Force Sensitive Archive
Thread: *** Why Jedi Should Be Removed From SWG ***
Ihareo wrote:
AnzelVincir wrote:
However the FS grinding is nothing more than a blatant and intentional time sink meant to discourage people from becoming Jedi. So the question we must ask ourselves is why? The answer is that they are seriously conflicted as to whether Jedi should even be a part of SWG or not. This is understandable since the SWG community itself has the same confliction.
It's meant to restrict the Jedi to those who really want it. Unfortunately this has the side effect of driving those who don't have what it takes to make it to jedi from the game.
Emphases mine.
Anyhow, all this apparently takes is an inordinate amount of free time to be available. Something that I have liked about the Village system of getting to Jedi is that in part it was gated, and there was a timed aspect to it that made little difference whether someone was 10 hours a day or 10 hours a week to work towards their Jedi. And then, of course, there the filling of the experience is something that favors those with more free time than others, but again, no big deal.
No offense to you, Ihareo, but I find these statements of "have what it takes" or "aren't cut out" to be Jedi distasteful, as if there were some defect of character amongst those who head for Jedi and either take a long time to get there, or leave before reaching it. A true defect of character is shown in a person who logs into an MMORPG 10 hours a day regardless of classes, employment, or interpersonal obligations.Someone who can log in 10 hours a day without detriment to their classes, employment, or interpersonal obligations is what I call fortunate, and is certainly an object of envy. 
If the system should change due to changes in brought in with the CU, I would hope that they took the form of 24 time gated quests, but gated such that you might get two done each phase of the Village. Rather than 15+ weeks, it would be 33+ weeks to get through, and rather than being wholly dependant on the ability to log in and burn time, it would be more for those who are interested in sticking around with SWG for the long haul. Getting to Jedi then is merely a question of a different kind of perseverance; staying with the game and being involved in ongoing quests and story to get to Jedi, vs. making the shorter-term committment and also requiring untold hours of simple grinding, whereever whenever however one should choose to do so.
Jedi itself is quite a long haul of grinding to gain power within it, but there I think it makes perfect sense. A jedi has potential for enormous power that should take some time and practice to develop. Bounty hunters and cross aligned Jedi are then a major concern as well.
Something else I would love to see brought into the game are quest rewards in terms of bonus experience, where moving through the story with it's travel, interaction, and immersion are also rewarded in terms of tangible character development. As they say, dreaming is for free.
AnzelVincir wrote:
SOE/LA obviously doesn’t want players becoming Jedi. It should be removed from the game and here is the proof.
The phases are totally cool
The Village is totally cool
The quests are totally cool
However the FS grinding is nothing more than a blatant and intentional time sink meant to discourage people from becoming Jedi. So the question we must ask ourselves is why? The answer is that they are seriously conflicted as to whether Jedi should even be a part of SWG or not. This is understandable since the SWG community itself has the same confliction.
It's meant to restrict the Jedi to those who really want it. Unfortunately this has the side effect of driving those who don't have what it takes to make it to jedi from the game.
Many of us feel that Jedi don’t belong in SWG given the particular time period in which the game is set. However just as many of us love the idea of playing SWG as a Jedi. This is a difficult situation and any solution that is put forth is destined to be despised by one part of the community or another.
It is as much your buuisness to dictate to me wether or not I can be a Jedi as it is my buisness to dictate to you wether or not you can be a crafter. none.
The current path to becoming a Jedi however is a simple road block more than a solution to this dilemma. Punching (or grenading) thousands upon thousands of rats in the middle of nowhere takes absolutely no skill whatsoever. It has nothing to do with gaming and more importantly has absolutely nothing to do with Star Wars. Therefore they should simply remove Jedi from the game entirely.
But it has everything to do with patience, which is essential to Jedi.
It is a considerable game breaking problem when we have some Jedi that have become so by mastering 5 or 6 professions while other players have become Jedi by mastering over 30 professions and yet a whole other group of players is now forced (get it? ‘forced’) to grind out 225 million XP just to get access to the trials. It’s a game breaking issue not because it’s unfair but because it is a constantly moving target. Every time we log in, every time we check the forums, every time we talk to other players the rules seem to change. This is completely unacceptable.
If your game is ruined by what somone else is doing that doesn't affect you, then you are playing the wrong game. And your 'target' has moved a total of once, with a 6 month warning. There is a big warning on the game box that says "WARNING: Game experience may change" I suggest you read it.
If the Jedi “profession” is to be kept in SWG then it should be a badge of honor. It should be something that is regarded as one of the highest accomplishments of any MMORPG. Jedi should be the reward for completing an extremely arduous and engaging journey that captivates our imaginations in the same manner as did the Holy Trilogy. It should be a journey that requires careful preparation, extreme skill, and quick wits. It should be something that says, “I am one of the most elite players on my server”.
Well, I feel very rewarded myself, and I have gone Jedi using both methods (2 different characters). If you are looking for an elite badge, you will be better served by obtaining some mandalorian armor. But then, that's really hard.
Right now it simply says, “I punched 56,250 rats in the middle of nowhere all by myself”
You forgot: "And did so patiently, thus showing one of the most notable Jedi traits".
Healer4344 wrote:
Anzel i completely agree with your statement but look at the part i highlighted - not every1 has JTL.
AnzelVincir wrote:
MastemaBrother1 wrote:
AnzelVincir wrote:
If the Jedi “profession” is to be kept in SWG then it should be a badge of honor. It should be something that is regarded as one of the highest accomplishments of any MMORPG. Jedi should be the reward for completing an extremely arduous and engaging journey that captivates our imaginations in the same manner as did the Holy Trilogy. It should be a journey that requires careful preparation, extreme skill, and quick wits. It should be something that says, “I am one of the most elite players on my server”.
