Jedi Knight can do to players.
Yep...have fun with the jedi grind boys and girls......it is something to behold.
Absolutely fully sympathise with u for all the work youve had to put into the jedi template.But im pleased u having alot of fun with your other toons instead.
And many thanks to the threat starter for so clearly spelling out how much dedications required for jedi.
I dont have the time, Im BH/TKM now andI thought BH would be fun but for the excitment I get out of that (which isnt actuallymuch)its certainly not worth the suffering and xp loss caused to player on other end of it, even if some are obnoxious little brats.
Big GCW scaps used to be so, so much more fun.
Fact of the matter is player knights will never be able to hold a candle to what npc knights can do, cos it would be abused by many, Im on the boat of "Jedi shouldnt be in the game but seeing as they are its alright if i have one".
But I dont. And after read this thread I thinks ill omit. Thanks for keeping me in swg, dunno if everybody on my server will though 
.
.Happy Christmas all btw 
Zantzen
Fri Dec 24, 2004 11:05 am
#7
well thanks for your encouragements but ... 10 hours to get novice SL ? humm ... I ve just done 15k xp on Dire Cat on Corellia in 2 hours .. so pls dont feel obliged to dramatize the grind as am sure its already hard enough 
Strykorr
Fri Dec 24, 2004 2:03 pm
#8
Thanks for your post,
However, I think the padawan grind will be easier than the FS grind and let me tell you why. I get 5,000 xp per kill. That translates to 5000/30 for FS XP. Which is roughly 167 fs xp per kill...
Now, I do not grind by using the grenade method. I get about 120-130k FS XP per buff session. From what I heard, once you reach novice sabers you can get 80-100k xp everybuff session. A normal buff session = 3.5 hours. Now sure the first few grinds will be difficult but it will get easier as I proceed up in Jedi. But right now, I cannot increase my xp per buff but as a jedi I can. So after I get the level 4 box (polearms) I will be making what, 400k per buff session? That's equivalent to 4 buff sessions of work for my FS XP.
On a side note, i've also grinded 20 professions out. I really am not afraid of the jedi grind. Sure at first it will suck and will take a lot of time, but it will get better so I am not worried.
Unreal7
Fri Dec 24, 2004 3:03 pm
#9
I am a Bounty Hunter but i am also doing FS stuff on the road to become a jedi. Reading this has actually made me feel bad about all the padawansi have killed for a quick buck 
I havn't killed a padawan in a while since i switched from pistols to TKM but i have killed quite a few in the past. Man i have alot of karma coming my way once i get to jedi........
Tuscany
Fri Dec 24, 2004 4:03 pm
#10
Strykorr wrote:Thanks for your post,However, I think the padawan grind will be easier than the FS grind and let me tell you why. I get 5,000 xp per kill. That translates to 5000/30 for FS XP. Which is roughly 167 fs xp per kill...Now, I do not grind by using the grenade method. I get about 120-130k FS XP per buff session. From what I heard, once you reach novice sabers you can get 80-100k xp every buff session. A normal buff session = 3.5 hours. Now sure the first few grinds will be difficult but it will get easier as I proceed up in Jedi. But right now, I cannot increase my xp per buff but as a jedi I can. So after I get the level 4 box (polearms) I will be making what, 400k per buff session? That's equivalent to 4 buff sessions of work for my FS XP.On a side note, i've also grinded 20 professions out. I really am not afraid of the jedi grind. Sure at first it will suck and will take a lot of time, but it will get better so I am not worried.
To get 80K Jedi xp in one buff session, at about 500xp per kill, you'd have to avg 1 kill in less than 1.5 minutes, every minute of those 3.5 hours. At novice sabre that's not even close to possible. Anyone who's telling you it is, is grossly exaggerating.
G_Menda
Fri Dec 24, 2004 5:16 pm
#11
Can't prove it naturally, but i got 126k jedi xp during a 3h15min buff session as a novice ls. I roamed in Endor. Crazed Gurrecks and Arachne Drones mostly - basically all suitable animals that came into my view. My 1st gen double-bladed saber has a force cost of 5 (it has 41/41 -8 crystal in it), so i never had any downtime. My rate was about 30k/45 minutes (my brandy duration). Never say that something is not possible, it's all about luck (spawn situation, i had much luck) and equipment (good sabre, right foods...). Remember, you can kill many lesser animals (less than 500 jedi xp) in1minute (example: 3-4 animals/minute, that give about 300 jedi xp = 900-1200 jedi xp).
Oddly enough, i have a hard time reaching that figure now that i'm ls 0010
I reached novice ls within a single buff too. Feral Banthas in Tatooine + Citros S.C. + Pikatta Pie + berserk. It can be done. Again i had luck with those Ferals, never took long to find the next lair.
Hylidex
Fri Dec 24, 2004 6:03 pm
#12
Shimm, this is excellent information. Thank you for taking the time to write it.
You and several others have made a point here that is, I think, one of the top five issues of the game, namely, that grinding kills the game.
The best solution to this is a new game design for progression through skills. The second best solution, and the only one we as players have access to, is to avoid grinding whenever possible. For myself, I have to admit that it will take me forever to get through the FS progression. I realized this when I realized that my progress would have to depend entirely on combat, and that, like most BE's my combat skills were marginal at best. (Reflex and Combat trees are the only ones available for a BE to unlock, but that is a different issue.)
Realizing this, I decided not to sweat it, and just to continue playing the game. Surprisingly, I'm still having fun.
Some time back, a friend of mine was cranking through the holo-grind. For months, all he did was grind. I was working on BE at the time, and he picked up BE from his holo. He was shocked how long it took, but he still became master before I did. I poked around, tried to figure out how the cloning system worked, made some pets, and generally had fun. He still hadn't figured out his silent unlock when the system changed, but he had countless free unlocks. He was a Padawan in a very short time. He eventually left the game. He cited personal issues, but I really think he had discovered that what he was doing just wasn't fun.
Meanwhile, I'm still having fun. I do quests, help others with combat missions, make pets and tissues, and even explore from time to time. I drop in on the village to exchange xp as I need to, and my progress is, admittedly, extremely slow. I don't really want an invincible Jedi character, anyway. What I really want are the Force-enhanced skills and a character unlock. But the bottom line is that I'm still having fun.
My point in all this is to agree with you wholeheartedly, especially your suggestion to take a relaxed pace if the grind has become burdensome. Again, thank you for the excellent information and suggestions.
Mellissandria
Fri Dec 24, 2004 6:42 pm
#13
Thanks for the info...
As someone who is facing his final unlock, I intend to continue to stop and smell the Correlian roses. My FS character is a master musician, so as you can imagine, I'm more of an rper than anything else.
The grind is just that, a grind. Sometimes, it's good to step back and take a look at the bigger picture rather than just keep pushing, pushing, pushing. You push, you spin wheels, simple as that.
I am looking forward to, and yet I am dreading the Padawan grind. No one really likes the idea of becoming a Bounty Hunter's favorite target, and I am hoping to avoid this fate early on....It also helps that I have some friends who are Bounty Hunters. ((and I hope I don't wind up being one of the bugged ones...))
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