Force Sensitive Archive
Thread: CU no more SWG
RebalMarineHunter
Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:00 am
#53
Jedi 1.5x stronger than best normal player = GREAT!!! Just because you chose to be one, does not mean you get to destroy everyone elses game because of it. RP your Jedi, enjoy that he can take any normal player and let go of your delusians of grandur.
CU looks like other MMORPG's? Well, never played those, just this one because I'm a SW fan, so I could care less what it resembles.
The new icons and such take you from the SW universe? NO, how in the world do they do that? Because they look like other MMORPG's? Hardly, its the SW universe because thats what it is, not because it has stick figure icons or artwork.
Hard to be a Jedi, want it to be more like KOTOR? Well, how about this, keep Jedi hard, shoot, make it harder but if you want to play a game like KOTOR, go play KOTOR. I played both I and II, great games, but they are not SWG and I hope SWG never becomes like it more than it already is in regards to Jedi. (well, actually I loved how robes and crystals worked in KOTOR, talking in reference to making jedi and everyones profession).
Jedi should be hard to be, Jedi should be risky to be and Jedi should be oppressed and pushed from the light of day. Current systems in place have done well to support this ideal.
NOTE: Not most pleased with the icons and splashy effects, hope they get toned down, but that is not a reason to leave the game.
I have played the CU, played it a ton. Have played SWG since the first week way too much. LIke the CU, like the changes (mostly) and I am looking forward to its realease as well as that of ROTW.
Jason_Solo
Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:17 am
#54
Paulo187 wrote:
Derelict59 wrote:
RebalMarineHunter wrote:Jedi 1.5x stronger than best normal player = GREAT!!! Just because you chose to be one, does not mean you get to destroy everyone elses game because of it. RP your Jedi, enjoy that he can take any normal player and let go of your delusians of grandur.CU looks like other MMORPG's? Well, never played those, just this one because I'm a SW fan, so I could care less what it resembles.Just a couple of things. And my new profile doesn't mean I lack game experience. I had to quit for about 5months, but I have played since week 2 and did have a jedi prior to my absence.Any supposed SW fan would know that a Jedi is better than a run of the mill soldier, hell... better than 20 soldiers easy. If they insist on making jedi this close to a regular profession you might as well give everyone the option to be one from a starting profession. The amount of time and effort required to become a jedi is a hell of a lot more than any other crafting/combat profession. Why should someone who spends 2 days grinding to become master "insert profession here" be almost as strong as someone who works for 2 months to get a NOVICE profession.I don't see how jedi can "ruin" your game. Please elaborate (sp) on this. My guild members routinely take out high level jedi with ease due to their tactics and grouping ability. To say jedi have ruined your game is the equivalent of saying BHs have ruined the jedi's game which is ridiculous.Anyway I'm through with my rant.
welcome back and well said. i agree with the fact that jedi should be better than normal profs by more than 1.5x, but something needs to be changed from how it is now. my way of changing it is to ban EVERYONE who fight clubs cuz it is lame!
Actually, no they shouldn't be all that much better than everyone else. There are no Masters to train young Padawans. Consequently, any new "Jedi" that come out will not have the benefit of thousands of years of training regimens and such to draw from in their learning. So any new "Jedi" aren't ACTUAL Jedi (i.e. the ones you see in Ep 1-3). These new "Jedi" are likened to Luke in ROTJ. Granted he can take on a mob of Jabba soldiers no problemo. And get him all pissy and vengeful and he can defeat a Sith Lord that is coming to grips with the fact that maybe he chose the wrong way of life. But no way in heck is he gonna solo a Krayt dragon (At least by standing toe to toe with it). He's not gonna be able to kill a ton of elite Bounty Hunters coming for him without help. He's gonna get his butt kicked occasionally.
GraySeven
Wed Apr 06, 2005 9:45 am
#55
The problems with Jedi are myriad, and it appears these problems are being addressed, but let me make a few points...
- Jedi are supposed to be rare. The biggest mistake SOE made was in telling people how to become FS with the Holocron Debacle. The second biggest mistake was in the revamp, and letting people know how to become FS there too.
- Due to this rarity, the actual becomming of Jedi was supposed to be enormously difficult. SOE's 3rd biggest mistake was in getting rid of Jedi Permadeath. This was the only real way to keep actual Jedi rare and could still be implemented today. You didn't lose your Jedi slot, you just went back to zero to start anew. Unfortunately the whinners ruined this control on Jedi.
