Force Sensitive Archive

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Darkknight109 wrote:

From a recently-unlocked Jedi Initiate, I will tell you that in the early years, Jedi is no walk in the park. In fact it is by far the hardest profession I have ever been through (and I've been through most of them). You are slow as a sleepy hutt, have absolutely no accuracy, and should you die for any reason (God forbid) at initiate alone you lose about an hour worth of grinding XP. Now some of the Jedi have been consoling me that it gets better, but I am actually rather worried.

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I am very familiar with how difficult it is to become a Jedi. I ground out a number of professions without access to holos, then ended up not getting any lines for free, so I had to grind out boxes. I'm down to the last two of the last tree, and I did most of this without grenades. Despite all of that, I still say any system that is based on an entry filter is inherently flawed.

Everyone knows Jedi are the most popular element of Star Wars. Everyone likes lightsabers. The vast majority of the player base would probably be Jedi if you could just click a button and become one. A sizeable portion of the population is currently involved in a much more difficult process to become one. In the end, no matter how difficult you make Jedi entry, people are going to achieve it. So clearly, at entry barrier is insufficient to maintaining "realistic" Jedi numbers. What are the alternatives then?

1) Hard caps. The only people who like this option are those who don't want Jedi at all, or those who are already Jedi and assume that they'll get to remain so.

2)Increase FS grinddifficulty. Essentially raising the entry bar another notch, the same way they did when they swtiched from hologrinding. The CU might do this by making grinding harder. This is the single most likely option that SOE would undertake, either by decreasing the efficiency of combat xp-transfers, raising the xp required for FS boxes, or some other similar option. This will not solve the problem, really, but it will slow the rate of Jedi entry.

3) Cycle Jedi out of the system: Permadeath. Well, they "tried" it and the Jedi used ForceWhine and now it's gone. It isn't coming back. The only thing MMORPG dev teams do less often then admit they're wrong is correct mistakes.

4) Make Jedi play more difficult, and give everyone a chance to try it. Look, let's face it. If the game is hostile to you, if you have to play more carefully or clone every ten minutes, most people just in it for the flashy saber will give up. So what you do is makethe environment of the game hostile to Jedi. Thisis the only option that allows everyone a chance to play a Jedi, especially casual players, but that creates a disincentive to do so and (theoretically) keep theJedi population low.

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Shensen wrote:

They should introduce a new NPC - Vader's killer rabbit...

It would basically be unbeatable, hit for insane damage, use force powers, and kill any jedi with enough visibility to be hunted by 5 BHs at the same time...it would seek them out and kill them and reset their visibility to zero and cause xp loss of course...kinda like the old man visits, but fuzzy and deadly

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Message Edited by Grungy on 03-31-2005 04:41 PM

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Mrkalador wrote:
Or, there could be an added badge, "The Galaxy Badge"

you could get this after playing for 6 months straight, this could be a requirement to becoming FS, But, you can only start your first quest during Phase 1


6 months of play, random time waiting for phase 1 to come around, 6 phases of FS quests, that would put a huge delay on future jedi.



But, IMO, the above idea from me, Sux LOL

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vinterthoor wrote:
Yeah, you can make Jedi as hard as you want to attain but people will do "the grind" because as far as combat goes Jedi rule pvp and can do most high end content with little trouble.

There is only one way to make Jedi rare. Everyone knows what it is. While jedi remains the most elite combat prof everyone will want it. Make other combat profs more effective than jedi and you'll see the population go down. Other than that there is no solution.

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Actually, Vinterthoor, there are other ways. Here's what I would suggest...

First, to expand on your lead, I wouldcreatea "Legends" system for every elite profession above Master, with high-level proficiencies, certifications, and abilities. I think of this in terms of a Black Belt Karate expert. Yeah, he's good, and he's a master of his craft, but how many 1st-dan Black Belts are legends of the stature of a Bruce Lee? More to the point, how many 1st-dan Black Belts possessed Lee's level of dedication?

