Force Sensitive Archive

Thread: New/More FUN way to become a Jedi...

SamusZero
Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:29 pm
#27

Nails1 wrote:
Dude?
Are you trying to make actual sense out of any of this?
It's kind like that movie where at the end the computer plays like 5000 games of tic tac toe with itself and realizes it can't win....


is that Wargames ur thinking of? that was an interesting movie



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Cebre_Opasloa
Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:31 am
#28




Everitt_Cage wrote:



Cebre_Opasloa: At the moment I just dont have the time to address all the different points you made, so I'll do that later, but the one issue I would like to point out how your wrong on is your interpretation of what you think Yoda means when he tells Luke he will be the last Jedi. According to you:


"Last" in this case does not have to mean "the only one", it can also mean "the final Padawan promoted to Jedi". The point is never specified.


Now, here is how you are wrong: We've only been looking at PART of what Yoda said. Yoda didnt just tell Luke he would be the last Jedi, which if he did your theory could be plausible, but he told luke: "After I am gone, the last of the Jedi will you be". Ah Ha! the key to the whole thing! Yoda included HIMSELF in the statement. He told luke that after HE died, Luke would be the last Jedi. Since Luke being the last Jedi could only occur AFTER Yoda died, it obviously wasnt talking about Luke being the last padawan accepted into the order, as that had already happened and had nothing to do with Yoda dying afterwards, but instead could only mean in that context the last OF the order.

Message Edited by Everitt_Cage on 04-14-2005 10:59 PM





I grant you that is pretty much the implication of the statement.


That does not mean Yoda was necessarily being objectively honest, or necessarily knew for sure himself. The character is never portrayed as omniscient. "Difficult to see, the future is."Obi-Wan certainly wasn't being objectively honest when he said "Vader betrayed and murdered your father" when he knew exactly who Vader was.


My point is this, the final battle HAD to be Vader versus himself. Only one of Vader's children could successfully get inside his head and forment enough inner conflict to make him turn back from the dark side and destroy the Emperor. Luke had to be completely committed to that task for it to be successful, which would not be the case if he thought there was someone else he could run off to and solicit help from. Bringing in any other living Jedi if they existed would have made the final fight Vader versus Jedi, and it had to remain Vader versus himself. What Yoda said could have been objective fact, or information presented "from a certain point of view" to serve that end; to put Luke into the proper frame of mind. We can never really know which.


Since we are certainly not going to see the thousands of Jedi alive at the start of the purge all get killedonscreen, the door remains open for some to have survived. It's also true that none of them could have turned Vader.Only Luke or Leia could help make that happen.





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Yterbium
Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:35 am
#29




Nails1 wrote:

Dude?


Are you trying to make actual sense out of any of this?


It's kind like that movie where at the end the computer plays like 5000 games of tic tac toe with itself and realizes it can't win....







Ooooh...don't be discin' wargames, man!



-=Yterbium=-

Active Since June 26th, 2003
Saddly Addicted Player (S. A. P.) since Day One!
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Yterbium
Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:41 am
#30




Watt_4 wrote:
There may not be "Jedi" but there are Force Weilders running amok, and also the Imperial Inquisition is a bunch of Dark Jedi.
Though if you want to stick strictly to canon, Yoda was behind the times ^^.





Thank you!


Exactly right.


Everyone should remember that Jedi are one tradition. The elimination of their order entirely would not have stopped the Force from flowing, nor of others from mastering it.



-=Yterbium=-

Active Since June 26th, 2003
Saddly Addicted Player (S. A. P.) since Day One!
Individuality...heh. Enjoyment...heh. A dev craves not these things.
Yterbium
Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:46 am
#31




Cebre_Opasloa wrote:



No, because of the way the Sith progress ANY new Sith would be a threat to Vader and the Emperor as someone who would seek to replace them.


All Sith are Dark Jedi, all Dark Jedi are not Sith.






All Sith are not dark Jedi.


I keep seeing people say this, and it is just wrong.