- Due to the rarity and permadeath, Jedi were extrememly unbalanced when compared to other combat professions, and this was by design. Taking down an actual Jedi was next to impossible without a huge group and much planning. But, because of the prolifferation of Jedi appearing once the manner of opening the FSCS was made public, the Jedi imbalance had to be addressed to all the BH's a chance at taking them down.
In short, a large number of mistakes made the supposedly rare Jedi (the original quote was that there should only be a handful of jedi per server at any given time, wish I could find it) disgustingly common instead. Right now, I can go to any server and in 30 minutes give you the names of 3 Jedi on that server.
Because Jedi are now common, and are being used in PvP and the GCW, their strength needs to be brought in line with the other professions. Because of the difficulty in becomming Jedi (and is grinding really difficult?) they get a bonus over the regular professions, but it can't be overwhelming without unbalancing combat completely. And so your Jedi is worth 1.5 of equivallent characters.
Would you rather go back to a mystery system and Permadeath, or would you rather have a chance to play a Jedi that isn't a death-dealing powerhouse?
Shensen
Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:01 am
#56
I personally would prefer permadeath AND still be only 1.5x
My best friend unlocked pre 9 during the holo days and was one of the first on our server. He hunted alone, would not go on guild hunts/outtings with his Jedi (would attend with his alt tho) and he had to run from almost any PC on radar since at that time if anyone of opposing faction saw the jedi doing anythng remotely jedi-like they got TEF'd. Rebels were selling out rebel jedi locations to imps and visa versaand there was permadeath. I never even saw my friends jedi unless I was at his house watching him play. Now THAT was how to keep jedi rare, THAT was a tough life for Jedi. What they have now is a joke and I laugh everytime I hop onto the Jedi forum and see them complaining about this that and the other thing. Yeah they should fix FRS, but they all (soon to be we) have it way frikken easy.
They wont change anything tho - too many people have Jedi already and many more are working towards it or will buy the game to work towards it. Yeah I'm a pessimist. 
Jedi_Xan
Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:30 am
#57
You must unlearn what you have learned, and adapt to a new game strategy. In TC5 I am at level iv 2 hand and 1 hand. I am waiting to see what the elite swordsman will be like. I am excited overall, and besides, the xp increases for the mobs are kick arse. Yeah, a gorg might kill you in CU, but how many ever got 800 xp from a gorg in live.
Cafa
Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:54 am
#58
Jason_Solo wrote:
That's the friggin' point. The sheer number of Jedi on any one server is ludicrous. The timeline this game is set in (AS A ROLE PLAYING GAME the timeline is vital) should prohibit Jedi from even EXISTING. The game was designed to be the lives of the rest of the people in the galaxy. It wasn't designed as a Jedi warzone. This isn't the Clone Wars. This is the Galactic Civil War. There ARE no Jedi in this timeline except for Yoda....and he's hiding. Zip...zilch...nada. There are only TWO Sith Lords...which according to the rules of the Sith is how it should be. The Jedi are extinct. Allowing anyone to become Jedi in this galaxy went against everything this game was designed as. It's an RPG set in a Non-Jedi timeline. If you want to be a Jedi, go play KOTOR or Dark Forces 17: Jedi Knight 13: Kyle Katarn Gets a Poop Bag.
OneBH wrote:
Yeah,i am glad i am getting all my FS now,the CU will make it impossible.
Why don't you go play KOTOR? I pay for THIS game. Next time you feel you need to control someone look in the mirror and role play there.
Last time I checked, Bounty Hunters in the movies took bounties on criminals, not Jedi. Jedi killed Jedi. Although, I noticed that Jedi killed a few BH's in canon. Just because the devs let you gang up 5 on 1 you think you're special. BH's are nothing more than the same mentality of players that loved killing AT-ST's with NOTHING to lose.
There weren't a lot of things in the movies. So what.
Shensen
Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:03 am
#59
Ok please correct me if I'm mistaken, but as far as movies go the only bounties I can recall was Han Solo (ok criminal since he was a smuggler) via Greedo (Ep4) and later BobaFett (Ep5)and Amidala (politicians suck, but I wouldn't call them criminal lol) by Jango and the shapeshifter (Ep2)...so if you are basing that statement soley on the bounty for Han, then it isn't really fair since I'm sure there were plenty of bounties we never knew about on characters that were insignificant to the storyline. I'm also fairly certain that given the proposed timeline of SWG it is not completely out of the question to think the empire would use BHs to hunt Jedi.
