Force Sensitive Archive
Thread: GET OUT OF AURILIA!
Thank you, Dano, for such a clear and concise summation of the issue. I can only applaud your eloquence and restraint. Wish I could boast of either.
DanoCollins wrote:
I think there is a point somewhere in here that is being missed.
We all pay $15 a month to play, this is true. Adding servers and software to support the AFK'ers doesn't really solve a problem, does it? That would actually promote the behavior.
On the topic of the $15 monthly fee, I would like to offer a perspective.
I have seen the monthly feedefense to this Kill/Rez grind a few times, and I really enjoy the concept. "I pay the money, so I can play how I want."
Actually, since this method has been stated to be an illegal exploit, which I agree with...you lose the rights to doing this, regardless of what you pay.
The $15 access fee does not grant you free license to act how you want. You are paying for the ability to play this game, within a defined rule set. Assuming that the access fee grants you omnipotent power is like assuming that paying City taxes allows you the right to take a dump on the floor of City Hall....so, think of the $15 as a tax to play the game, which you are a guest in, and not the mayor.
I would like to see how this rez grind can be defended as acceptable. People say grenade grinding is an exploit? HA! Last time I checked, I had to be at the keyboard, tossing grenades, buying grenades, unpacking grenades, converting XP...you know, PLAYING THE GAME...in order to grenade grind.
This rez method is an exploit, and I am glad they are viewing it as such.
There is a difference between taking a shortcut, and plain cheating...and now you know the difference.
GraySeven wrote:
Macro's are not an exploit, 3rd party programs are. Using macro's while afk is not an exploit, as macro's are part of the game, and afk is part of the game. Neither is unintended, and therefor not bannable offenses. Look at the TOS for an idea of what are bannable offenses.
Blocking content in any form is bannable, so if someone parks a vehicle on an NPC to prevent access to it, or places a structure in such a manner as to block people from something you can /report them and the waypoint and it will be taken care of.
Some jerk parked their disabled AV-21 in front of the Coronet starport on top of some NPC's whinning because a Nightsister disabled it and refusing to move it. It was gone shortly after it was /reported.
Yes, its annoying, but its not illegal as long as you can still access the content. Nowhere in the TOS does it sayanything about your right to fast load in times.
Remember, exploits are taking advantage of something unintended by the game. AFK macros have been around since Beta, and will be around until they get rid of recursive macroing in some manner.
I think you are missing the poijnt altogether, Gray; the Devs have STATED that AFK grinding is an exploit, punishable by suspension and even ban. The DEVS have stated this. It is in the threads, and has been remarked upon by many people.
It isn't the macro that is the problem, because they are implemented to simplify the game. Just like craft macroing so all you have to do is sit there and click on the resources while a dozen crafting stations run consecutively. Do you see the difference? Those craft grinders are not setting up a macro that not only grinds FOR them, but converts the xp while they are away, so that they essentially put their character on autopilot for five days and come back a full-fledged Padawan!
Thus the term I have coined, autopilot idiots.
Now, since the Devs said it is an exploit, and they are the ones who would know, I think I will take their word for it. TH himself has used phrases like, "...not in the spirit of the game," and the like. Does that not TELL you something? Why would you even WANT to be a part of an online gaming community that doesn't even play?
Anyway, that's all I really have to say on the subject. My apologies if I offend.
Nyurra wrote:
Man,I couldn't agree more. In fact, this whole strand has discussed what is a pet peave with me. These guys are saying it doesn't effect us. Shouldn't bother us. Here's why it bothers me. I am TKM and MCH and now FS. I have never afk'd anything to get myself one bit of experience. I have worked my way to where I am. To see someone else with the TKM title, who merely typed in a macro, set their guy up, and watched tv the rest of the day is insulting. It shouldn't matter but in this game it does for me. I actually worked to get my guys where he is. I can where my title with pride. They did nothing to obtain their title other than, as you said, "abuse the good will of the developers". Do their actions effect me? Yeah. I wouldn't mind as much if the title above their name was changed from TKM to AFK-TKM, or Jedi Knight to AFK-Jedi Knight. Then I would be happy. We would know who deserves the title and who doesn't.
Having said that...I am not mad at them. I just feel sorry for them. I think it's a pathetic show of a lack of character.
My two bits. For whatever it's worth.
DivNotDed wrote:
The difference is the OP plays the game, you on the other hand starts a program then walks away. Your the guy IRL that says hey I was on this bus first, tough cookies old lady its the Transit districts fault they don't have enough seats. Courtesy is not a game mechanic it comes from the player, and you degrade yourself, no one here has to do it for you.
There is nothing wrong with using macros. They are part of the game and are intended to be used. As for doing the whole thing AFK, i dont see how this is possible without using a 3rd party program and is therefore wrong.
To the person who said about grinding TKM at the keyboard: I profess to using macros a lot in this game, mainly to help myself not forget anything (especially useful for pvp and pve - intimidate/centre of being etc), but that does in no way mean you are a better person for this. So you sat there and pressed your spin attack button for hours, i simply got the computer to press it for me. I was still at the computer, watching my progress, checking i was ok, and chatting to my guild and my friends IG. I still had to run after all the creatures that warped 100m so that i got my xp and i still had to go to and from the mission terminals and trawl through all the missions to find the ones i wanted.