The Sith are an Order of their own, just like the Jedi Knights. Some dark Jedi become Sith, it is true, but to be a dark Jedi means you have to have been a Jedi who fell from the Code and was cast out of the order. The Sith Order was even founded by dark Jedi, but that was some many thousands of years in the past.



-=Yterbium=-

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Shensen
Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:34 am
#32




Yterbium wrote:




Cebre_Opasloa wrote:



No, because of the way the Sith progress ANY new Sith would be a threat to Vader and the Emperor as someone who would seek to replace them.


All Sith are Dark Jedi, all Dark Jedi are not Sith.






All Sith are not dark Jedi.


I keep seeing people say this, and it is just wrong.


The Sith are an Order of their own, just like the Jedi Knights. Some dark Jedi become Sith, it is true, but to be a dark Jedi means you have to have been a Jedi who fell from the Code and was cast out of the order. The Sith Order was even founded by dark Jedi, but that was some many thousands of years in the past.





Well that really depends on your point of view. While it is true that the Sith and the Jedi are two different entities and follow opposite teachings. One could say that one who denounces the Jedi teachings and instead follows the path of anger, hate, thirst for power is a Sith since these embody some of the prime teachings of the Sith. There would be no "Dark Jedi"- just Jedi and Sith. The whole "Dark Jedi" term amuses me. So if a Sith decided to turn over a new leaf and convert to the Jedi teachings, would they then be classified as "Light Sith"? You see the contradiction now..."Dark" and "Jedi" don't belong together anymore than Light and Sith do imo.



[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[
Shensen
~-KOG-~
[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[
"Warned you we tried, listen you did not. Now screwed we all will be. Way to go Kenobi." -Yoda
Everitt_Cage
Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:11 am
#33



I agree with you on the 'dark jedi' thing. Though they have been created in the EU and we know what someone means when they say it, in actuality its impossible for a 'dark jedi' to exist.


Explanation: Jedi teachings have NOTHING to do with the dark side, in fact, they are the complete opposite of the dark side. Jedi teachings teach someone to serve OTHERS, while the dark side makes you serve YOURSELF. If a Jedi stops serving others, and begins to use the dark side of the force, which will lead him to start serving himself instead, he then ceases to be a Jedi, as he no longer follows their teachings. And not just the teachings about serving others, as Yoda and Obi-Wan had to go into hiding and couldnt keep up their former jedi duties, but the serving of oneself and embracing anger and hate, emotions which are necessary to use the dark side, would be what marked somone no longer being a Jedi.


So, as you can see, 'dark' and 'jedi' are contradictory terms, and logicaly its impossible for there to be a 'dark jedi'. That is why the ill thought out concept of Dark Jedi exist only in the EU, and not in canon. Even in canon, the Jedi that turned Sith(Dooku and Vader) both ceased to be Jedi and then became Sith(as you cannot be both according to the teachings of both orders). Its amazing the, for lack of a better word, stupidity shown by whatever writer first came up w/ the idea of a dark jedi, since as I've already explained its logicaly impossible for such a thing to exist.


Also, just as you couldnt call someone a smoker if they only smoked once or twice in their life, you couldnt call someone a user of the dark side of the force if they only used it once or twice in weakness, but used the light side 95% of the time. It would be someone embracing, and giving themselves to the dark side which would make them a true user of it, just as if you smoke all the time then you are considered a smoker. That is why a Jedi that may give in to his anger, but later see the error of his ways and never do it again is not a dark jedi. But if a Jedi does give in to his anger permanantly, and use the dark side, then he is no longer a Jedi, according to the very teachings of the Jedi, so for that reason you can never be a user of the dark side of the force(once again, your only a user if you make a practice of it, not do it once in your life) and a Jedi at the same point in time.

Message Edited by Everitt_Cage on 04-15-2005 02:35 PM

Shensen
Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:24 am
#34
Exactly



[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[
Shensen
~-KOG-~
[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[
"Warned you we tried, listen you did not. Now screwed we all will be. Way to go Kenobi." -Yoda
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