Cafa wrote:
Jason_Solo wrote:
That's the friggin' point. The sheer number of Jedi on any one server is ludicrous. The timeline this game is set in (AS A ROLE PLAYING GAME the timeline is vital) should prohibit Jedi from even EXISTING. The game was designed to be the lives of the rest of the people in the galaxy. It wasn't designed as a Jedi warzone. This isn't the Clone Wars. This is the Galactic Civil War. There ARE no Jedi in this timeline except for Yoda....and he's hiding. Zip...zilch...nada. There are only TWO Sith Lords...which according to the rules of the Sith is how it should be. The Jedi are extinct. Allowing anyone to become Jedi in this galaxy went against everything this game was designed as. It's an RPG set in a Non-Jedi timeline. If you want to be a Jedi, go play KOTOR or Dark Forces 17: Jedi Knight 13: Kyle Katarn Gets a Poop Bag.
OneBH wrote:
Yeah,i am glad i am getting all my FS now,the CU will make it impossible.
Why don't you go play KOTOR? I pay for THIS game. Next time you feel you need to control someone look in the mirror and role play there.
Last time I checked, Bounty Hunters in the movies took bounties on criminals, not Jedi. Jedi killed Jedi. Although, I noticed that Jedi killed a few BH's in canon. Just because the devs let you gang up 5 on 1 you think you're special. BH's are nothing more than the same mentality of players that loved killing AT-ST's with NOTHING to lose.
There weren't a lot of things in the movies. So what.
GraySeven
Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:33 am
#60
Nyurra, the only problem with the "random chance" method is that everyone deserves the same chance as everyone else to have their character become FS...
My problem isn't FS either. Heck, I think the introduction of the FS lines gives a great tweak to characters and templates, and I really don't mind if the entire galaxy becomes FS...
Jedi are my problem. The path to Jedi is well documented and that is the problem. As long as you know HOW, you will have vast amounts of people treading the path. I avoided going to the warren simply because I knew those were the last two badges I needed, and managed to fight the temptation til just recently.
While I like the way its done (I've actually used my Master Rifle to help a couple of people beat Mellichae), I shouldn't know what the process is to actually become a Padawan...
So, keep the current system to become FS (its fun, really) and keep the Village around (again, fun, if a pain), but there needs be more than just "get 6 lines" to become a Padawan. Perhaps some unlisted quests, to encourage actual game play instead of grinding. And as far as gaining boxes, I really like the JTL pilot way, with quests involved to gain boxes. I don't like the forced grouping involved in those, especially for a Jedi (since they are supposed to be hiding) but a system to tailor the quests to the number of individuals involved seems to be in progress for the CU, so it could go here as well.
As far as Permadeath, well, I still wish it were around. It would definately cut down on the Jedi grinders in places like the Warren and the Geo Caves, but only above a certain level. In other words, give Padawans the time to figure out their Jedi abilities and make their mistakes and include Permadeath at higher levels, and give a reset at each new level of progression to reward those who make it through....
Of course, I doubt these radical ideas will ever see the light of day....
thepulse
Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:50 am
#61
Ive been playing for about a year and have 6 or 7 toons everything from melee stacking toons to BH/Pistoleer,BH/Carbine,and Commando.. and a few FS guys.
My complaint was Buffs at 2800 was a joke as a Master Swordsman,Master Fencer ,Master Brawler with my 90% sliced armor you could take onjust about anythingsolo!!! yeah thats kinda corny !!! So really im glad to see them gone for the most part feeling like superman on steroids was never a good idea, in fact i loose interest and as a BH Pistoleer with the sliced armor and DOT sonicblaster with a mean mind poison PVP for me was simple Macro Eye Shot Eye Shot mabey a few Fan Shots and a torso shot if i wanted ya to wound before i sent ya to clone center, and outsideof Knights its really not a challenge or even fun anymore so all these changes are good in my book!!!
Even though my Rare and expensive Dot Weapons are gone in Cu all them 90% sliced suits of comp are gonna be gone and where talkin millions of credits just gone bye bye. and im willing to say oh well cause Uber = Lame game play!!!.