Right now it simply says, “I punched 56,250 rats in the middle of nowhere all by myself”
While I understand your feelings, I want you to realize that SWG requires no skills at all, it's all click and wait (JTLrequires, for example, more skills)It would be very hard to mesure ''if you're worthy or not'' to bea jedi. Since the system is based on ''click and wait'', the only l33tness that can be mesured is your aptitude to... well... click and wait (AKA as patience).So, to me, Jedi's are teh click and wait l33ts.
What would be a good way to ''select'' the Jedi's, the ''Worthy's''? I dont know. Whateverthe DEVsdecide to do, some guys or gals out there will always do the impossible to get what they want and the fastest way possible,as long as it can possiblybe, they will play until they reach it. Ironically, Power Gamers are making the MMORPG's possible but they're killing them at he same time.
I have to agree with your "click and wait" statements. The other day I was playing a bit of Republic Commando and I thought, "Wow, if they could only incorporate this type of gameplay into SWG." I don't see that happening in the forseeable future but combine it with JTL and it would be really cool.
I've only played the CU for about an hour or so but I can already see how they are trying to make combat more interactive rather than writing a macro and letting it run.
As for who is worthy? Well that's easy. Simply extend out all of the positive aspects of the current system. Ever play KOTOR? The entire game is basically a journey towards Jedi. And the story is super super cool. They just need to add more quests. Complicated quests that involve travelling between planets, maybe even JTL.
Do you really think the answer to, "Who is worthy" should be, "Whoever can punch 57,000 rats"????
True. But right now with the way phases are setup you get to pick which quests you want to do. Each phase has several quests. I'm not saying that you should have to go and buy JTL if you don't want to (although you should 'cause it's totally awesome!) what I'm saying is that there should be more to do than punch rats on Dath.
Again, I'm not complaining about how long the path is. I've been gaming since PONG. I was literally the first kid on my block with an Atari 2600 and later a Commodore64 and I have plenty of patience. I am gringing FS on a daily basis and for the most part it's not killing me. I'm just saying that SWG has so much more potential...
A few peoplementioned it beforeand I have toagree it has alwaysseemed to be more about money in the real world. Alot of people buy the game to become aJedi then they have to pay$15.00 a monthfor the better part of a year to reach that goal. The Jedi professionkeeps people here that otherwise would have moved onto something elsebecause they were bored with the normal professions that take such a short amount of time to master.
As for the Dev'snot wanting anyoneto become Jedi I disagree I think they do if not for the reasonI stated above then for the reason that it still keeps peopleplaying and that keeps thegame alive.I’m completely against the profession being removed even if in the end it was onlya way for SOE to keep making money off us.
murphy7 wrote:
Ihareo wrote:
AnzelVincir wrote:
However the FS grinding is nothing more than a blatant and intentional time sink meant to discourage people from becoming Jedi. So the question we must ask ourselves is why? The answer is that they are seriously conflicted as to whether Jedi should even be a part of SWG or not. This is understandable since the SWG community itself has the same confliction.
It's meant to restrict the Jedi to those who really want it. Unfortunately this has the side effect of driving those who don't have what it takes to make it to jedi from the game.
Emphases mine.
Anyhow, all this apparently takes is an inordinate amount of free time to be available. Something that I have liked about the Village system of getting to Jedi is that in part it was gated, and there was a timed aspect to it that made little difference whether someone was 10 hours a day or 10 hours a week to work towards their Jedi. And then, of course, there the filling of the experience is something that favors those with more free time than others, but again, no big deal.
No offense to you, Ihareo, but I find these statements of "have what it takes" or "aren't cut out" to be Jedi distasteful, as if there were some defect of character amongst those who head for Jedi and either take a long time to get there, or leave before reaching it. A true defect of character is shown in a person who logs into an MMORPG 10 hours a day regardless of classes, employment, or interpersonal obligations.Someone who can log in 10 hours a day without detriment to their classes, employment, or interpersonal obligations is what I call fortunate, and is certainly an object of envy.
If the system should change due to changes in brought in with the CU, I would hope that they took the form of 24 time gated quests, but gated such that you might get two done each phase of the Village. Rather than 15+ weeks, it would be 33+ weeks to get through, and rather than being wholly dependant on the ability to log in and burn time, it would be more for those who are interested in sticking around with SWG for the long haul. Getting to Jedi then is merely a question of a different kind of perseverance; staying with the game and being involved in ongoing quests and story to get to Jedi, vs. making the shorter-term committment and also requiring untold hours of simple grinding, whereever whenever however one should choose to do so.
Jedi itself is quite a long haul of grinding to gain power within it, but there I think it makes perfect sense. A jedi has potential for enormous power that should take some time and practice to develop. Bounty hunters and cross aligned Jedi are then a major concern as well.
Something else I would love to see brought into the game are quest rewards in terms of bonus experience, where moving through the story with it's travel, interaction, and immersion are also rewarded in terms of tangible character development. As they say, dreaming is for free.
What phrase would you preffer? Honestly it's all the same, syntax not withstanding. Wehter it takes time, skill patience or whatever, many people do not have enough of it to make Jedi. And that is sad. I have several friends who only wanted to be a Jedi and when they didn't have enough of whatever it is that you would like me to call it, left the game.
My phrasology isn't meant to imply that Jedi are 'better' in any way, mearly that for whatever reason the road to Jedi is long and hard and not everyone can do it. And that inability has driven more than one person from SWG, and I think that' sad because I miss them.
I think they should change the way you get Jedi from ginding FSXP to something more story orientated. I mean it took many hard years of training to become a Jedi. Grinding...isn't hard just time consuming....and I just don't feel like their is enough of a reward for doing all the FSXP grinding...besides that one big reward at the end Initiate...