Force Sensitive Archive
Thread: If we really wanted to keep jedi rare...
Shensen
Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:09 am
#40
I don't think it's a bad thing. The hard core PvPers will always do whatever they think they have to in order to effectively compete. I think some high level content with an 'epic quest' type feel would be cool. I dunno if anyone has played Dark Ages of Camelot , but they have a PvP element and plenty of high end content with special artifacts you can quest for, Master levels which go above and beyond reaching the top (level 50) and provide extra abilities to enhance the player for PvP. I think they are a lot of great concepts out there already- they just need to open their eyes and and start trying to fit some of these concepts into an SWG appropriate mold.
Totally off topic here, but has anyone read anything about when the next part of the story arch (downed pilot) may be starting? 
Jedi_Xan
Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:51 am
#41
I got flamed out of existence almost over my idea, but as I read, it is about the same as what everyone else is saying.... here it is in a nutshell.
step 1 ** visibility is gained and the jedi is then placed on the BH terms (current)
step 2 ** bounty hunters have failed to stop the jedi visibility. the empire orders elite dark nova troopers to "apprehend" the jedi. (ie -- try to kill him).
step 3 ** either the Jedi has gotten away at this point, or was previously killed and did not learn. The jedi has obtained a "max" visibility and is now gotten the attention of the emperor. The emperor dispatches vader himself to rid the empire of this jedi.
The affected jedi can fight vader, but this is a very tough battle.
Vader 500-750K HAM, 95% resists, and unlimited Force pool. MasterJedi strength and speed,with full control of all aspects of the Force. And he hits like a frieght train. 3000-5000 damage.
To beat Vader and escape permadeath, the jedi must reduce Vader to 50% Ham. If the jedi loses, he is finished and is killed by Darth Vader.
Oh, one last thing.
If the victim Jedi is grouped when Vader shows, all other group members are instantly slain and cloned. The victim jedi will have to do this alone.
To escape this onslaught, the Jedi need only to go into hiding till which time he can be removed from the terms (ie fall off the terms).
Message Edited by Jedi_Xan on 04-06-2005 01:52 PM
MinimeAbala
Wed Apr 06, 2005 4:09 pm
#42
like they said, the only way to make jedi truley rare is it to put a cap on the amount of jedi per server or something. you can make jedi take 4 years of hardcore grinding to get if you want, but the fact is, after 4 years, there will be alot, becuase alot of people will have put in the time. if you make something available, no matter how hard it is to obtain, there will eventually be alot of them unless theres a cap in place.
thepulse
Wed Apr 06, 2005 7:12 pm
#43
You see i wonder how many like the feeling of the game and are really just doing the jedi grind for something to do i mean ever since solo group payouts been nerfed ive been kinda broke and really dont like grinding that much but i do alot of PVP i just think jedi should be more intense and less of a PVE critter killer.
and really dont like grinding that much but i do alot of PVP i just think jedi should be more intense and less of a PVE critter killer.And if ya really look at it everyone who pays has the right to be a jedi but why should somebody who works or goes to school or just doesnt want to power grind every day for 22 weeks just to power grind more not have a chance to be a jedi?? I think the devs need more about content and purpose of a jedinot to see who cangrind the most. just make it a wanna be skill for the type of people that can do it like i couldnt be an artisan, or any crafter profi know i tried and was very bored, and cheers to those that can do it and do it well i respect that.
Everyone wants jedi for whatever reason and thats cool but i just wish jedi was so intense and hard people would just say hey i dont like PVP im tired of cloning 5 times a day cause im not into pvp i just want to cruise around and kill critters mabey a TKM would be better for me and give them places to go and things to do...
Pepcidius
Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:04 pm
#44
Things is, and no offense to anyone, but it's very easy to look at the system AFTER your a jedi, and say: "Oh, they should do this, this, and this, and make it take 50 weeks to make jedi." SOE won't implement something like this, because it still comes down to customer base. People won't doit at all if it's a 50 week grind, they'll move on to a different game. What makes you people that have already unlocked more deserving of being a jedi then the people that haven't? Is it that you have more play time/ect.? I realize that MMORPG's reward people with more play time, that's life. But sitting back after you accomplished something and saying that you want them to change it so that no-one else can ever accomplish it isn't a solution.....
The problem is that there isn't enough content for other classes in the game. Most of the valuable dropped loot is for Jedi only even. If SOE make some of the other professions a little more interesting, you wouldn't have the huge amounts of people wanting to be jedi.
Shensen
Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:06 am
#45
That would rock seeing Vader kick some @ss instead of being a wallflower at the retreat.
LaserDood
Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:10 am
#46
I don't think most of us want jedi to be rare, just not running around C-NET or the MO waving their sabers.
Maybe instead of moving the jedi back in time, just let it progress to after ROTJ, and let us live the events
such as the building anddefeat of the next death star, good content and lots of fun.
Then continuity ceases to be an issue (with the movies at least) and having jedi in the galaxy again isn't a big
deal either.
thepulse
Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:51 am
#47
its not the timeline,its not even the grind, Jedi is here to stay and theres gonna be a ton of them!!!
and there aint anything thats gonna change that.
You hear older jedi's complain,you hear new jedi's whine about the grind..
Blah blah...some say bring back perma death ect ect....