Im also very excited cause so many skills where worthless to even have like how many people really ever lost a PVP session vrs a pikeman, or Carbineer or seen two melee Stackers (TKA,Fencer) Beat on each other for 15 minutes like some Rocky Movie just to finally get bored and stop,, ive yet to see where this is fun!!!!????
And in defense of the Jedi Why should a melee stacker Own a Knight when the melee skills you can master in a few days and Jedi's take months if not a year or more
and so yes jedi should be powerfull but not over The top powerfull, it is pathetic to see a knight take on the whole server and win. At least now with new weapons and some skills getting a pretty good bump like pikeman,carbineer ect it might make the game more enjoyable and not motivate some like myself who are doing the FS grind cause frankly im bored with everything else and for some unexplained reason i really do like the game and keep paying the bill for it..
As for the Jedi problem i dont see a problem in fact even make jedi easy to obtain just make it a real pain to be one Remember the old saying be carefull what you wish for it may come true that should be the moto for a jedi weed out the ones who just want to have a glowey stick and those who are ready to grasp and explore that part of the game, im not a jedi but yet i find it annoying that most new jedi dont like PVP or even want to PVP or parts of the game Jedi opens up Im dumb founded!!!! what you want a saber to kill Rock Mites, and Sevorts Are you kidding me????? I mean the grind is like the Bataan Death march and its pointless cause really all the village did was let alot more people get the robes who really havnt changed the aspect of the game cause they dont want to get involved with whole GCW thing and so there really not even seen or heard from till they complete the knight trials then there loud and proud and powerfull.. Just a thought but Jedi should be not a grind but a toons life style i suppose im saying that not all Tiger Cubs make it to adult life only the strong and smart survive so make padi's full time overt!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
And Ill guarantee you can have jedi as a start prof or stick one in everyones account and 90% wont log on to it cause in my veiw a jedi should be a PVP prof and it should be the hardest prof to be in game but shouldnt be such a grind nobody enjoys this is supposed to be a game and you can make it a 2 year grind and you will still have people using nades, macro's or whatever just to make the Force XP req just so they can go kill ewoks with a saber GIVE US BH's something to torture is the answer and we will keep the population in check with those - force points kills and i think those dweebs that want a saber cause its cool will get tired of it when they spend 90% of there time in clone center sure they may leave game but do we really want those type of people to be here anyway and do we really want them to be a jedi??? This idea would force padi's to work together and hunt together and make them group in pvp if there smart instead of hiding on endor or dath. affriad of ending up on our terminals....
Message Edited by thepulse on 04-06-2005 11:53 AM
Message Edited by thepulse on 04-06-2005 11:56 AM
Message Edited by thepulse on 04-06-2005 12:25 PM
Jason_Solo
Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:58 pm
#62
Cafa wrote:
Jason_Solo wrote:That's the friggin' point. The sheer number of Jedi on any one server is ludicrous. The timeline this game is set in (AS A ROLE PLAYING GAME the timeline is vital) should prohibit Jedi from even EXISTING. The game was designed to be the lives of the rest of the people in the galaxy. It wasn't designed as a Jedi warzone. This isn't the Clone Wars. This is the Galactic Civil War. There ARE no Jedi in this timeline except for Yoda....and he's hiding. Zip...zilch...nada. There are only TWO Sith Lords...which according to the rules of the Sith is how it should be. The Jedi are extinct. Allowing anyone to become Jedi in this galaxy went against everything this game was designed as. It's an RPG set in a Non-Jedi timeline. If you want to be a Jedi, go play KOTOR or Dark Forces 17: Jedi Knight 13: Kyle Katarn Gets a Poop Bag.
OneBH wrote:Yeah,i am glad i am getting all my FS now,the CU will make it impossible.Why don't you go play KOTOR? I pay for THIS game. Next time you feel you need to control someone look in the mirror and role play there.
Last time I checked, Bounty Hunters in the movies took bounties on criminals, not Jedi. Jedi killed Jedi. Although, I noticed that Jedi killed a few BH's in canon. Just because the devs let you gang up 5 on 1 you think you're special. BH's are nothing more than the same mentality of players that loved killing AT-ST's with NOTHING to lose.
There weren't a lot of things in the movies. So what.