As for the people who stand on Paemos. People want you to move, so just be polite and move over a bit. There is so much room you can use around him and still be close enough for your converse macro to work. Luckily, i have never come across people doing this on Farstar, but even if i did, it would not bother me. During a hardcore buff session, i will visit the village 4 times usually, which means i will only have to deal with this problem approximately once an hour. This means it causes me little stress. For those who do get stressed by this, simply use /target and /converse. These 2 simple commands take no time to type and will save you a lot of hassle.
Cant think of anything else to write atm, so i'm gonna stop now, but seeing as i've seen it so much during this post:
Just my two cents
Message Edited by Paulo187 on 04-05-2005 02:57 AM
Here is the problem I have. AFK Buffbots are not being stopped. Heck, I see more than ever before. The Med Center tumblers are alive and well. I still see people AFK camping spawn sites for loot and xp....
I agree completely with your post. The same people crying exploit are the same ones who use afk entertainers for mind buffs, afk buffbots for doctor buffs, and afk group leaders for solo groups.They feel this method is MUCH worse than all the other afk methods combined so it gets labeled an exploit more often. They also feel jealousy towards the people doing it because deep down they would rather be doing it afk as well.
And yet this one specific AFK grind is being called an exploit, supposedly by the Devs but not only can't I find an actual Dev comment on this, when I queried the CSR in General Chat, he said they didn't deal with in game Macros. Actually he said they didn't support in game Macros, but the gist I got of his beating around the bush on the subject was that they (the CSR's) had nothing to do with it.
So, we have people saying that one specific issue of AFK grinding is being called an exploit while a dozen others are glossed over. Why? Because its used for FSXP? Does it use something outside of the standard in game Macro system?
What makes it an exploit and no other instance of afk grinding an exploit?
Message Edited by JOEFNERAT on 04-04-2005 11:20 PM
DanoCollins wrote:
I would like to see how this rez grind can be defended as acceptable. People say grenade grinding is an exploit? HA! Last time I checked, I had to be at the keyboard, tossing grenades, buying grenades, unpacking grenades, converting XP...you know, PLAYING THE GAME...in order to grenade grind.This rez method is an exploit, and I am glad they are viewing it as such.
There is a difference between taking a shortcut, and plain cheating...and now you know the difference.
I have yet to meet a db/rezzer that was not at the keyboard...
Hyndman1800 wrote:
DanoCollins wrote:
I would like to see how this rez grind can be defended as acceptable. People say grenade grinding is an exploit? HA! Last time I checked, I had to be at the keyboard, tossing grenades, buying grenades, unpacking grenades, converting XP...you know, PLAYING THE GAME...in order to grenade grind.
This rez method is an exploit, and I am glad they are viewing it as such.
There is a difference between taking a shortcut, and plain cheating...and now you know the difference.
I have yet to meet a db/rezzer that was not at the keyboard...
Are you sharing your specific experience, or are you suggesting that this can't be done AFK..because it can.
JOEFNERAT wrote:
Here is the problem I have. AFK Buffbots are not being stopped. Heck, I see more than ever before. The Med Center tumblers are alive and well. I still see people AFK camping spawn sites for loot and xp....
I agree completely with your post. The same people crying exploit are the same ones who use afk entertainers for mind buffs, afk buffbots for doctor buffs, and afk group leaders for solo groups.They feel this method is MUCH worse than all the other afk methods combined so it gets labeled an exploit more often. They also feel jealousy towards the people doing it because deep down they would rather be doing it afk as well.
And yet this one specific AFK grind is being called an exploit, supposedly by the Devs but not only can't I find an actual Dev comment on this, when I queried the CSR in General Chat, he said they didn't deal with in game Macros. Actually he said they didn't support in game Macros, but the gist I got of his beating around the bush on the subject was that they (the CSR's) had nothing to do with it.
So, we have people saying that one specific issue of AFK grinding is being called an exploit while a dozen others are glossed over. Why? Because its used for FSXP? Does it use something outside of the standard in game Macro system?
What makes it an exploit and no other instance of afk grinding an exploit?
Message Edited by JOEFNERAT on 04-04-2005 11:20 PM
I think you both should go back and see the posts again, because the people expressing their opinions here are fed up with AFK players, not the use of macros. This has been stated perhaps a dozen times, and the idea remains the same: if you are using your character the way it was intended, such as entertainers playing or dancing while AFK, this isn't an issue.
If, on the other hand, you are grinding the elite profession of the entire system with an AFK macro, while exploiting a stated bug in the game system for which the CSRs have instructions to PERMANENTLY ban your character, with the intent of getting a character profession the Devs have publically stated was meant to be highly restructed and difficult to get...YOU ARE A DAMN EXPLOITER YOU N00B IDIOT!
Now then, if you would like to try this again, why don't you actually go and READ the posts about the difference between utilizing an AFK macro within the spirit of the system, and exploiting a hole in the code.
G'wan now! Shoo shoo!