This is what I would give the player base: an opportunity (if they choose to)to take their chosen profession to the level of truly legendary proficiency. And I would make that journey every bit as arduous and rewarding as the quest for Jedi Knight. And it is at this rarified level is where players would EARN the skills they need to go toe-to-toe with a fully-realized Jedi Knight. Teras Kasi Masters and Fencers would obtain the Dodge bonuses they need to avoid having their limbs hacked off (a risk that should be as ever-present for melee types as Saber Block currently is for ranged types); Bounty Hunters and Pistoleers would gain a functioning Disarming Shot; Pikemen would gain a Polearm Dervish of diabolical complexity; Commandos would learn how to blanket an area with a blast of flame that even a Jedi couldn't avoid; and Creature Handlers would gain a degree of empathy with creatures of such magnitude that they could control creatures of such power and ferocity that even a Jedi Knight would be given second thoughts. Either that or one of those snazzy Geonosian acklay prods....

Second,I would implementsome sort of "Death of a Legend" system -- not as drastic as the old Jedi Permadeath, but where, when we died and cloned, we would temporarily lose our legendary or Jedi skills until we passed a series of recertifying trials. And yes, it would cut both ways! BOTH Jedi and conventionally-driven Legends would risk the loss of their status, just to be fair.

This set of trials or period of training would last some suitably annoying amount of time to give this "death penalty" a reasonable amount of sting, anywhere from three days to two weeks, depending on the proper "feel" for the idea. It would be modifiable somewhat, depending on how aggressively the player seeks to re-establish his connection with the Force or his finely-honed level of conditioning -- but if the player chooses to do nothing, he loses the ability to get it back. Jedi lose their Force status; Legends lose their edge.

This whole two-tiered systemwould be implemented instead of the Great Saber Block/Saber Damage-Type Nerf. We don't need to make Jedi just another melee class; we need to give the combat professions a way to aspire to legendary status in their own right! And that, my friends, is the ultimate answer to the question of Jedi ubiquity.

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Iakimo wrote:

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vinterthoor wrote:
Yeah, you can make Jedi as hard as you want to attain but people will do "the grind" because as far as combat goes Jedi rule pvp and can do most high end content with little trouble.

There is only one way to make Jedi rare. Everyone knows what it is. While jedi remains the most elite combat prof everyone will want it. Make other combat profs more effective than jedi and you'll see the population go down. Other than that there is no solution.

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Actually, Vinterthoor, there are other ways. Here's what I would suggest...

First, to expand on your lead, I would create a "Legends" system for every elite profession above Master, with high-level proficiencies, certifications, and abilities. I think of this in terms of a Black Belt Karate expert. Yeah, he's good, and he's a master of his craft, but how many 1st-dan Black Belts are legends of the stature of a Bruce Lee? More to the point, how many 1st-dan Black Belts possessed Lee's level of dedication?

This is what I would give the player base: an opportunity (if they choose to) to take their chosen profession to the level of truly legendary proficiency. And I would make that journey every bit as arduous and rewarding as the quest for Jedi Knight. And it is at this rarified level is where players would EARN the skills they need to go toe-to-toe with a fully-realized Jedi Knight. Teras Kasi Masters and Fencers would obtain the Dodge bonuses they need to avoid having their limbs hacked off (a risk that should be as ever-present for melee types as Saber Block currently is for ranged types); Bounty Hunters and Pistoleers would gain a functioning Disarming Shot; Pikemen would gain a Polearm Dervish of diabolical complexity; Commandos would learn how to blanket an area with a blast of flame that even a Jedi couldn't avoid; and Creature Handlers would gain a degree of empathy with creatures of such magnitude that they could control creatures of such power and ferocity that even a Jedi Knight would be given second thoughts. Either that or one of those snazzy Geonosian acklay prods....

Second, I would implement some sort of "Death of a Legend" system -- not as drastic as the old Jedi Permadeath, but where, when we died and cloned, we would temporarily lose our legendary or Jedi skills until we passed a series of recertifying trials. And yes, it would cut both ways! BOTH Jedi and conventionally-driven Legends would risk the loss of their status, just to be fair.

This set of trials or period of training would last some suitably annoying amount of time to give this "death penalty" a reasonable amount of sting, anywhere from three days to two weeks, depending on the proper "feel" for the idea. It would be modifiable somewhat, depending on how aggressively the player seeks to re-establish his connection with the Force or his finely-honed level of conditioning -- but if the player chooses to do nothing, he loses the ability to get it back. Jedi lose their Force status; Legends lose their edge.

This whole two-tiered system would be implemented instead of the Great Saber Block/Saber Damage-Type Nerf. We don't need to make Jedi just another melee class; we need to give the combat professions a way to aspire to legendary status in their own right! And that, my friends, is the ultimate answer to the question of Jedi ubiquity.

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