Bzzzzz. Thanks but I actually have NO interest in being a Jedi in this game.
I started playing this game at launch because it was advertised as "the lives of everyone else...the ones behind the scenes...not the super heroes". If I wanted to play as a Jedi, I WOULD go play Kotor....as it is, I've never played that game, and only played the Kyle Katarn games cuz they were fun and interesting with a good story...and the Deathmatches were fun too.
But the reason I play THIS game is because I love the movies and wanted to play as one of the people in the GCW...the war everyone came to know and love from the original series. I wanted to be a Bounty Hunter to take bounties on other characters. I figured there wouldn't be a lot of Jedi so in order to give BHs something to do, they would open up player bounties on people that broke the law....The Imperial law or the law of the Underworld.
Apparently, SOE decided that in order to give BH something to do they should give more people access to Jedi....timeline and canon be damned. Not only that, but they decided that people that stand toe-to-toe with something should be able to withstand 20 laser blasts in 30 seconds from a super powered pistol....this in a "world" that is BASED on Pistol fights...not fist fights.
I'm not going to quit playing this game because I love Star Wars. I love shooting things with my pistol and I love the music and the environment....even if they can't render a city planet cuz it would slow everyone down to the point of immobility. I love this game and want it to be a realistic depiction of life in the SW galaxy during the GCW.
I have nothing against the people that play as Jedi. In fact, I have some pretty good friends that are Jedi. I have something against the system that allows them to play as Jedi. If there were no Jedi, every combat profession would be on the same or nearly same levels when it came to PvP. So everyone would have challenge in every fight. What's wrong with that? Who needs UBER? Do you? Does it make you feel superior? At a GAME?
Edit: I think the idea of Vader coming for the Jedi cruising around in plain sight with no worries is a fabulous idea. Maybe Mara Jade also. And 30 or so Dark Trooper Elites....with AT-ATs....and Orbital Bombardments.
Message Edited by Jason_Solo on 04-07-2005 12:04 AM
deneric
Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:58 pm
#63
Edit: I think the idea of Vader coming for the Jedi cruising around in plain sight with no worries is a fabulous idea. Maybe Mara Jade also. And 30 or so Dark Trooper Elites....with AT-ATs....and Orbital Bombardments.
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well the problem with that is if vader came and got killed the game would pretty much be over. there would be no rebels,no imperials,,just neutral.maybe the republic and gangs,but still that'd wreck the SW time line,luke would nvr become master jedi,vader would nvr become a good guy right when he died, and thay'd probly nvr know leia was luke's sister.
oh and the orbital bombardments woul be unfair
btw i know the timeline's alrdy messed up but those r vital parts in star wars,much more vital then the amount of jedi there r
Message Edited by deneric on 04-10-2005 04:00 PM
DarthRevan2099
Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:42 pm
#64
I titaly agree i think that this CU will make thing harder people will quit. This is turning to EQ2 and WOW if i wanted to go play that i would. this game is unique it should stay as it is. I agree with some changes though like new weapons no DOT new HAM but the wind up cool down time is really lame if i want that i would go play Final fantasy XI. If the dev were smart they would scrap this. At least publish it over the summer it needs alot of work. Most people who do like this are those who already have their Jedi i am 3 more quest away from jedi i worked hard to get gthis far and to lose it all is not fair.
MaliceMarcus
Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:54 pm
#65
DarthRevan2099 wrote:
I titaly agree i think that this CU will make thing harder people will quit. This is turning to EQ2 and WOW if i wanted to go play that i would. this game is unique it should stay as it is. I agree with some changes though like new weapons no DOT new HAM but the wind up cool down time is really lame if i want that i would go play Final fantasy XI. If the dev were smart they would scrap this. At least publish it over the summer it needs alot of work. Most people who do like this are those who already have their Jedi i am 3 more quest away from jedi i worked hard to get gthis far and to lose it all is not fair.
This game is only unique in the fact that it is the most broken MMO out right now (not including Matrix online ). I have played since launch and it has been bugged and borked since day 1. PvP is a joke and needs a serious re-alignment. I see the trend of old school players wanting the CU and the newbies liking their "easy kill button".
). I have played since launch and it has been bugged and borked since day 1. PvP is a joke and needs a serious re-alignment. I see the trend of old school players wanting the CU and the newbies liking their "easy kill button".