I say make a jedi a PVP only prof even padi's are full time overt, make everyone a jedi for all i care even make it a start prof what does it matter really???
fact is most of the new jedi want a glow stick cause it looks cool and thats fine but that means your full time involved in GCW that means your never safe that means you cant hide on endor anymore that means as soon as you log you show up on BH terms that means you just may spawn into cnet and have 5 players from other faction greeting you with invite to clone center and yes every time you die minus them force points that you get by killing players only! no more grind no more hiding till your a knight, make it where the smartest and the most BMF's are jedi and they will be rare agian... i mean the gank squad isnt gonna go away and jedi's arnt gonna go away might as well exploit the two make padi's having to group for survial and let BH's form gank squads lets put the combat in combat upgrade and all them jedi's that want a light saber to kill sevorts all day will either leave or find the prof that will make the game enjoyable to do what they choose to do!
If ya make jedi a super hard prof meaning consent action of some sort or another like what knights have to go through you will see alot of drop off just as i know alot of knights who got more than they wanted by doing so they where only happy as padi's hiding on endor thats why when you see a knight now you know hes gonna be tough cause all the other knights who dont enjoy pvp are pretty much gone!!!
So why Torture people with a long grind? when in fact the highest most will progress is padi cause they dont want the PVP action knights have to deal with. i think its like a trick for most they use nade's macro's whatever it takes to get that Force XP just to get saber and not wanting to do PVP or ever doing PVP in fact i know some who fear PVP so why become a jedi if you will never get passed padi and worry about BH's 24/7 and wont even grind with your friends cause affraid you will be on terms..if ya
know what your getting into and still want to be a jedi all the power to you and the game some really good PVP and i see no reason the burn out good players who would make some good jedi with a long grind leave that to the critter killers!
Message Edited by thepulse on 04-06-2005 12:56 PM
Message Edited by thepulse on 04-06-2005 12:57 PM
Message Edited by thepulse on 04-06-2005 01:07 PM
Elronddd
Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:59 am
#48
yeahh, your idea wouldnt make less jedi, it would just lengthen the time it would take for 238732 jedi to show up. The only real way to make jedi less common is to make it harder to find out HOW to grind it...since all the jedi were killed it would make more sense for people to have to stumble upon the force instead of going through the motions to get to it. This would make it annoying and tedious to try and become jedi, and i personally wouldnt like it.lol but it would definately reduce the number of jedi and make it more realistic...
Iakimo
Thu Apr 07, 2005 8:47 am
#49
So to summarize the three sets of ideas for increasing Jedi rarity, we so far have:
- Increase the length of the Jedi grind: This only delays the inevitable, and adds even more torture on top of the torturous Jedi grind.
- Nerf Jedi to make them less popular: Is this SOE's approach? Time will tell....
- Give all the conventional profs a super-elite/legendary option beyond Mastery: Everyone wins. Players get more challenge and incentive to develop their characters over the long term; the devs get a new carrot-on-a-stick to keep players in-game and spending their cash for renewal of their subscriptions; more people choose non-Jedi career alternatives; and the L337 doobz actually have to earn the right to type, "PWNJOO!!"and quit the game in frustration and go back to playing their hacked Counterstrike toons. #3 for the win!
I was thinking about ways to deal with game balance in the environment. Here's what I came up with:
- Have most of the random spawns occur as normal, but insert an if/then statement into the creature code as follows: IFa Jedi or Legend-level character's attacks occur, THEN the creature is given a chance to enter a new, intensified "Berserk" mode. It becomes tougher and more resistant to some determined types of damage; it gets more HAM and/or partially heals; and it gains faster and stronger attacks. The experience reward for killing a creature that goes berserk increases proportionately.
- Have it so that when a spawn is killed off, the game does another IF/THEN check: IF a Jedi or Legend/level character is still in the area when the site spawns its next group of critters, they have a chance to upgrade to a tougher subtype of that creature. For example, a random Graul Mauler spawn might respawn as Graul Manglers, Frenzied Grauls, Ancient Grauls, or a Graul Marauder.
The game already somewhat balances the environment by ramping downward the difficulty level of creature spawns closer to cities. In addition to these two suggestions, Iwould create a few additional "pockets" of higher-level creatures, along the lines of Dathomir's Rancor Valley. After all, Ben Kenobi did say, "The Jundland Wastes are not to be traveled lightly...." Maybe not all of the Jundland Wastes, but a few hotspots would be nice....
Ultimately, all any RPG is, is numbers. I have x level of skill; my opponent has y defensive ability, generating a damage table N(1), from which results are randomized. If x goes up in such a way that it's too high relative to y, then a good game designer will find a creative way to raise y. As a person who has dabbled with RPG's since the release of Dungeons & Dragons, (and yes, I'm revealing my age!) it doesn't seem too difficult....
lpnix
Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:35 am
#50
LOL when will ppl realise that this game is part of the expanded universe, and that the expandid universe never happened, only the movies happend, the EU is nothing but a extended story of what ifs and in SWG the what if is what if there where more jedi . SWG is not cannon its EU that is what gives them free reign to do what ever they want with in reason, the key is what if
Jedi_Xan
Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:37 am
#51
lpnix wrote:
LOL when will ppl realise that this game is part of the expanded universe, and that the expandid universe never happened, only the movies happend, the EU is nothing but a extended story of what ifs and in SWG the what if is what if there where more jedi . SWG is not cannon its EU that is what gives them free reign to do what ever they want with in reason, the key is what if
of course, it is all movie, so it never really happened either.
LOL!
Shensen
Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:01 pm
#52
AnzelVincir wrote:
Shensen wrote:
If we really wanted to keep jedi rare... we would cook em less if at all...
And the killer rabbit idea would work darnit! Or the black knight....see how desperate we are for content?
You mean like Jedi Tar Tar?
Exactly!
Maybe with some sliced fruit for flavor...mmmm